Wikipedia:Association of Members' Advocates/Requests/March 2007/Cliffb

Case Filed On: 05:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedian filing request:

• Cliffb (talk · contribs)

Other Wikipedians this pertains to:

• 12.119.119.186 (talk · contribs)

Wikipedia pages this pertains to:

• User:Cliffb (edit | [[Talk:User:Cliffb|talk]] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Questions:

Have you read the AMA FAQ?

• Answer: Glanced over them

How would you describe the nature of this dispute? (policy violation, content dispute, personal attack, other)

• Answer: Personal attack.

What methods of Dispute Resolution have you tried so far? If you can, please provide wikilinks so that the Advocate looking over this case can see what you have done.

• Answer: None, not really sure where to start.

What do you expect to get from Advocacy?

• Answer: Advice on how to pursue this both on Wikipedia and in the real world

Summary:

So, here is the meat of the matter, I received the following email via my webform, it clearly references wikipedia which is why I'm starting here:

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:13:30 -0500 (EST)
To: ...email1...
From: ...name2... <...email2...>
Subject: Wikipedia edit

Below is the result of your feedback form.  It was submitted by
...name2...: ...email2... on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 at 22:13:30
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

content: Dear Cliff,

It is perfectly accepted to edit Wikipedia articles, but your edits should not be used as a forum 
to express homosexual opinions about other men. If you are wondering why people do not 
like nor accept homosexuals (gay is too soft a word, my friend. Gay implies happy.
You are not happy, you are genetically damaged. It's not your fault, of course, you were born 
this way). However, please keep your opinions to yourself, since you are just a poor woman 
trapped inside of a man's body. Your edits are no longer welcome. 

Yours truly, 

Doug

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
REMOTE_ADDR: 12.119.119.186

as you can see this is clearly harassment, although it took place outside of wikipedia, it is related to wikipedia.. At the moment I'm looking for ideas on where to go from here. Dropping this is not an option.

Discussion:

WOWZERZ! That is definately an article to discuss. I can't help you, but this definately needs to be looked at. --Cremepuff222 (talk, sign book) 01:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I filed abuse reports with Yahoo (although it seems the email address isn't valid) and with AT&T Worldnet. (the ISP provider for the IP address in question) I also sent the following email, although I just got a bounce message back that it isn't deliverable:

Hello Doug,
I have a few questions:
1. What is your wikipedia user name?  I'd like to take a look at your edits, so I can get to know you as an editor.
2. Do you have a webpage or blog so I can get to know you better?  

Since you've already found my website and wikipedia user page you already have access to my information.

I'm also curious where and how you came to your opinions.  Let me know, because I am always interested in learning more about other's thoughts.

Respectfully,
Cliff

This is what I've done in the rest of the world, although I still haven't addressed it beyond this page on Wikipedia. —Cliffb 09:26, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Response from Dfrg.msc

How bizarre. Firstly, let's clarify some things:

• I have reviewed you edits, I was quite impressed, you have a good edit history and strong contributions. I see no evidence of expression of "homosexual opinions about other men".

• Regrettably, there are certain risks you take when revealing personal information about your self on Wikipedia, and online. This is one of them. However, I would urge you to stay true to who you are, don't let this guy influence you.

• Currently, there are conflicting view on Homosexuality. Whilst being heterosexual myself, I see no reason at all why homosexuals don't deserve the same respect as all other human beings. If you want to get married, you can hold the ceremony at my house. Gay is not a "too soft a word" it is a commonly accepted slang term for homosexual.

• You are not genetically damaged, but it seems the person who wrote this letter is. Neither are you "a poor woman trapped inside of a man's body", these accusations are absolutely ludicrous and utterly false. Sexuality is a life decision and has little influence from genetic or outside conditions.

• Your edits are welcome, your edits are welcome, your edits are welcome. And nothing could be further from the truth.

Actions you can take

I'm not an expert on this subject, but I'll try.

• The mail you received is harassment. It is right to take action.

• Harassment over the internet is becoming more and more common, mainly because it is difficult to trace effectively. A shame the email address isn't valid, but it appears Dough is that stupid.

• Follow up your abuse reports and with the IP address in question's ISP AT&T Worldnet.

• I can't give you much help at all with the user on Wikipedia. It seems apparent that this came from an editor, and possibly an established one. It is possible though to find a user on Wikipedia with their IP address. For example, my IP is: 220.236.205.132. I think check user ect. can link the user with the IP address. I can get someone to look at this option if you request.

I think thats all I can offer at this time. If you have any further questions or requests, the case is still open. Cheers, Dfrg.msc 06:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Response from Cliffb

Thank you for your through reply... Regarding:

I can't give you much help at all with the user on Wikipedia. It seems apparent that this came from an editor, and possibly an established one. It is possible though to find a user on Wikipedia with their IP address. For example, my IP is: 220.236.205.132 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log)). I think check user ect. can link the user with the IP address. I can get someone to look at this option if you request.

