Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 July 13

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Automatic Downloads

LarryMac: Thank you for looking, but I think you see what I mean.

code???!!!!!!!

hi... is there any code for myspace so that when you place a video on your profile page the video will play automatically; viewers don't have to press play button? if so.. what is it?/ where/ what website can i copy from?

---

Thanx! Hot F.L.I.P.

You really think people reading your MySpace page wanna have this video blasting at them, regardless of whether or not they have any interest in seeing it? I can tell you that I, at least, absolutely hate MySpace because of stuff like that, and I think it's a fair bet most of your friends would prefer not to see this video every time they view your page. -Elmer Clark 04:25, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

well, that was a bit harsh... but thanks for your bias, i guess.. but before you slap this on my face, you havent heard my reason as to why i wanted the video to automatically play when my page is visited... "it's because i cant find the song on myspace music page so instead of having a music playing on my page, i placed a video in there (of that music).. thats why i want it to play automatically! so other than that... the only thing that i really wanted to know is the code to do that (does anyone know it or not?!)... and seeing this argument just made my mood(pardon my french) shittier than it already is!!!! Hot F.L.I.P.

Why is this so important? If people really want to see it then they'll click "Play." It's not brain surgery. Battle Ape 14:24, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Albert Einstein's Connection with Greenville, SC.

I came across information that Albert Einstein had a son that lived in Greenville,SC. He is also said to have spoken at Furman University, and establishment rather close to Greenville. Is there a reason he's not listed as a signifigant person in the Greenville,SC page? And if not, i would appreciate someone adding it as I am not confident in my ability.

http://frontieregulator.blogspot.com/2005/06/history-of-greenville-county-sc-part_21.html

http://www.metrobeat.net/gbase/Expedite/Content?oid=oid%3A1061

These two reliable sources state that Einstein visited Greenville,SC because his son, Hans Albert Einstein, resided here for a portion of his life. ——————————————— Russell Quarles

While we appreciate the time you took to check this, saying "X visited a city" isn't really cause to consider that person a notable associate of the city. Consider that a standard like that would make every presidential candidate associated with nearly every state capital as part of the campaign trail. Then consider, on the other hand, the associations of the people already listed: taking the first three names as an arbitrary sampling, we find "born in Greenville", "born in Greenville", and "born in a rural county immediately adjacent to Greenville." — Lomn | Talk 03:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Q: financial indecies

were can i find the list of companies that part of major indecies like NASDAQ 100, S&P 500, other world markets. that can be downloaded to Excel with their relative weight in the index.

The same place you might find ?s and ~s. Google is your friend!

After the World Cup

Does anyone know what happens to all the official World cup adverts that were in the host cities during the world cup? There were banners and flags everywhere and they must go somewhere.

That's a great idea . . . I'll go downtown today and try to pick some up, and let you know how I fare. -- Markus, Frankfurt, Germany

Probably thrown away. --Proficient 16:51, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

After the 2002 Commonwealth Games in Manchester, those sort of banners were auctioned off a few months later, together with lots of other memorabilia. -- Arwel (talk) 19:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandalizing Wikipedia

 If...
 
 Art is good.
 -Graffiti is art
 -Graffiti is vandalism
 -Vandalizing Wikipedia is graffiti
 -Vandalizing Wikipedia is art
 Then...Vandalizing Wikipedia is good!
 
 My questions:
 -What do you call this type of sequence of facts that leads up to a fun conclusion?
 -Is it true that "Vandalizing Wikipedia is good"?
 --Chachacha333 11:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe that is refered to as affirming the consequent. --Sherool (talk) 11:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Mostly, it's just logic based on ridiculous premises and fallacious logic. Firstly, you can't gather that because graffiti and vandalizing Wikipedia are both vandalism, they are both art. Secondly, the premise that all art is good and all graffiti is art are shaky at best. And vandalizing Wikipedia is pointless. Crazywolf 11:21, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

OkayChachacha333 11:23, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, I would say "some" graffiti is art, but not all, or even most. StuRat 13:46, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It's a (faulty) syllogism. If graffiti is art, and graffiti is vandalism, then art is vandalism. If people who make vandalism are criminals, and people who make art are artists, then artists are criminals (using previous conclusion). If criminals should be put in prison, then artists should be put in prison. —Daniel (‽) 19:10, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

There is so much false logic, it's ridiculous. --Proficient 21:00, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I remember this type of logic being called "chop logic". GAMES Magazine used to have a sample of it every once in a while. --Joelmills 21:42, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

• On the mafia (game) boards I frequent, that's called Crap Logic^TM. - Mgm|^(talk) 23:06, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I want flags

I want to download all of the world flags at once, in one (free) download. Is there any way that I can download all of the flags that Wikipedia uses (the .svg file ones) all at once? I'd like it to be in a (rather) small download (a couple of megabytes maybe). I want them because I like flags and I wanna find some interesting ones so that I can get ideas for creating my own flags when I create my own country.--Chachacha333 11:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Grutness might be able to help out here. JackofOz 12:12, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Fuff. Just because I'm a vexillologist doesn't mean I know how to download flags in bulk! Grutness...wha? 03:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

You can probably find it using google, but perhaps a couple flags might be variegated in different areas. --Proficient 21:01, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

• I found a load of flags on Smilies Unlimitedhotclaws**==(82.138.214.1 08:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC))

I'd give you a link (290 flags / 1.43meg) on your user page, but you seem not to have one! --Seejyb 19:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Most (all?) country-related wikipedia pages have a national flag image on them. We have a list of countries that could serve as a jumping-off point. Roffle, I just realised that if I'd said this yesterday, you could have 'em all by now. Sorry about that. --Howard Train 05:03, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey Seejyb, I have a userpage, give me that link!--Chachacha333 04:24, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Tampon Usage

I would like to use tampons, but really don't know much about how to insert them. Is there a certain way to put them in. Is sitting on the toilet the best way, or crouching down over the toilet the best way. I've tried them before and just couldn't seem to get them to work. Are they easy to remove? I don't want to leave them in too long and have toxic shock syndrome

1) Make sure that you are female.

2) Follow the instructions on the box.

Also, there are applicator and non-applicator types, depending if having a stinky finger bothers you. :-)

StuRat 13:38, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

That last bit was unnecessary and possibly offensive, StuRat. --Richardrj 13:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't you just love the guy? :) DirkvdM 18:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

inappropriate question

i agree, i also question the validity of this question as questionable in its integrity and would sugggest that the writer seek out a gynecologist if she has questions with regard to her menses.

Yes, there are instructions on the box. Follow them for best results.

