This is an archive of past discussions with User:Writ Keeper. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Hello. I am requesting your opinions at Talk:Thomas Savage (died 1611)#Move and add to Thomas Savage as a third party to a discussion which I feel is nearing an impasse. I feel confident that if you chose to participate, your comments ideas and suggestions will be neutral and non-biased in favor or against either of the currently involved participants. If you do not wish to participate, I understand and respect your wishes. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 19:41, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
Silly question
Do you really think it's a good idea to broadcast how to bypass a wikibreak enforcer? I mean, I know it's bloody easy, but some people don't know... WormTT(talk) 19:30, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Uh, yes? Wikibreak enforcers are voluntary, and one can always have second thoughts; it's good to have a back door in this case. Why wouldn't it be? Writ Keeper⚇♔19:32, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
The point of the wikibreak enforcer is that it enforces what a person doesn't think they have the willpower to do alone. It's useful for those with slightly less technical knowledge to allow them to keep off the encylopedia, so that they don't have to self request a block. By explaining how to bypass it, you're effectively making it as useful as logging out - removing the crutch of "I can't go back", and changing the entire dynamic. The page in question allows users a back door, but one that really requires a resolve to come back - they have to ask an admin. That's a much more difficult thing to do from a psychological perspective than tick a box on your browser. WormTT(talk) 19:45, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
The way I see it is that, throughout the entire process of disabling Javascript and logging in, if somewhere along the line their willpower doesn't kick in, then I don't think they want to be away enough. I mean, just logging in out of habit is one thing. But having to willfully go through a whole rigmarole to be able to log in? That's a lot of time and effort to go through without ever thinking better of it. (Also, I still don't see why everyone's so jumpy about self-requested blocks, but then I don't see why people are so jumpy about non-empty block logs in general, so I'll just chalk that up to still not being totally in sync with Wikipedia's culture yet.) Writ Keeper⚇♔19:52, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Meh, it's 3 extra clicks to disable javascript (or one with the toolbar I've got), that's quite a difference to emailing an admin and hoping they do it. As for the block log, I agree with you, but unfortunately, that's the world we work in. In any case, it's something to think about in future. This isn't the first time this chap has done this - recently too, look at the edit history of the javascript file. WormTT(talk) 19:58, 18 April 2013 (UTC).
Three extra clicks if you know what you're doing, sure--but then, if you know that, you probably don't need me to tell you how to evade it, right? :) It's a significantly bigger effort for someone without prior knowledge of Javascript. Regardless, out of compliment to you, I won't talk about it any more. Cheers! Writ Keeper⚇♔20:00, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I have a feeling that Worm would be happiest with creating a wikibreak extension to install so that people can't bypass it as easily, as it would all be done server-side instead of client-side, less ability to just disable the driver. I'll give him credit, he titled the section correctly. Technical 13 (talk) 19:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Careful, you people. My reference to a monograph on akrasia led to an "unhelpful" hatting and then to an indefinite block. You may be on a slippery slope. Kiefer.Wolfowitz10:55, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
How's my driving?