Here is the crux of where I'd like assistance. I'm not sure from a Wikipedia policy framework where to start on this. I know there are privacy implications cross referencing the two, so I understand that perhaps this editor could be contacted and counseled on this, even if I wasn't allowed to learn who the user in question is. -- so I guess what I'm saying is that could you have someone take a look at this option?

I of course will keep editing, but cowardly acts like this one just annoy me. —Cliffb 06:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Side note

According to this: [1], the IP is located in United States [City: Morristown, New Jersey]. Local? Dfrg.msc 05:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Its not local. Although New Jersey is home to AT&T's NOC. I get the following traceroute:

7  tbr2-cl15.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.10.54)  30.276 ms  30.708 ms  32.286 ms
8  tbr1-cl17.attga.ip.att.net (12.122.10.70)  32.849 ms  32.056 ms  31.863 ms
9  tbr2-cl1474.ormfl.ip.att.net (12.122.12.122)  32.735 ms  32.735 ms  34.637 ms
10  gbr1-p40.ormfl.ip.att.net (12.122.1.65)  31.381 ms  30.718 ms  31.371 ms 
11  ar14-p310.ormfl.ip.att.net (12.123.32.145)  30.993 ms  33.795 ms  32.856 ms

which to me indicates Florida, which still isn't local... (I'm in the Seattle, Washington area) —Cliffb 05:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Check User Request

Dfrg, here is my first attempt at a Checkuser Request:

12.119.119.186 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))

I received harassment that clearly referenced wikipedia via my webform. Is it possible to cross reference from the IP address 12.119.119.186 to wikipedia user activity on or about 1 March 2007 03:13 UTC. If it is not possible to notify me or my AMA Advocate of which user likely did this, could you warn the user in question via email and/or their talk page? The email in question appears below:

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:13:30 -0500 (EST)
To: **** Removed my address..
From: Doug Michael <dmichael@yahoo.com>
Subject: Wikipedia edit

Below is the result of your feedback form.  It was submitted by
Doug Michael: dmichael@yahoo.com on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 at 22:13:30
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

content: Dear Cliff,

It is perfectly accepted to edit Wikipedia articles, but your edits should not be used as a forum 
to express homosexual opinions about other men. If you are wondering why people do not 
like nor accept homosexuals (gay is too soft a word, my friend. Gay implies happy.
You are not happy, you are genetically damaged. It's not your fault, of course, you were born 
this way). However, please keep your opinions to yourself, since you are just a poor woman 
trapped inside of a man's body. Your edits are no longer welcome. 

Yours truly, 

Doug

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
REMOTE_ADDR: 12.119.119.186

Regards - —Cliffb 05:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Version 2

Checkuser Request for AMA case

Hello, I'm Dfrg.msc and I'm representing Cliffb in an AMA case. We request an unusual request as a means of identifying the IP responsible for the below message, sent to Cliff via his webform.

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:13:30 -0500 (EST)
To: **** Removed my address..
From: Doug Michael <dmichael@yahoo.com>
Subject: Wikipedia edit

Below is the result of your feedback form.  It was submitted by
Doug Michael: dmichael@yahoo.com on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 at 22:13:30
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

content: Dear Cliff,

It is perfectly accepted to edit Wikipedia articles, but your edits should not be used as a forum 
to express homosexual opinions about other men. If you are wondering why people do not 
like nor accept homosexuals (gay is too soft a word, my friend. Gay implies happy.
You are not happy, you are genetically damaged. It's not your fault, of course, you were born 
this way). However, please keep your opinions to yourself, since you are just a poor woman 
trapped inside of a man's body. Your edits are no longer welcome. 

Yours truly, 

Doug

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
REMOTE_ADDR: 12.119.119.186

The sending IP is: 12.119.119.186 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))

The harassment clearly references Wikipedia. Is it possible to cross reference from the IP address 12.119.119.186 to Wikipedia user activity on or about 1 March 2007 03:13 UTC. If it is not possible or an outcome is achieved please notify either:

• Dfrg.msc (talk · contribs)
• Cliffb (talk · contribs)

And we will take the necessary steps. Regards, Dfrg.msc 05:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Right, I'll take the the request to UninvitedCompany directly, and Cliff can make a HideandLeek Check user requset. Cheers, Dfrg.msc 22:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Response

From [[User talk:UninvitedCompany/Archives/2007 March#Checkuser Request for AMA case]]

There have been no edits from that IP in February or March. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 22:50, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Dfrg.msc 22:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Followup:

When the case is finished, please take a minute to fill out the following survey:

Did you find the Advocacy process useful?

• Answer:

Did your Advocate handle your case in an appropriate manner?

• Answer:

On a scale of 1 (worst) to 5 (best), how polite was your Advocate?

• Answer:

On a scale of 1 to 5, how effective do you feel your Advocate was in solving the problem?

• Answer:

On a scale of 1 to 5, how effective do you feel the Advocacy process is altogether?

• Answer:

If there were one thing that you would like to see different in the Advocacy process, what would it be?

• Answer:

If you were to deal with this dispute again, what would you do differently, if anything?

• Answer:

AMA Information

Case Status: Template:AMA case status

Advocate Status:

• I'll take this case. Dfrg.msc 21:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)