It's odd, you know, there have been all manner of sexual and anatomical questions from (presumably) young males and I don't recall anyone ever saying "inappropriate question" or such a tendency to take offence on behalf of others. Do I detect a slightly embarrassed "boys only" atmosphere here, or "systemic patriarchal bias" to use a fancier term? To the original questioner, the first few times, you need to be really relaxed and not in any kind of hurry. Try taking a long bath first, and use a hand mirror. Some people, on the other hand, just never come to accept them. If that doesn't help, take advice from your friends, or try and find a forum not full of embarrassed males. Notinasnaid 17:25, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I can proudly proclaim I didn't find this question the least bit inappropriate. Having said that, I never find anything inappropriate. But then I'm a dirty Dutchman (who was rather looking forward to intimate details).

On a more serious note, it is indeed almost all guys here, which is rather unfair to any woman-questions. Then again, I wonder if there are any women reading those all male questions with red cheeks (in the face, I mean). Cosmic Girl, do you have anything to say on this? DirkvdM 18:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Seeing the lack of helpful information, I asked my girlfriend what advice she had, and I hope her knowledge proves useful.

The best way to insert them depends on the person. Try standing and putting one foot on the edge of the sink or putting the tampon in while sitting on the toilet. If you have problems inserting it, you might try different angles of insertion. They're fairly easy to remove, especially if they aren't dry. It might irritate you a little if they are dry, but not too badly. You should remove them after 8 hours or when they start to leak. TSS isn't all that common, and people I know have accidently left tampons in for weeks or months without any serious problems. But it's best to be safe in situations like this. Crazywolf 23:33, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Am I wrong about there being instructions on the box (the tampon box, that is) ? StuRat 00:39, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

LOL. Yeah, why didn't God anticipate this? DirkvdM 07:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

OK completely *appropriate* question, although I agree that it's not necessarily the best place to get a good answer (as is evidenced by most of the replies).

1. First, StuRat, your stinky finger comment was *completely* inappropriate, and actually really really disgraceful. The last thing a young girl needs is to feel ashamed or stigmatised about touching her own genitalia, or afraid that it's gross.

Sorry, but it is gross. At least gross enough that washing your hands afterwards is necessary. StuRat 03:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but it is NOT gross. First, most vaginas don't stink. Second, those that do are usually because of the chemical imbalance caused by semen, and someone who hasn't even used a tampon probably isn't sexually active yet. Third, young girls are already sensitive and embarrassed enough about their bodies without people making rude, un-called-for comments like yours. And you screwed up my numbering, BTW. But you're right about the hand-washing, which I assure you the vast majority of women do.--Anchoress 04:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

That autonumbering doesn't work very well, a blank line can throw it off, so I rarely use it. And if she thinks her finger is stinky, she's more likely to wash it, which is a good thing. StuRat

Come on, admit it, we're the ones who stink. We just pass it on. For free. Maybe we're natural communists after all. DirkvdM 07:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

2. Second, StuRat, no, there aren't any instructions on the box, they're in the box.

It makes no difference, the instructions are there in either case, so she should read them. StuRat 03:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

3. Third, DirkvdM I don't think you're much better than StuRat. If you want 'intimate details' about a young girl's first experience with tampons, I suggest you read the 'True Confessions' pages of Penthouse.

What prompted this vicious attack ? I'm sure what DirkvdM said was meant as a joke, as was what I said. Don't take everything so seriously. StuRat 03:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not funny to make jokes like that. Do you know that some girls start menstruating at 8 or 9 years old? Some girls start using tampons at 11 or 12? It is ABSOLUTELY not OK to be making jokes about 'intimate details' when discussing a clinical gynocological issue with someone who could be as young as 11 or 12.--Anchoress 04:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Why? A couple I know made a point of not holding back when talking to their children (both girls) including 'dirty jokes' (to a level). As a result they now get compliments by their teachers about their vocabulary. Also, they needed to learn that certain things that were said back home could not be said everywhere, but that is the sort of lesson one always needs to learn. Net result is that they are a lot wiser than their schoolmates. DirkvdM 07:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Well guess what... you're not her parent. And inappropriately and unnecessarily sexualising a conversation about health to an adolescent or younger is NOT helping her make her way in the world, it's just plain INAPPROPRIATE.--Anchoress 07:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

DirkvdM, that wasn't just a dirty joke. That was a point blank insult towards the OP's body. You guys may not think this, but you also haven't been in the OP's position. Modern society already teaches women that their bodies are wrong, and the stinky finger comment compounds that. And StuRat, given that women wash their hands way better than men do, I'd look at some other people's hand-washing habits first. --ColourBurst 22:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The alledged stink is not the result of (lack of) hand washing. You seem to have missed the point. And which modern society are you talking about? In the Netherlands that might have been true until a few decennia ago and to this day in our version of the Bible Belt, but not elsewhere, as far as I'm aware.

You're the ones making a big deal out of this. It started off with an innocent joke. Now the girl is presented with all this discussion over her back. Now she may not dare to come back here again. Another woman lost to Wikipedia. DirkvdM 06:57, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

DirkvdM 06:57, 15 July 2006 (UTC) [unindenting] DirkkvdM, it's the oldest trick in the book for boorish, immature chauvanists to pass off inappropriate sexual comments as 'an innocent joke' and to try to make it the woman's fault for not taking it with good humour. Is that what you are? If not, now's the time to prove it.--Anchoress 07:08, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

It's also one of the oldest tricks for feminists to blame everything bad on men. I particularly liked how you implied that if any woman has a smelly vagina, it must be a man's fault. StuRat 16:05, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Again, you believe that a vagina, even when it's clean, smells bad. That's a subjective call there ("bad" is your opinion and not a fact), and isn't very useful for the OP. That has nothing to do with blame. --ColourBurst 16:34, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Sturat, first, I'm not blaming anything on anybody. I'm not finding fault. It's a scientific fact that malodours in the vagina are due mainly to exposure of the vagina to semen, either due to the decomposing semen, the change in PH (the vagina is acidic and semen is alkaline) causing microbe blooms that the normally acidic vagina protects itself against, or because of sexually transmitted bacterial infections like PID or HPV. The fact remains that, in this discussion, I stood up as a woman, not as a feminist, to protest against inappropriate and insulting comments made by some posters towards another. Call me a feminazi, call me any other names you want, misread my comments, or whatever else you want, but it doesn't change the fact that inappropriate, unhelpful and unneccessary comments were made towards the OP.--Anchoress 02:41, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

And I don't suppose odors are ever caused by decomposing menstrual blood, infection, etc. ? Nope, can't be, it must always be a man's fault. StuRat 00:49, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