Hi Writ. If you have a few moments to spare, would you be good enough to check that I've done what I think I've done with this edit? The idea is that if either of the categories linked become populated, the link will promptly acquire a garish red highlight, like this. Of course, I can't tell if it's worked until someone actually uses a {{helpme}} template somewhere, but I figured you'd be able to tell me if that particular mish-mash of brackets, hashes and nested templates will achieve the desired effect. Yunshui雲水11:54, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Your autoCloser script currently doesn't work for me with Safari; here are my details:
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.57.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.7 Safari/534.57.2
I see the [close section] link and am able to click it and enter my desired result, but upon clicking okay...nothing happens. —Theopolisme(talk)14:55, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
The reason it was deleted is that it was a direct copy and paste of the text on the school's website. Copying text like this is not allowed or acceptable on Wikipedia, even if you say where you got it. If you want to write an article, you have to be absolutely sure to write it in your own words, not someone else's. Writ Keeper⚇♔19:11, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
Hello Writ, I do not remember if you had an opinion on this discussion or not; however, I'm trying to find an admin that will tell me if what I have is the correct way to request an RfC as I understand it from WP:RFC. I'm feel confident that you will tell me honestly if that is the proper way to do an RfC and leave any thoughts or discussion of the topic the RfC is about to the RfC itself. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 13:20, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
I was actually just thinking of posting a comment about this on your page. My honest opinion is that it would be extremely unwise for you to post yet another RfC on this topic. There is no "official" way or place to post an RfC; the ones that have taken place on Talk:Suicide of Kelly Yeomans are just as official as ones on a Village Pump. And by the way, in my estimation (though after discussing it on Montanabw's talk page I would no close the RfC myself), the current RfC is not mired in no consensus. There is a solid (though of course not unanimous) consensus against the change. Bringing the discussion to another venue for a third round smacks of forum-shopping. There is a point in any discussion where you have to accept that the consensus is against you and move on. (And that the consensus is not driven by prejudice and bullying, because in this case, it's not.) I definitely think we're at that point. If you want to post another RfC on the Village Pump, well, I'm not going to stop you, particularly if it's framed as a general question, as opposed to the specific subset of articles you mention in the RfC. But I think it's a bad idea; the community opinion on the general case is clear enough from the current RfCs. I would also submit to you--without this being in any way a threat, because I have no intention of taking any action against you or even of asking others about it--that this kind of reckless pursuit of implementing your own ideas and opinions while overriding the concerns of others is precisely the type of behavior for which you were blocked, and the type of behavior people wanted you to avoid when unblocked. Writ Keeper⚇♔13:37, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Odd use of "going to", considering you'd already done it. But it's no big deal. I would've preferred to keep it here on this page, but there is all right. Writ Keeper⚇♔14:27, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
The Open Help Conference will be taking place June 15-19 in Cincinnati Ohio, USA. The conference includes two days of presentations and open discussions, followed by team "sprints" - collaborative efforts to write and improve documentation.
It has been suggested to send a team from Wikipedia/Wikimedia: to share our own knowledge about help, learn from others in the open source community working on similar problems, and to carry out a sprint to improve some aspect of Wikipedia's help.
If you don't wish to receive this newsletter on your talk page in future then just edit the participants page and add "no newsletter" next to your name.
Hey Writ! I'm sure you're swamped with work. But if you, for some crazy reason, felt like meeting up in Ohio in June for the Open Help conference, let me know :-) We're still looking for people to join a sprint team. Hope all is good with you, meanwhile! Siko (talk) 15:58, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
If i stop evade my block,how can i post my message. you had allready blocked my ID.
This has been explained to you already, but: the block on your User:Paramsinghantaal account means that you as a person are not allowed to edit Wikipedia, neither its articles nor the pages of its users, until the block is lifted. IP addresses are usually dynamic; in some cases, you get a random new one every time you turn your computer off. We can't know what IP address you'll have in advance (or we would've bblocked them by now). Moreover, the same IP address can be assigned to different people at different times, so we try not to block IP addresses if possible to avoid collateral damage. Incidentally, collateral damage is a good reason for you to stop editing from IP addresses; every time you do, there is the potential for many other people to be mistakenly blocked from editing Wikipedia because of your actions.
But the fact that we allow editors to edit anonymously doesn't change the fact that you are not to edit Wikipedia, even if you have the technical capacity to do so while logged out. If you want to edit Wikipedia again, there are still avenues for you to do so; you can email WP:BASC or WP:UTRS with an explanation of what you did to get you blocked (to show that you have an understanding of what went wrong) and how you'll avoid it in the future. But unless you do that, and until they accept your appeal, your requests will continue to be ignored and reverted on sight. Editing Wikipedia while your main account is still blocked will not help you; it will only make it worse. Writ Keeper⚇♔15:23, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
OK, i will do this because the matter is very important to me.But i am unable to understand that one have to do so much efforts for making a correction which is already confirmed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.205.57.57 (talk) 15:51, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
HELLO
Hi, you deleted my information page on securecloud, could you kindly explain why? I am not doing it for promotional purposes. Please help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rory.lean (talk • contribs) 15:39, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Hey, Rory! I understand that you didn't intend it to be promotional, but unfortunately, the article was still heavily promotional, to the extent that there was almost nothing neutral enough to be worth saving. Phrases like "It is a very unique, important and significant system" and "Other benefits of SecureCloud are" are not neutral in the encyclopedic manner that Wikipedia tries to achieve. They belong more in a company's press release or advertisement than an encyclopedia article. The article certainly wasn't the worst I've seen, but it was still promotional enough to warrant deletion.
