Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/G. Edward Griffin (2nd nomination)

G. Edward Griffin (2nd nomination)

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/G. Edward Griffin
• Articles for deletion/G. Edward Griffin (2nd nomination)
• Articles for deletion/G. Edward Griffin (3rd nomination)
• Articles for deletion/G. Edward Griffin (4th nomination)

G. Edward Griffin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Self-publishing conspiracy theorist. Nominated for deletion and kept in December 2006, but none of the fundamental flaws -- complete lack of sourcing, evidence of real-world notability or impact, or even proof of public attention -- has been fixed. It's been over a year, and faith-based assertions of notability don't cut it. Calton | Talk 02:30, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• Keep G. Edward Griffin's work from 1950s-2008 just in the category of videos is extensive and the following is a sampling:

G Edward Griffin - Creature From Jekyll Island A Second Look at the Federal Reserve
G. Edward Griffin - A World Without Cancer - The Story Of Vitamin B17
An Idea Whose Time Has Come - G. Edward Griffin - Freedom Force International
G. Edward Griffin - Inflation
The Science and Politics of Cancer, G. Edward Griffin 2005
Edward Griffin - Seduction of a Generation (Sensitivity Training, Brainwashing)
G. Edward Griffin- On Individualism v Collectivism
America Bastion of Freedom - Willis E. Stone and G. Edward Griffin
G. Edward Griffin speech Tea Party Los Angeles 2007
Who Shall Teach by G. Edward Griffin
FIAT EMPIRE - Why the Federal Reserve Violates the U.S. Constitution
The Capitalist Conspiracy: An Inside View of International Banking by G. Edward Griffin
Soviet Subversion of the Free World Press - 1984
Invisible Ballots, Electronic Voting Machine Fraud
These are ALL available for free viewing on Google Video at http://video.google.com.
There are many many more. To see the full catalogue of books and videos by Griffin and his associates and all others offered, go to the site http://realityzone.com.
There are many reliable sources on the Internet as well as book stores and major publications that can be referenced at university and public libraries across America.
This falls well within Wikipedia's verifiability policy.
You will also find many radio and video interviews of G. Edward Griffin and by people at political rallies and events on the Internet as well and he is a regular speaker at Presidential candidate and ten term Texas Republican Congressman Dr. Ron Paul MD. --Jeff Smith08 (Much Respect)

• Keep He's a documentary film maker and has been exposing corruption since the 1950s with many titles to his credit, of which include many concerning the monetary condition that is ruining our dollar right now.

I would suggest you watch some of them if you love your country and family. He's also author of many books as well and been listed in whose who of America several times. Even some of the old school educational film strips were are still are many Griffin fan's favorites, like the film strip entitled "Inflation" which outlines the true relationship between printing money and the rising of prices which devalues the dollar itself, which we are experiencing today, which was made some time in the 1960s. G. Edward Griffin founded Freedom Force International and the Coalition for Visible Ballots. There is no lack of notability. Where Ed Griffin is concerned we're drowning in it. What do we have to do, write a new wiki to prove the current one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.128.181.67 (talk) 19:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

• Delete. This article fails verifiability policy because it lacks any third-party reliable sources. There are some citations, but, upon glancing over them, they all seem to come from a group that Griffin himself founded, and thus have no independence — they basically amount to Griffin talking himself up. This is a vanity article. *** Crotalus *** 04:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
• Delete I see no information indicating he is notable for anything. He has published a variety of his own lectures in various media,. some of them have something to do with various existing conspiracy theories and medical frauds, but there isn't anything to show he is actually important with respect to any of them.DGG (talk) 05:31, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
• Delete No reliable sources show any significant coverage (the old afd is a testemant to how sometimes afd's can get out of control with pile on votes). --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 06:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
• Delete — I encountered this fellow in my nomination of another deleted conspiracy theory article, and thought it wasn't notable and didn't have sources. I'm glad other people agree. --Haemo (talk) 08:05, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Gary King (talk) 09:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
• Keep The article is well-written and informative.Ourmangwynn (talk) 12:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• The first isn't a criterion, and the second -- since the article's not backed by anything resembling reliable sources -- is untrue. --Calton | Talk 13:43, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• Keep He's an author of at least a dozen books, in particular two books ranked pretty highly in specific categories on Amazon.com. His book on the World Without Cancer is ranked number 1 in the category of vitamins in alternative medicine and his book "The Creature from Jekyll Island" is highly-ranked in the banking and monetary categories. Also it is of some note that he's founded various organizations including the Coalition for Visible Ballots which is involved in quite a few ballot integrity campaigns of note like in Ohio. The Cancer Cure Foundation seems to be mentioned around quite a bit by those talking about alternative medicine. I think it's safe to say those calling for this article's deletion do not traffic in conspiracy theories or alternative medicine treatment for cancer. Notability in the field is important and it seems he's noted a lot among various circles. He's produced movies and books which are distributed widely in the community he's part of, it would seem he does meet notability standards. It's possible you won't find him by looking for his name, but look for his organizations, books, or movie and you're likely to find plenty of him. He was featured in America: Freedom to Fascism a notable film about the IRS and Federal Reserve, a subject Griffin discusses frequently. Altogether I think the notability standard is met.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 09:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