4. Fourth, CrazyWolf's and Notinasnaid's answers were thoughtful, appropriate and helpful. To their words I would add that you should make sure it's the smallest size of tampon, that you wait until your flow is heavy, that if you are still dry or tight you consider lubricating the applicator, that if it doesn't work give it a few months and try again, and that to protect against TSS (Toxic Shock Syndrome) you always choose the smallest tampon appropriate for your flow, never use a tampon when you're not menstruating, and you change them often. And a last piece of advice; start NOW to ignore the dumbasses who can't answer a simple question without insulting you or bringing up their own sexuality. You'll be doing yourself a BIG favour.--Anchoress 01:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

My last piece of advice, always have a sense of humor about life, or you will end up full of hatred, and be unpleasant to be around, as well. StuRat 03:14, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Hear, hear! DirkvdM 07:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

To StuRat and DirkvdM: we allow a bit of fun on the reference desk when people ask stupid questions, but please think twice before making fun of someone asking a serious question about a potentially sensitive issue.-gadfium 08:51, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Where were we making fun of her? We were just having some fun and then it got turned into something it wasn't. Of course we should be the wiser ones and stop this pointless discussion. I now notice that StuRat has already done that. ... StuRat? ... Hey, StuRat ... Ok, I'll be off too then. DirkvdM 07:06, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to interject something here. Don't assume it was a young girl writing in. Often times questions like this will be posed like this as the writer obtains sexual satisfaction in the response. I've had patients actually write in to magazines and newspaper advise columns for such thrills. for such response for their own personal pleasure.

Zeenat Aman

I am a great fan of the erstwhile leading lady of Hindi Films, Zeenat Aman.I would like to correspond with her or atleast speak to her. How can I get her postal address/ phone number?Ihave tried the net and film magazines but no luck. Can anyone help me out? sumal 13:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Famous people tend to keep those kinds of detail private, precisely because they don't want to speak to or correspond with fans. You'll be very lucky to find the information you are looking for. Your only chance is to find out who her manager or agent is, and write nicely to her c/o them. --Richardrj 13:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

If you go to http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0023868/contact and click on "Click here for a free trial!", you might get her contact information (although more likely her agent's contact information), I don't know if you are required to continue with the "free trial" after the trial period is up, though. User:Zoe|^(talk) 01:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

name that tune

Could someone please tell me who sang "it's got to be me?" Does anyone know the words? thanking you in advance.

Perhaps the song that you are after is I've gotta be me. It has been performed by a number of people, a well known version was by Sammy Davis, Jr. Lyrics can be found here.--Melburnian 13:53, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

thank-you for your help

why is there such a stigma against homeschooling in america?

the libs are always complaing that there isn't enough money going to public schools, wouldn't reducing the number of students actually be a BETTER thing then?--Crbbydemds 14:21, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

the standard of education provided by parents is often not up to the standard of most schools. therefore the education recieved is inferior to that of publically schooled people. Also, home schooled pupils often get given miss leading information due to a parents views on a subject, where as in a classroom, they may hear the teachers views, but will also hear the views of the other ppupils and will get different views from different teachers.193.115.175.247 15:01, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Looking over at Science, why do I suspect somebody has changed names? --Zeizmic 15:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Part of the reason for having schools in the first place is so that children are exposed to ideas which their parents dont like! So they can make their own mind up later on as individuals and not necessarily follow their parents' beliefs {however sincerely held). Jameswilson 23:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Homeschooling is often identified with cults and ultra-fundimentalist beliefs, many times for good reason. Kids need to be exposed to things their parents don't like. --mboverload@ 07:32, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• Also,home schooling hampers socialisation with their peers. hotclaws**==(82.138.214.1 08:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC))

Hotclaws, are there any stats on that? Cuz I'd actually heard the opposite.--Anchoress 11:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

How could the opposite be true? Surely children in school will have more contact with their peers than a child at home. In school, children are together for a larg part of each day, while home schooled children cannot spend that time with other (schoolgoing) children. -- Ec5618 11:15, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Spending time with your peers is not synonymous with socialisation, particularly when most of the time you spend with them is either completely structured (classroom time spent at a desk listening to one adult speak or working alone), or completely unstructured (essentially unsupervised play time). Most homeschooled kids spend significant, one-on-one or small group time with - gasp! - not only a bunch of kids their own age, but kids of all ages and a wider variety of adults too. This is not every homeschooled child, mind you, but the majority of them. Apparently - gasp! - children develop better socialisation skills interacting with - and modelling - adults than interacting with their peers.--Anchoress 21:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Why not just look it up and stop guessing? This study suggests that homeschooled children have better socialization skills than other children. The results were significant, and there are other studies that are mentioned that I am too lazy to look up. --Crazywolf 19:39, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

formatted to remove yelling -- Ec5618 21:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Do you know if they (and other studies have) controlled for economic variables and the like? I'd imagine that the children that are home-schooled are predisposed to being at the higher portions of economic ladder? I'd also imagine that given this the children would have more structured environment to learn proper socialization skills, e.g. they may be in the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts, attend summer camp, and the like.--droptone 09:13, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Not a convincing reference, but then I do not believe that simple end-result analysis would be worthwhile without looking at the circumstances of the different environments, and which kids are "better suited" to each kind of teaching. The answers are not yet available, it seems. The stigma (presumably referring to an opinion that home-schooling per se is inferior or bad) does seem to be more of a social perception than a scientific fact, so the why would have to be answered by interviewing those who hold the opinion, rather than by looking at scientific studies involving the kids themselves. Something like: "A study comparing persons' opinions of home schooling with established facts, and posssible reasons for the discrepancies."? That is really what the questioner asked, but I find no answers. In my own social experience, the success of the education often seems to depend much on what input the parents have; in some cases one finds oneself wishing that the children could get away from their parents' oppressive presence and mingle with some peers, in others one senses that the peer interactions or teachers at a public school have damaged a sensitive young soul, with the parents being unavailable or incapable of rectifying the problem. --Seejyb 22:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

When I was in school, "socialization" meant getting one's head stuffed in the toilet. --Serie 23:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

There's also considerable scepticism that parents, and particularly the type of parents who homeschool their children, have the skills to effectively teach their children material that they may not understand particularly well themselves. Even avoiding controversies about biology for a moment, very few parents would have the ability to teach mathematics, English, history, and the visual arts (to take a subset of what you might like a student to learn about) to a high school standard.