Don't take it too hard, though! These kinds of mistakes are actually quite common, especially among newer users; nobody will hold it against you if you learn from it. You can still create an article about SecureCloud, but you have to be very careful to follow the rules about promotional language. Also, you should pay attention to the rules on notability and reliable sources; we need to see significant, specific coverage in multiple reliable sources that are independent of each other and the subject for an article to be made about it. Several of the sources you cited in the article either were not independent (e.g. written by the company itself, or someone at it) or did not discuss SecureCloud specifically and in depth. I would suggest creating the article first as a draft in your userspace; the usual place to do this is User:Rory.lean/sandbox. There, while it won't be a "real" article as such and won't show up on Wikipedia searches or links, you'll have all the time you need to work on it. Once you feel it's ready, you can submit it to Articles for creation, which will allow someone else to look it over and make sure it's okay before publishing it as a real article.
I'm sorry you've had a rough time of it at Wikipedia so far; Wikipedia's rules are numerous and complex, and it's very easy for a new editor to get tripped up. But it can be a fun place once you get the hang of it. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me here, or you can try the Teahouse, which is a place for new editors to ask any questions they need in a friendly, relaxed atmosphere. Thanks for trying to improve Wikipedia, and happy editing! Writ Keeper⚇♔16:18, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Hello, Writ Keeper. You have new messages at Wikipedia talk:Non-free content. Message added 18:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Hey there Writ, I remember you commenting on the use of non-free images outside of (article) space and thought you might be interested in the conversation I have linked above. Have a nice day and happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 18:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Talkforward from Technical 13
Hello Writ, I thank you for your consideration in deleting my IP address from that edit on the Teahouse. I've been having some difficulty staying logged in for some reason today ever since I submitted
T47843 yesterday. Not sure what is going on. Anyways, Thank you again for doing that even though I wasn't really too concerned about it whereas it is an IP from my university which I "think" is still too broad of an area for anyone to figure out who I am (and the fact that I've disclosed most everything on my user page anyways). On a side note, how much do you know about C♯ or VB.NET coding? I'm looking to write or have someone write for me a module to use with AWB that can find out the creator of a page, block them with certain settings/edit summary, and delete the page from a large list of pages (currently about 5500) in a category on another wiki I administrate. Technical 13 (talk) 17:46, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Oh, no problem; the revdel/send to oversight is old hat and pretty much instinct by now for logged-out editors. I don't know anything about VB.NET, and I've never tried C# (yes i know that's the wrong character; i don't care), though I have always wanted to learn it. I do know ANSI C, and I do know how OO programming works, so I doubt it would be all that hard to pick up. Writ Keeper⚇♔17:50, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Some antacid for you!
The Little Pink Tablets of Visceral Fortitude Award
I distinctly remember using the undo button and writing a rationale for this edit but it shows up that I reverted it with no rationale. Do you have any idea how that could've happened? RyanVesey19:02, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Hmm, not really. I know that that's what the "revert (vandalism)" button looks like now in terms of an edit summary; maybe you clicked that button somehow? Writ Keeper⚇♔20:01, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
TY
thanks for the "orange bar" fix ... much appreciated ... although .. hmmmm .... that plausible deniability thing is still running around in my head ... :). TY WK — Ched : ? 19:55, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
I only noticed today that it also tells you who left you a message, something the OBOD didn't do. That's a really useful feature. Trust you to not only fix the problem, but generate a fix that's actually better than the suggested one... Yunshui雲水09:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Well, I wouldn't say it's better; being Javascript and cookie-based impose some pretty significant restrictions on what the script can do. For example, if you log into a computer you haven't used before, or even just a computer that hasn't been used since the script was installed, you won't get any notifications, since there's no cookie on that machine. It also doesn't give any clues as to how many new messages there might be (though I could probably make that, if I set my mind to it; it's just a more complex API call). Anyone who has cookies or Javascript disabled can't use it. Because it's Javascript, it loads after the page, not with it; if you're the kind of person who quickly starts scrolling down as soon as the page loads, you might scroll past it before it has a chance to load. Some of these challenges are surmountable (well, at least once the API gets fixed), but not all of them. Put simply: it's nice, but it's really no replacement for the real thing.