• Given how variable and easily gamed Amazon category rankings are -- especially when you draw the boundaries narrowly enough -- that means very little. Of course, Amazon rankings/listings are completely meaningless to begin with: actual reliable, third-party sources attesting to actual real-world notice and/or impact is what counts. And where's the evidence that "America: Freedom to Fascism" is "a notable film"? Even if so (which I doubt), notability isn't contagious, especially since you don't say the film is ABOUT him. So, no, the notability standard is not even close to being met, overall or otherwise. --Calton | Talk 09:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

America: Freedom to Fascism has its own article on Wikipedia and is certainly notable. Notability doesn't mean the person is notable in the general public, but notable in a field. All things considered he certainly meets that standard. Organizations he founded are mentioned in several reliable third party sources. The Cancer Cure Foundation is mentioned in several places, The Coalition for Visible Ballots is also mentioned because of its involvement in several actions for ballot integrity and counts Bev Harris as a member, who is notable enough to warrant her own article on Wikipedia, and while association doesn't mean notability, the notability of his organizations the fact he's interviewed for a film on the IRS/Federal Reserve means he is regarded as a notable source for that subject, fact his book is highly ranked on Amazon in a similar field certainly just further emphasizes his notability in that area of discussion.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 19:39, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

• Keep Read his books and you will know, The Creature from Jekyll Island, World Without Cancer and many more. It is difficult to hear the bad history but it does not mean it is conspiracy theories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LakeOswego (talk • contribs) 22:20, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

• Keep Based on the deletion policies of Wikipedia, the article regarding the individual G. Edward Griffin does warrant deletion. The user “Crotalus” stated the article lacks any third-party reliable sources. The “third party” clause does not fall under the deletion policies of Wikipedia. The comments made by user “DDG” are personal opinion, and irrelevant to the deletion from Wikipedia. The article is about an individual, who is involved in social activism, has authored many books, and produced many video documentaries. Whether or not people think they are notable is a matter of personal opinion.

• After reading Wikipedia’s deletion policy, I do not see any argument already given that would warrant deletion. In most articles in Wikipedia, there is often a section for criticism. Critics of G. Edward Griffin’s personal views, books, theories should add to the article to dispute his assertions. Requesting deletion is not rational. Critics of Mr. Griffin’s notability should provide arguments for what makes a person and their accomplishments notable enough to be included in Wikipedia. If they do no present such arguments for criteria, their personal opinions are irrelevant.

Epictatus (talk • contribs) —Preceding comment was added at 01:41, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

• Keep Funny how those four 'Delete' entries above were made on the same day within few hours of each other (it's that "Conspiracy theorist" in me -- sorry). You want to remove Griffin based on the above 'delete' comments? You've got to be kidding! None of them give a hint of any familiarity with Griffin's extensive work. Be real. He's an excellent source of well-balanced & objective information on exeptionally wide range of important topics. American-style self-sensorship at its best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.89.98.17 (talk) 17:34, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

• Keep - Before siting that G Edward Griffen doesn't pay attention to facts, it would be a very good idea to read his material, including that which he has developed (both in video and book form) on cancer. He does indeed provide much in the way of sourcing. I have personally read two of Griffen's books on Cancer, and found them very useful tools in making important decisions about my family's health. Regarding his politics, and his exposure of fraud, there is plenty of evidence to back up much of what he says, and although I don't agree with everything he stands for, I think he is an important dissenting voice. Steve —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.126.104.68 (talk) 19:38, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

• Comment -- I don't see any of the opposes addressing the fact that there are no reliable sources independent of the subject which establish notability. I do see a lot of bad faith accusations, misunderstanding of policy, and blanket I like it or it's useful assertions. --Haemo (talk)
• Keep vote was misplaced on WP:HD by 67.87.23.209. I have no opinion. JackSchmidt (talk) 20:29, 22 February 2008 (UTC)