An Australian teacher who writes a blog wrote a post a little while ago explaining his big concerns about a major change to the education system he will teach in; children from the ages of 13 to 15, who currently have different teachers for each subject, are to be moved into one class with the one teacher providing most lessons. Unfortunately, very few of the teachers are sufficiently trained to teach the entire curriculum to a satisfactory standard; for instance, many of the English teachers are inferior mathematicians to many more gifted 15-year-olds. Compare this with homeschoolers who may have no formal training whatsoever. --Robert Merkel 23:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Many homeschoolers use prepared curricula or teacher-approved course outlines so teaching is not entirely dependant upon parental ability. Rmhermen 01:15, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

But having material created for you does not help TEACH the material. I remember many teachers in high school that surely knew the material, for example one had a masters in mathematics, but still weren't the best teachers. It takes different skills to be able to teach someone the material than just personal understanding (and this assumes the parent actually grasps what is being taught). Sure it is possible to teach a child based on material prepared by someone else, but that does not mean it is the best option or even a relatively good one.--droptone 09:17, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Following the original poster's reasoning, having no public school students at all would be the BEST thing. Well, at least it would help with the budget deficit... Clarityfiend 16:24, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

What is the name of this cryptid?

I remember reading an article (I think it was a stub) about a bizarre European cryptid. I can't remember much about it, except that it had a two-word name, was headless, and was very violent. It might also have been made of metal or something. It was very strange. I think it may have been from Finnish or Swedish folklore. Does this seem familiar to anyone? Bhumiya (said/done) 15:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The only headless one I can find is the Irish dullahan. Did you look through the list of Cryptids?--Shantavira 16:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I've gone through it, but it isn't there. I'm afraid the article may have been deleted. It contained an image, I recall. But it certainly wasn't Irish. It was a bizarre creature, containing fire or something, and I know it was partially metal, with claws or blades on its arms. It was a recent thing, more of an urban legend than a piece of folklore. It's driving me crazy, though. Bhumiya (said/done) 17:12, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Aha! It's the Clutchbone. We used to have an article on it, but it must have been deleted. It shows up here, though. Bhumiya (said/done) 17:23, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Interesting, and a neat name. Apparently it was deleted because it was unverifiable, as cryptids tend to be. Perhaps you should recreate the article with some references.--Shantavira 06:30, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

That might be difficult. I can find next to nothing about it on Google. Bhumiya (said/done) 06:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

What are the bendable stick figure toys made out of?

I went to a conference and we received a toy everyone is calling a 'bendable'. It’s a small 3-4 inch stick figure that can be bent over and over again in any position but never breaks and the feet and hands have magnets in them. I found a company that produces something similar called 'bendables', (www.hogwildtoys.com).

I’m trying to figure out what they are made of, is it rubber, plastic, metal with a coating? I sent hogwild toys a note but never heard from them. I would love to find who manufactures this material and what it’s composed of.

Any ideas? Thanks!

try http://www.hogwildtoys.com/contact.html companies are sometimes very happy to help. Jon513 15:45, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

"The Benders are durable plastic coated wire characters that have magnets in their hands and feet." [1] Wendy Bender watches over all my London based wikipediaing, from her place atop the hole punch that sits on my monitor. But what gauge of wire & how many strands is another question entirely. I have not the heart to dissect her. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Note that pipe cleaners have rather similar characteristics. StuRat 20:22, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I've pulled similar things apart before. It's usually just two thin pieces of (maybe aluminum?) wire, spaced a milimeter or two apart. This allows the limb to bend in one direction, but not so easily in the other, thus simulating a knee/elbow joint. However, these things may just contain a single thick wire, since they are meant to bend in all directions. Bhumiya (said/done) 03:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

epoch o civilization

If one looks at history it is clear to see that on great civilization lasts forever as can be seen in the lost cities in south east asia, as well as south and central america. The Romans i am sure though thier culture and civilization would last forever, as did the egyptians. Now, some civilizations left monuments behind that would last for milenia. An example of this is the pyramids. Now noting this and how much knowlege can be lost though such a drop in a society, i propose we in the technilogical age leave something behind, not only to say: We were here. But also to try and preserve some of the knowlege we have gained. So, my question is how would you propose we save all our knowlege such as electricity, spirituallity ect ect ect. and have it last millenia. or just comment on my observation. I propose: thousands of stone tablets inscribed with various knowlege and buried along with a rosetta stone type artifact beneath a new pyramid build some where other than egypt. what is your sujestion? sorry for such a long question 193.115.175.247 15:45, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

That's a great idea. I think you should start digging now, before the apocalypse hits us. We are clever enough now to make big artificial diamond tablets, rather than stone, which would last longer. Proto::type 15:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

beautiful idea! diamond would last longer but are fragile and crumble easily and who would pay for it? come on people this is for ALL of us.193.115.175.247 16:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

lol - we're building it right now - it's called WIKIPEDIA!!! Cool, huh? Of course, if the apocalypse hits, there's no guarantee that the wikipedia servers will survive, so we have to keep making CD versions of wikipedia. Perhaps we should launch a few hundred into stable near-earth orbits! That would be cool. We'd have to launch some radiation-shielded intel chips into orbit too, and maybe a few copies of windows XP, because there's no guaranteeing the next civilization will have compatible logic systems. --Bmk 17:15, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

If we want to impress those future archaeologists, we sure shouldn't let it run on msWindows. It'll probably crash. What impression would that leave? And since Wikipedia is a great example of worldwide human cooperation we should use an OS that was built the same way: Linux. Anyway, it would have to be a complete system that somehow starts itself when uncovered because we can't know what kind of knowledge those people will have. (Or if they will be people, for that matter.) But a computer system is way too volatile. Stones (or diamonds) would make it way too big. Books will do. But not on modern paper. Old paper is much more durable (though I can't remember why). But that doesn't last too long either. Plastic might be a good choice.

As for the rosetta stone. That helped because it had the same text in different languages, one of which was known, so that's how the other languages could be deciphered. But we don't know what languages the discoverers might understand. Maybe we should make a translation into esperanto or some other logical language. Or just do the whole thing in esperanto and forget about the other languages. This is an intriguing thought. How does one make sure that some other, unknown, civilisation understands what you're trying to say? Was this solved in some way with the Voyager Golden Record? DirkvdM 18:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Good luck with the product activation on Windows XP after civilisation has fallen.-gadfium 05:45, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I think a likely scenario is a nuclear war or pandemic that kills off almost the entire population. This would bring about the need to preserve all human knowledge until the population recovered enough to use it. I would think they would still speak a language close enough to modern languages that they could understand us. Preserving the knowledge where it could be accessed, but not destroyed, would be tricky. Perhaps a small nuclear reactor in a mine with the data could send power and info to terminals displaying the info on the surface. That way, if the terminals were destroyed, the data would still be safe until some future generation dug it up. StuRat 20:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah! The Time Machine thingie! --Zeizmic 21:23, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Cool, the Morlocks can operate the reactor. StuRat 00:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Serious answer =D: They have recently made a material 10x stronger than diamond that's apparently pretty cheep. Wrap it in hundreds of layers of whatever kevlar we have at the time, and put a few layers of ultra-reflective foil around it. Don't ask me how you'd "encode" it onto the tablets, or allow alien civilizations tgo read it, but the ONLY place to reccoverably store something that you want to last forever is in in multiple orbits of multiple planets. Uranus would probably be a good pick, the solar system will continue to exist even after the sun has collapsed (in the beginning expanding, engulfing Earth and making Mars even a crappier place to live in the process). --mboverload@ 07:29, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, we were only talking about bridging a "dark age" gap a few hundred or thousand years long, not billions of years, until the Sun dies. And we were talking about future humans reading the info, not aliens. StuRat 23:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Anything left on Earth is vulnerable. If you TRUELY want to preserve something, put put it in space. --mboverload@ 00:24, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