As an aside, though, I do like telling you who posted. Having a link to the diff is nice, I guess, but I'd rather have the message give immediate information, rather than having to click on the diff link and loading another page to know more than just "you have messages". Although, come to think of it, I should really make it link to the section edited rather than just the page. That shouldn't be too hard, I think. Writ Keeper⚇♔13:33, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
For stepping up when the community was upset to implement a solution to our beloved OBOD. Actually I'm surprised that your page isn't filled with these types of awards and barnstars yet. But good work WK.
I just add a line or two to my monobook.css file, right? Monkey see, monkey do, I'll just copy what you added to yours. Please note there's a similarly horrible {{n+}}. Thank you, that is like fingernails on a chalkboard. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:52, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
That's really weird, I had just navigated to your page to tell you about it. I'll make similar changes to the n+ template. Writ Keeper⚇♔19:53, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Done. The Facebook like/dislike things are bad enough, but at least their color scheme kind of blends in so that they blend in a little and don't smash your eyeballs in their sockets with sledgehammers. These are just the worst. Writ Keeper⚇♔19:57, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
It works! I was sort of expecting to see no display at all, but instead it's just a small +1 in small red text. Thank you very much, that was really annoying me, to the point where I was considering a couple of out of process IAR deletions. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:01, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I figured I needed to display something, so that if someone makes a post that was just that template (someone did on Jimbo's talk page, I nearly reached through the Internet and throttled them), you can tell that they posted more than just their sig. I was actually trying to make the text black, too, but whatever; small red text is still a significant improvement over a huge box so garish that it evokes a colorful metaphor involving fire and/or probably offensive homosexual stereotypes. Writ Keeper⚇♔20:05, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
And thanks again, it's black now. Please feel free to take a barnstar from the supply shed, and add one more favor I owe you to my ledger. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:11, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Of course; any time. Please tell anyone else you think might find it useful about this bit of CSS; after spreading news of my orange bar script hither and thither yesterday, I'm all self-spammed out, but I suspect that many people would prefer to hide that template with this. Writ Keeper⚇♔20:13, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
All they've stumbled onto is one of my many IP socks. I'm saving my other admin socks for wheel warring, and my ArbCom sock for when I get into a real jam (well, in a real jam, I'd probably use User:Jimbo Wales). Speaking of real jams, why doesn't your orange bar thingy work for me? :( --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:22, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Presumably. In the meantime, what browser are you using? There are a few catches to the way I was forced to implement the orange bar: the biggest is that it requires cookies. This has a few implications: a) you need to make sure cookies are enabled in your browser, at least for Wikipedia. b) It will only work on a computer/browser combo that you've logged into before with the script; if you haven't used that computer+browser with the script yet, then the cookie hasn't been created yet. Writ Keeper⚇♔23:36, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Firefox 20.0.1 on Windows 7, with cookies. I added the script, logged out, logged into Floquensock, left a message, and logged back into Floquenbeam again, all on the same machine. I assume that's what you mean by "logged into before with the script"? Don't worry about it, I may futz around with it later. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:47, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Eureka! Something else in my .js file was conflicting; I emptied it out and now it works perfectly. Thanks. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. And "HA" back at you, all I see now is a harmless, normal-sized font, black "+3". So my sanity is safe. For now. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:42, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
New script request
Hi Writ. I had an idea for a new userscript that I'd find really useful; I wondered if you might be able to come up with something suitable. Basically, it would really help if, instead of a tiny red numeral placed unobtrusively at the very top of my screen, the "new talkpage message" alert was something a little larger and more obvious. That way I could respond quickly to users who posted on my talkpage, instead of having to wait until I spotted a change in my watchlist. I was thinking something with a fairly bold colour - orange, say - and a really clear presence on the screen, like, I don't know, a screen-width bar that appeared at the top of every page. It would also be good if the notification disappeared when I visited my talkpage, instead of remaining there until I clicked on it and viewed a completely new and unrelated page every time.