They are, they have are launching a satelite into space that will return in 50000 years, you can post messages to the future via the satelite, here [2], but they dont have time travel, I posted my co-ordinates and told them to pick me up a few days ago, no response so far, :-P Philc _T^E_C^I 00:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

KEO? Philc _T^E_C^I 00:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

ok, so marble tablets placed under a pyramid build in the Americas. But who would fund it? how would one go about organizing something like this?193.115.175.247 16:02, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

starter motor

i purchased a replacment starter motor for my motorcycle and found it was turning the wrong way, how do i change the direction of thr motor

thank you in antisipation dave tucker

Would it not be best to return it for the correct motor? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure you haven't simply connected the electric supply the wrong way? DJ Clayworth 16:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It's best to contact the manufacturer and not risk injury or a broken mechanism. --Proficient 04:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Plug the battery in the other way round. Dear me... Philc _T^E_C^I 00:20, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Orchid Classification using foliage

Despite the plethora of data on orchids, I'm still having difficulty "typing" a couple of my orchid plants. Unfortunately, virtually all the visual references to orchids focus on the flowers, often to the exclusion of the stems and leaves. The thing that seems to distinguish these two plants is more in the basic plant and less in the flower. Can anyone point me to a source?--67.188.185.59 16:11, 13 July 2006 (UTC)--67.188.185.59 16:11, 13 July 2006 (UTC) Thanks

• Royal Horticultural Society? They have a website. hotclaws**==(82.138.214.1 08:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC))

Adding an article rather than editting one

Hello,

I am a campaign manager for a man running for municipal office in Toronto, Ontario. One of our opponents (Adam Vaughan) has a listing in Wikipedia and we want one too. I know that you can edit an entry, but can you add a new one? My candidate's name is Desmond Cole (www.desmondcole.to). I can be reached at [email removed per instructions at top of page].

Thank you, Geordie.

Hello Geordie - to add new articles to Wikipedia, one must have an account. It doesn't cost anything and takes almost no time to sign up. Bear in mind that articles need to portray a Neutral Point Of View. --LarryMac 17:51, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

(after edit conflict) Yep, there are a couple ways to add new entries. Easiest is to simply sign up for an account here (free) and then follow the instructions at Help:Starting a new page to create the new page. The second way is to go and post the new page request on the articles for creation page, where we'll review it, and if it's suitable will create the page for you. However, before attempting either of these you have to keep in mind that in order for the page to be created (or kept, if you create it yourself) you have to meet certain criteria of the encyclopedia. The page has to assert the notability of the person, and has to be written from a neutral point of view. Wikipedia is a forum for learning, not a political soapbox to use as a campaign tool. --Maelwys 17:53, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

(after three edit conflicts)In order to add an article you would first need to create an account. This can be done by clicking the "Log in/Create an account" link at the top right of the page. After that, see Help:Starting a new page. Although, please don't think of Wikipedia as an advertising medium. We endeavour to stay neutral. You may want to read over the neutrality policy as well as WP:VAIN which talks about writing yourself or someone you are closely associated with. Dismas|^(talk) 17:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Finally, keep in mind that if your candidate is not notable (see WP:N), there's a good chance that it'll be deleted. Please use independently verified sources to write the article. Oh, looks like it's being considered right now. --ColourBurst 23:54, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Also keep in mind that you will no have no control over the article once it is created. It is quite possible that imformation harmful to your campaign can end up in the article. If it is verifiable and significant you should not remove it (and if you do, others will reinsert it). Jon513 18:57, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I live in Toronto and shall follow this with interest. An entry in the Wiki is a 2 edged sword, especially with politicians. --Zeizmic 19:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes! I found a cited controversy for Vaughan! Mel Lastman hates him! He now meets the criterion for notability. I wonder about this other guy. --Zeizmic 20:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Before you create the article, I would recommend you read the proposed policy Wikipedia:Candidates and elections and the sample articles linked to on that page. -- Mwalcoff 23:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Looking for very very repetitive Japanese Power Rangers-like show

Before Power Rangers became quite big, I used to watch a show (as a kid of course!) on French tv (TFI) : they would broadcast a lot of dubbed Japanese stuff. Of course I didn't understand much as I didn't know French at that time.

There was this japanese show (the actors looked Asian, and considering the Japanese genre it's safe to say it is Japanese) that was located near a rocky beach, and every episode a monster would pop up. Three teenagers (I think one was a girl) would always change in superheroes in red, black and yellow costumes. In the end, they would always (and I mean always!!) jointly aim a huge cannon at the monster and fire, however when the monster was nearly dead, he would always get a boost from his boss or something, making him grown into a giant as well. Then the heroes would always summon some robots/vehicles and with that they would crush the monster.

This may sound like Power Rangers, but it wasn't, and I am quite sure it isn't one of those Japanese shows the Power Rangers creators took footage from either. I do think that at some point in the series, they met two other guys (who also owned their own robots/vehicles) and they sticked around (I think all the robots could merge together).

So does anyone have an idea what this was? Thanks Evilbu 18:02, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll keep my eye out for it, and if I see it, I will reply with the name of the program. Google seems to suggest that there is a Japanese Power Ranger version. --Proficient 21:15, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It's going to be tough, because there an inordinate amount of sentai shows (Power Rangers isn't Japanese; it's a remake from Saban and Levy, now part of Disney.). Also as unfortunately, what you quoted is practically the sentai formula and many shows of that category fit your description. Could you give us more information? Or you can just use JapanHero, it has a pretty comprehensive list. The only distinctive thing I noticed is that you mention only three protagonists instead of five (the formula is five). The only sentai show that matches that description is Sun Vulcan. --ColourBurst 23:46, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean G Force (anime)? HERE is a picture. They originally had 3 members, although the crew grew over time.--Anchoress 00:36, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I doubt it. From Evilbu's description it's not an anime, which rules Gatchaman right out. --ColourBurst 02:19, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I will give more information (this time I will really get into detail). As I said most actions took place near a rocky beach. In the beginning there were three heroes. About the cannon : they would stand next to each other, and then the cannon would actually appear( being teleported) between them. First it was transparent and then ! it was there and they were holding it together. About the vehicles : I think the three heroes had a separate vehicle, and those three could merge. However, I am not sure, it could also be that they one big vehicle in common. However, in some later episodes, two other heroes would appear (I don't remember them having a true own colour), both male, and they definitely both had their own vehicle. I think those two new ones could fuse together, and that it was also possible to merge all of the heroes' vehicles as well. Those two heroes sticked around then. I remember when they were introduced one of them did something, and when he came out of his vehicle, the other new guy for some reason slapped him?? And now I am really going crazy : there is an episode where a lady joins them, and she didn't look asian, she looked European. I asked another guy, and he said he had seen that too, and he claimed it was actually Dorothée, the host from French television show Club Dorothée( which was the immensely long show in which all Japanese stuff on French television like DBZ was cramped together) making a cameo. I always found that weird, probably that show wasn't even made at the time of the French broadcast, and even still, a French host making a cameo in a Japanese action show for kids, I don't think so.

O, and as I said, very very repetitive. Really Power Rangers seemed full of variation compared to this (in Power Rangers, they would sometimes fight the putties unmorphed, they would sometimes beat the monster withot the monster growing, they wouldn't always use that Sword coming from heaven) Does this help? Evilbu 02:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Do keep in mind that Power Rangers was a conglomerate of edited super sentai shows and therefore would mix them around; this is probably what accounts for the "variety". The shapes of the vehicles would be very useful (were they animals like lions or falcons or were they airplanes or bullet trains?) Choujuu Sentai Liveman also had three protagonists in the beginning and two males that came later on, but they used a cannon to make the monster big; but I think this is the one, because Dorothée does indeed makes a cameo in this series. So yeah, that's my answer for you. --ColourBurst 02:31, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Here is the Liveman cannon. --ColourBurst 02:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Dorothée did act in episode 30, surprising as it sounds. [3] shows her as "guest star" (and not as "Doctor Dorothée"). I'm guessing that because Asahi had a TV deal with TF1 at the time, she was brought in specifically for her club. --ColourBurst 03:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Unless Dorothée has appeared in other series, I think it is safe to say it is that. [[4]] is a link to that same site, containing more pictures. I seem to have been wrong about the colors of the three original heroes though. Can you make out which ones were the two vehicles of the two nex guys, because as I remember they were not animal robots, just vehicles. Isn't Wikipedia great. For like 11 years, more than half my life, I have been wondering whether or not that really was Dorothée. How bizarre! She just spoke French then as it was only intended for a French dub broadcast in France anyway? But wasn't that particular episode one of those in which the the transition from three to five heroes was being made, so that would make the episode relevant to the Japanese public as well wouldn't it? I didn't know any other Wikipedians were familiar with the Club Dorothée phenomenon:). Evilbu 12:17, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Unpassed UN Security Council Resolutions

Where can I find the list of UN Security Council Resolutions that didn't pass. I know there's a lot of them that have been vetoed. CG 19:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Here [5] is a list of resolutions that have been vetoed by the US. In my quick search I couldn't find a list of all vetoed resolutions. Digfarenough 19:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Adrenaline

Hi, i would like to know if, and how, someone can raise the level of adrenaline(epinephrine) in their body, by some kind of drug or medicine?--Captain ginyu 20:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, you can inject yourself with it, which is actually done to treat anaphylactic shock. Or you could just exercise or get someone to startle you. —Keenan Pepper 20:50, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

• Go on a rollercoaster. No better source of adrenaline (apart from injection, but a lot safer). - Mgm|^(talk) 23:01, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Amphetmines mirror many of the effects of epinephrine through sympathetic nervous system activation, but for a much longer period of time. They also have other effects, however. Crazywolf 23:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

They can release their own adrenaline through various means. --Proficient 04:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Using Rifles at School

At my school, children from the age of 13 (year 9) in the CCF are trained in the use of rifles. We do not get to use any automatic weapons, and we are only allowed in the prone position (lying down). However, it strikes me that allowing children to use weaponry, even when in a controlled environment, is stupidly dangerous (not that I'm complaining...) What are the relevant laws (UK)? How can they do this? —Daniel (‽) 20:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The main relevant law is the Firearms Act 1968, but there are a bunch of others - Firearms (Amendment) Act 1994, Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997, and a number of statutory instruments such as Statutory Instrument 1997 No. 1535 (C.60). There are also firearms provisions in various Criminal Justice & Public Order Acts, such as that in 1994, the Criminal Justice Act 2003, &c. I can't find an online copy of the 68 act, but know it has sections such as 22(2) which makes it an offence for a "Person under 14 having firearm in his possession, without lawful authority - (Group I)". Most of the age related sections deal with possession, or "having with him" a firearm or air-gun. All of which points to the law not legislating absolutely against the use of weapons by minors, except perhaps by stipulations made in the firearms certificate under which the weapon is held. And that certificate may well forbid its use by minors. And if so, I'd be reasonably sure that the licence under which the military possesses weapons does not restrict their use by cadets, irrespective of age. But as you'll see, there's a fair amount of speculation in this answer. The Metropolitan Police have a page on firearms & age. Who knew a person under 14 could hold a shotgun certificate? Scary. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Stupidly dangerous? Given two children who may at some later point come into contact with a firearm which may or may not be loaded, which one will be more dangerous? The one who has received training on the proper way to handle, treat, and unload a firearm, or the one who has never been trained whatsoever and has no idea what to do?

The trained one, I suppose. But how would such a situation arise? Pretty unlikely scenario. DirkvdM 07:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I once saw a documentary showing Armenian kids in Nagorno Karabach, assembling weapons in class (each day!) to prepare for an Azeri return. I was quite shocked , and this is a war zone. So I think the idea is really weird, is your school unique in the western world concerning that matter?Evilbu 02:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Two countries that spring to mind are Cuba and Israel (and Palestine if you count rocks as weapons). Cubans are trained at (guerrilla?) warfare from early childhood (always ready for war). And I believe something similar happens in Israel (always at war). But a separate school in a contry at peace is indeed weird. DirkvdM 07:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

While not familiar with this particular situation cited by Dbmag9 my understanding is it isn't the school giving rifle lessons but the Cadets operating through the school as a useful distribution channel. I'd expect that either this training goes on after school hours just using the school as a base, or that the training is carried out by Cadet instructors during a timetabled lesson available only to Cadet members. I doubt very much if the rifle training would be open to the whole school.

On the issue of whether this is "stupidly dangerous" I'd agree with the implied comments of the anonymous poster above that it is better to know how to handle potentially lethal tools/weapons safely than not to. I take the view that those with an attraction or interest in guns (which could be generalised as most teenaged boys at some time or another) are benefited by getting an instruction in how these weapons actually work, the respect you should show when handling them, and the best ways to handle, transport, store and use them in safety. In addition to the obvious benefits above it also tends to remove the mysticism and attraction which leads youngsters to illicitly seek out guns (often replacing it with an interest in shooting as a sport). Nowadays through TV everyone knows how to fire a gun and with a little experimentation can discover how to reload or remove cartridges, with the growth in easy availability of firearms (particularly handguns) in the U.K. I'd say it is better that the kids at your school are taught a more mature approach to and understanding of firearms rather than trusting them to behave responsibly if they are ever faced with (or seek out) access to a gun.AllanHainey 11:03, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

At my school at least, the CCF operates after school using the school as a base. We are taught things such as weapon handling, cleaning and dismantling at the school, but only fire the weapon (or indeed go anywhere near ammunition) at a proper MOD owned establishment (such as a TA barrack or an RAF base). After firing you have to put down the number of shots you have fired and how many you have been exposed and sign it (I think this is more for the exposure to lead than anything else though). After this, you have to take an oath that basically states that you have no rounds on your person (be they empty or not). However, before we can be taught anything about how to use a weapon, the teacher has to pass a certain test and even then can only teach us up to a point. --80.229.152.246 16:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

You might be interested in our article at Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps. User:Zoe|^(talk) 02:23, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

AllanHainey, you say "it is better to know how to handle potentially lethal tools/weapons safely than not to". That is ludicrous. It's so ludicrous I can't say why. You explain this to me. How can that be a good thing? You say they should know "the best ways to handle, transport, store and use them in safety". How is this useful knowledge if they will (hopefully and most probably) never get into contact with them? Or do they where you're from? Do guns lie around there? I've never seen a gun in muy life and I don't think anyone I know ever has (except for those who have been in the army or the underground in WWII).

Them having some interrest in guns at some point is a stupid excuse. They'll probably wonder about heroin too at some point, so let's let them have a shot at that too. DirkvdM 07:08, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

A lot of kids a fascinated with the mysterious and unknown, thinking that (say) firing a gun will be a life-changing thrill. Letting them fire actual guns will take some of the mystery out of it. Anyway who says that we hope no kid will ever get in contact with a gun? Some will go into the miltary, some may take up target shooting. Unlike heroin, guns can used in a perfectly safe way if you know what you are doing. DJ Clayworth 18:49, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

The CCF (Combined Cadet Force) is a part of the school, and everyone in year 9 has to go through it - after that it's optional. It is run after school ends, but it is not done by a seperate establishment. We are allowed to fire the weaker rifles (I don't know what they're called) in the school's range, but as someone said above we have to make an oath before and after (that we haven't taken any rounds etc.). —Daniel (‽) 14:24, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I was in the CCF as school and learned to fire a rifle at around age 13. It's not dangerous at all, if properly superpvised by trained adults. This is born out by the statistics of gun accidents in CCF corps, which is staggeringly low. I certainly never heard of one, then or later. One editor clearly pointed out that there is no absolute law against the user of firearms by children subject to appropriate controls. In addition children in the CCF are technically part of the Armed Forces (look it up - they are!) and as such are exempt from a number of regulations that would apply if they were not. In my experience CCF corps almost never do anything that would be illegal if they were not part of the military, but I doubt there would ever be an actual legal problem. DJ Clayworth 18:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

rape + incest

why do people always give the condition of "rape and incest" when talking about abortion? Is the "incest" in this case a subset of rape? I assume they're not referring to consentual-incest... -Steve

Certainly they don't always seriatim use the two terms. They are different. If they are talking about rape and incest when pertaining to abortion, they probably mean that a woman was raped by a relative and someone wants an abortion. --Proficient 21:19, 13 July 2006 (UTC)]

I'd imagine the reason they seperate those two actions is that they are different in the types of nonconsensual sex that occurred. Incest, by which they mean (or I take them to mean), sexual relations between two people inside the same family with one of the members being above the age of consent and the other below it. This is different from rape in that it is generally assumed in rape that the non-consensual nature of the sex comes from the forcefulness of one of the participants whereas incest (narrowly defined above) is nonconsensual only because we have created an age of consent. So the each of the participants in the incestual relationship may claim that the relationship is consensual, but legally it would be categorized as nonconsensual.--droptone 08:16, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Some of the probably are talking about consensual incest too, incest (and more specifically inbreeding) can do nasty things to the genes of the poor child. Plus, the cultural view of incest is highly negative and the stigma would follow the kid forever. Emmett5 21:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

To be more scientific, incest or inbreeding don't create bad genes, but the offspring of such matings are more likely to have a pair of such genes by receiving one from each parent. In the case of recessive genetic disorders, two copies are needed for the gene to be expressed. StuRat 23:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Another possibly negative effect is the magnification of traits. For example, if both parents have one normal ear size gene and one (rare) huge ear size gene and thus have large, but not huge, ears, their offspring have a 1 in 4 chance of having two huge ear genes and thus having huge ears. When you multiply this by all the genes a person has, they are more likely to have some "extreme" characteristics than the offspring of unrelated pairings. Of course, some of these extreme traits might be good, like extremely high intelligence. StuRat 23:13, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It's strange to single out incest as a special case in which an abortion is acceptable, as though other conditions are less genetically damaging. If it occurs as part of a rape, why not simply count it as rape? If it is somehow consensual, then to terminate the fetus is essentially a form of eugenics, and scarcely different from aborting a fetus with Down syndrome. It seems to be a blatant case of wisdom of repugnance. The birth defects associated with inbreeding are not necessarily worse than those associated with any other genetic disorder, yet because they have come about at the result of a distasteful practice, they acquire a repulsive tinge. Bhumiya (said/done) 06:30, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

When people talk about incest in this context, they generally mean an older man (father, uncle, older brother) with a young girl (12, 13, 14) - in short, what is ultimately child molestation. So, yes, it's a subset of rape - statutory rape, to be precise, of a particularly abhorrent variety. They are generally *not* referring to two related adults; the necessity for an abortion in these cases implies the molestation. So I don't think it really has much to do with birth defects. zafiroblue05 | Talk 01:10, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, take it where you can get it is my motto =D --mboverload@ 07:22, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll warn your sister to watch out. :-) StuRat 23:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

• Something else to consider in the "incest" context -- many states require underage girls to get both parents' permission before having an abortion. Well, if a girl's raped, maybe most parents would agree to an abortion, but what if the father of the fetus is also the father of the girl? The girl and the government both have a strong interest in discouraging incest as a socially distasteful practice, and their interest trumps the father's interest in getting away with a felony. --M@rēino 15:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Purpose of Yahoo!IM spam?