I realise that this sort of thing is probably incredibly difficult to code, which is most likely the reason no-one's ever done it before, but if you could take a look at my idea and see what you could do, I'd be really grateful. Cheers, Yunshui雲水13:12, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
That's a weird idea. Where did you come up with that? I've never even heard of such a thing.
But while we're thinking about it, it would be really awesome if IP editors could somehow get this script too, so they have some kind of notice that their talkpage has been edited. That's probably far too ambitious, though. Writ Keeper⚇♔13:15, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Why on earth would you want to let IP editors know that they've had a message? Anyone would think you planned on treating them like actual people. Yunshui雲水13:22, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Maybe you can write a script that automatically places a vandalism warning on an IPs talk page the moment they make an edit. I know a couple of RC patrollers who would like that. Drmies (talk) 13:49, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
I installed what I thought to be the entirety of the orange bar script, but I just got a talk page message that failed to trigger it. Could you look at User:Nyttend/monobook.js and fix whatever the problem is? Please leave me a talkback. Nyttend (talk) 17:31, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Hm. Your monobook looks fine. Have you tried bypassing your browser cache? There are instructions for varieties of browser at WP:BYPASS. Also, be sure that cookies are enabled in your browser; not having access to the same stuff that the real implementation of the OBoD, I was forced to use cookies to replicate it. What browser are you using? Writ Keeper⚇♔17:35, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
IE8. All WMF sites are either set to accept cookies automatically or aren't set at all, so it's not a cookie issue. Not tried the bypass yet; I'll do that immediately. Nyttend (talk) 17:41, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Probably. I don't have IE8 readily available for testing, unfortunately. It did seem to be working in IE9, though possibly not completely. I might have access later today to a computer with IE8 for testing. In the meantime, I might be able to work out an alternate version that doesn't use cookies (I suspect that it's IE's handling of cookies that is the problem). Unfortunately, it would then only work within a session; i.e. the bar would disappear when you close the browser window (and possibly also when you log out without closing the window) and would not reappear. Basically, if you're already on Wikipedia and browsing through pages, it'll work, but it won't let you know if something happens while you're away. Is that of use? Writ Keeper⚇♔18:47, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Not sure why I would close the browser window without checking the message, so I doubt that it would be a problem. What if you leave me a message when I'm offline — will it appear when I open the browser? Nyttend (talk) 19:01, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
No, this cookie-less version would not show a display in that case. See, the issue is this: cookies are the only way accessible to a user script (that I know of at least) to keep track of things even after the browser has been closed. What I'm doing is keeping track of the last time you looked at your user talk page, through a cookie, and then each time you load a new Wikipedia page, the script check that remembered time against the most recent edit (ignoring your own edits) on your user talk page. If the most recent edit happened after the remembered time you looked at your talk page, then it displays the message. Once you actually go look at your talk page again, the script updates its remembered time, and the bar disappears.