In the past few days I've received several chats that all go the same way (obviously a bott, although I didn't figure it out at first). The message says something like:

Hi! I saw your profile and liked what I saw! I'm looking for friends to chat with. Wanna see my profile? It's www.whateverqc.com/mypics

Oops! Sorry, I typed wrong, take out the extra letters.

Then when I reply, they always say the same thing:

Wow, thanks! Well, some friends are here, bye, ttyl.

I'm somewhat paraphrasing. Obviously they're spam and after the first two times I figured it out and am just reporting them, but what's the point? The website, in its original (supposedly mis-typed) format is a dead end, and so is the amended version without the extra letters (which btw are always different). Anybody know what's going on?--Anchoress 22:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

It sounds like they are trying to get around SPAM filters that look for their web address. They want you to correct it and go to their site, possibly just so they can tell which email addresses have suckers willing to do that type of stuff. StuRat 23:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

That's what I thought too, except that none of the web addresses actually worked. And I don't know how they could get email addresses from Yahoo!Messenger IDs.--Anchoress 23:22, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

As I was going to St Ives, I met a man with seven wives...

This is a question on polygamy. If someone from a country from a country where polygamy is legal moved to a country where it was not accepted, what would be the status of the wives? Would they all be wives? Would none of them be wives? Would only the first be a wife? In Britain, polygamy is illegal, but we do acknowledge that in other countries, particularly middle eastern ones, many men claim many women as wives and accept this as unusual but accepted. We would never question a ruler's (who was entertained by the Queen) right to take more than one wife; but is it legal in that respect, or is it just put up with?--russ 23:23, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Depends on the country. My understanding is in the U.S., only one wife at at time. Israel is like that, with an exception for Yeminite Jews who move there. They're kinda "grandfathered". But after they arrive, they can't take any other wives. (This information subject to correction by those who REALLY know what they're talking about) Bunthorne 05:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Bunthorne, and to distinguish it further, and I think in many countries the plural marriages would simply not be recognised by the governments. I think there are three elements v/v Western countries anyway: 1) the social/cultural aspects of the immigrant families; 2) the legal aspects of the immigrant families; and 3) the issue of what is allowed after immigration. As to 1) I think it's 'don't ask, don't tell' in many places; if a man gets off a plane with his family of 4 women and 12 children, nobody from the government is there checking marriage certificates (depending on their immigration status, see 2). As to 2) however, he wouldn't be able to sponsor all four of them as spouses, he wouldn't be able to claim support from them if he divorced them, he wouldn't be able to claim spousal health insurance, file joint tax returns, etc, with more than one, and I think if the family came under the scrutiny of the courts for any reason (child welfare issues, divorce, etc), they would probably have to legally dissolve any extra unions, or perhaps they are just not recognised by the courts. As to 3) again it's don't ask don't tell. It's illegal in most Western nations to have more than one legal spouse, but there is no law against polyamory, and some cultures that endorse plural marriages just marry 'spiritually' and don't bother with legal marriages. As to separation, I am fairly sure that in Canada if a woman in a plural marriage with other women and one man left the situation, her spouse would be legally required to provide monetary support for any children they had, and I'm pretty sure she could sue for spousal support, even if they were not legally married and he was engaged in relationships with other women. But my take on most cultures that support plural marriage is that they're pretty tight and traditional, family breakup isn't too common.--Anchoress 06:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

This is actually an easy question. Just because you are married to 7 women in one country doesn't mean your status is carried to every country in the world. Therefore, it wouldn't mean anything to Great Britain or the U.S. Take into consideration that this isn't an "International" marriage, but local. User:NealIRC 10:53, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Too Hot to Handle

I have noticed that some Wikipedia pages have been withdrawn from editing due to vandalism, such as that on George Bush. Are there any subjects WP regards too difficult to allow people to edit, purely on the grounds that the edits may be difficult or sensitive? Clearly I understand that vandalism is one thing, but freedom of speech, backed up by citations and evidence is another (this does NOT directly relate to any one article but is a serious question) --russ 23:30, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Free speech doesn't apply to private websites (see WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not an experiment in anarchy), even ones created by volunteers. Note that George W. Bush is not completely blocked from being edited, just blocked from being edited by very new users. This is done because the page sees a lot of vandalism, which primarily comes from new editors, but even new users can propose changes on the talk page, so it's not completely restricted. Ziggurat 23:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

• Not that I know of; we protect pages from vandalism, but that's about it. Of course, those subjects that we might regard as "too difficult" are the ones that generally get vandalized the most. Regarding free speech: There is no free speech on Wikipedia. The goal here is to create an encyclopedia; if your idea of "free speech" disrupts creating an encyclopedia, you won't be allowed to do it. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 23:38, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your insightful comments. It is good to hear that the exchange of knowledge is really impartial. We seem to have beaten the Orwellian view of current times --russ 00:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Wikipedia is doubleplus good. StuRat 00:47, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

But Big Brother is still with us. Unfortunately. JackofOz 00:58, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

That would have been funnier if Big Brother linked to Jimbo's bio o:172.161.80.227 06:39, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

That wasn't meant to be funny. It's not funny. It's the end of civilization as we know it. JackofOz 00:49, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

sale of car

dear sirs IAM trying to find a site that i can post my 64 hillman conv super minx if you could help it would be very much help to me as i am new to this computer thing

Thank you Chris Sabatell--72.70.204.24 23:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed duplicate request. Note the comment at the top of the page: "Do not list your e-mail address. Questions aren't normally answered by e-mail. Be aware that the content on Wikipedia is extensively copied to many websites; making your e-mail address public here may make it very public throughout the Internet." Ziggurat 23:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

You could sell your car on eBay: http://www.ebay.com --Canley 00:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Ziggurat, I'm not convinced people even read that notice, or any of the notices on the top of the page. --ColourBurst 03:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think they do either, but maybe they read the bottom comment when they're adding the next one :)

Still, hope springs eternal... Ziggurat 03:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I think Ebay might charge a percentage of commission, but I am not entirely sure if that applies to motor vehicles. --Proficient 04:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)