But without cookies, the browser will basically forget when the last time you visited your user talk page was each time you close it. So, the next time you open your browser, the script will assume there's no new messages, since it has no previous time to use in a comparison. It's only once you're on Wikipedia again that it can resume keeping track of the remembered time. Does that make sense? Writ Keeper⚇♔19:11, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Complete sense. It will be substantially easier to look at the notifications thing once when I open the browser and then ignore it the rest of the time than it will be to look back at it all the time for messages. Meanwhile, it's been a while since I last dumped my entire browser cache (as opposed to Ctrl+F5); let me try that and report the results. Nyttend (talk) 19:15, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
You realise that I was just ranting sarcastically, right? I didn't expect you to actually go ahead and do it... (although since you have; awesome: cheers!). In recompense, I've decided that you're too valuable to leave chained up in the basement wearing that ugly old sackcloth, so I've decided to let you have some proper clothes. Yunshui雲水18:39, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Actually, I got one of those last June for doing Teahouse stuff (before the giveaway nomination was a thing). I even wore it to Wikimania! I don't know if that disqualifies me from getting another; they're kinda nice shirts, actually, so I wouldn't say no to another one. ;) And yeah, I did kinda figure you were being facetious, but I decided to take it at face value anyway. Writ Keeper⚇♔18:47, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
It doesn't disqualify you and you get a choice as to what shirt you want, so if you have the "I edit Wikipedia" shirt from the Teahouse, you can get a Wikipedia Globe shirt from this. RyanVesey18:51, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Question: could you rework your script to simply look at the contents of the "pt-notifications" field and throw an orange bar if it is anything but (0) ? That way us habitual cookie deleters wouldn't miss out. Wnt (talk) 19:38, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
But wouldn't that give a message when a notification happened for something other than a talk page note? If you can restrict it to appearing whenever the notification appears for a talk page note, that would be great. Nyttend (talk) 19:40, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
That's a good idea, but like Nyttend says, I'm not sure how much differentiation there is in the messages that's available to a script. I'll look. Writ Keeper⚇♔19:41, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
After looking at it: there's actually a great deal of useful information in the notifications thing--but only when you have it open. When it's closed (i.e. when it's just the number, before you've clicked on it), none of that information appears to be available to scripts. There might be an API request that can retrieve it, though. Now, for someone who really hates all things Echo, they could turn off all the non-talk-page-post notifications in the preferences panel, and then that number could be used in this script (which would eliminate all API requests altogether, so that's kinda nice). But I actually like Echo itself (just not that they got rid of the OBoD to do it), so I don't want to force people to do that in order to use my script. If y'all have done that already, though, just let me know, and I'll be happy to make an alternate script that runs that way. Writ Keeper⚇♔19:48, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I too really appreciate the Echo thing; the banner's disappearance is the only problem, and I don't want to get rid of the other features. Nyttend (talk) 20:02, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Actually I was being simple-minded there - so far my notifications remain at 0, so I'm not sure if I'd mind seeing an orange bar for any category of them (besides, I can set which categories create alerts). But thanks for looking deeper. Wnt (talk) 22:41, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
I only got your message a while after logging in, because I still don't get an orange bar. Do you have any way to use IE to check how the script's working? Or will I have to change something in my monobook.js so that your changes will take effect? Nyttend (talk) 03:44, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure. It seems to work in my tests on IE9; not sure I have access to a box running IE8, but I'll check. You might have to clear your cache again, but I just merged the changes into the script as it stood, so your monobook.js should not have to change. Writ Keeper⚇♔06:00, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
It is not a gadget at all, or at least will soon not be; I've discussed it with some people and asked another admin (via IRC, so there's no paper trail; I do apologize for that) to remove the script as a gadget. It is not ready according to the specifications of a gadget, and for myself, I can't in good conscience support it. Writ Keeper⚇♔23:21, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
I wrote a basic doc page for your orangeBar script. I wonder if there is any way of forcefully adding it to the site-wide skin, as the WMF team seems to have gone home for the weekend... I also wonder if there should just be a little three-line ...orangeBar.css page for hiding the box so people can import that. But that's just my anal-retentiveness poking up again. Ignatzmice•talk11:45, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks; I've fixed up the docs page a bit. Usually, I'd prefer to write these things myself, but it's no big deal. Of note, though: the CSS is not wrong but largely unnecessary; only one line of CSS is needed to hide echo: #pt-notifications{display:none !important;}. Anyway, instead of messing about with hte sitewide JS and CSS, it can be added as a gadget on the Special:Preferences page, as Twinkle and HotCat were. It can also be made on-by-default from that location, too. That's a better way of doing things. Writ Keeper⚇♔13:31, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Hmmm. I'm using Monobook, and I do need the extra lines if I want the box to go away (which I personally don't; I just want the bar back!). Apologies for stepping on your toes. I didn't know Gadgets could be on-by-default; I would be quite pleased if that's what ended up happening. There could be some text in the bar to the effect of To only use Notifications, see your preferences. I don't know if one could make a hyperlink to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets with some sort of ?orangeBar=false pre-filled, but that would be best. Ignatzmice•talk13:52, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia talk:Notifications is becoming a huge mess so I thought I would come and talk to you here. What needs to happen before you can make your gadget on by default? I think we need it right now and there is clear community support for it. SpinningSpark15:48, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Your doc page says it uses cookies. I thought I read somewhere on the WPT:Notifications page that cookies were no longer required? SpinningSpark16:28, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Gadget, but if you aren't very technically-minded I'd wait for Writ or someone. I also don't know how to make it default-on. I don't know if the script still uses cookies; I'll take a peek and see if I find something obvious, but I'd like Writ to confirm that as well. Ignatzmice•talk16:36, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
If/when the script turns into a gadget, the line beginning with orangeBarDiv.innerHTML should be amended with <small>See <a href="/wiki/User:Ignatzmice/Orange_Bar_documentation" title="User:Ignatzmice/Orange Bar documentation">the documentation</a> to turn this off.</small> (before the final quote-mark-and-semicolon). Edit the link (and title) and wording as needed, or if you think you can make it more precise. I'm not sure where, exactly, the bolding happens; you could try throwing a </b> in before that sentence, but again, let's see what Writ has to say. Ignatzmice•talk17:01, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Add this ''OBoD'': This is a pseudo '''O'''range '''B'''ar '''o'''f '''D'''oom ([[User:Ignatzmice/Orange Bar documentation|documentation]]) to MediaWiki:Gadget-OBoD (If you move the documentation, reflect that in the link to it.)
Please ping me to check its working. I wouldn't want to miss any of the shitstorm of messages this is going to generate. SpinningSpark18:38, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Wahoo! Re: te link to documentation: I really think it should be in there, to cut down on said shitstorm. Also, see User:Ignatzmice/sandbox: using <span style="font-size:9px">...</span> makes it smaller than the small tag. Trying to unbold doesn't work. I also tried aligning it right, but it doesn't work with span and div makes it on a new line and also doesn't work. Ignatzmice•talk18:50, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Hey, sorry, guys, RL keepin' me busy today. The orangeBar.js script does not use cookies. It used to, but it doesn't any more. The last diff functionality can be replicated at the cost of another API call each page (which could significantly delay the appearance of the orange bar); the value of doing so is debatable. Another option might be to link to the edited section, rather than the page in its entirety; that shouldn't require an entirely new call, but there would need to be some tricky regexing for that, I think, and an expansion of the API call we are making. More to the point, though, it wbe much more difficult to develop the script after it's been deployed. I see that y'all have overridden my request to wait until we hear that the bug is fixed before we deploy it; I'm not happy about that, but it's water under the bridge and I'm not going to throw a tantrum about it or anything (after all, it's CC-BY-SA licensed, as with everything else on Wikipedia). I know that y'all want a fast response, but for the record, I'm going to say that I think this was over-hasty to a significant degree. Writ Keeper⚇♔21:59, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
I thought it was a little hasty too, and perhaps I'm an enabler, but I thought that it would probably be best to get something up that works and then add features and such after. Anyways, Writ, what if the bar was to display as it is now, and then the script go back and make the second call to update it? That will allow people to see the bar as quickly as possible and then if they want the extra link, they can wait a moment for it. As far as testing goes, you can still test on your undeployed version in your userspace and then when it works update the deployed version. Technical 13 (talk) 22:05, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes, but the testing requirements for something like a Wikipedia-wide gadget are significantly higher than a use-at-your-own-risk user script. With a user script, I can make a change with what testing I can do on my own and then let users report bugs; with a gadget, I can either do all testing on my own or--in a minor but very real sense--break the site. Yes, doing it concurrently is an option I've considered. I don't like adding things to the screen piecemeal, though. By the way: unbolding will not work because the bold comes from Wikipedia's site CSS stylesheet, which my script hooks into for the bar's appearance. Writ Keeper⚇♔22:12, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
In case you didn't see it elsewhere — your orange bar is working for me, even though I've changed no settings. Nyttend (talk) 19:49, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, but...
Would you be open to me tinkering with the script? I few ideas that should restore full functionality as if it was the real thing.—cyberpowerChatOnline02:56, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
I suspect you're talking about "last diff" and stuff? That code's easy to find in Template:Usermessage, but I believe that's what Writ was talking about when he mentioned "more API calls making it slower" at the bottom of this section. But if you're looking to edit the code just for yourself, I'm sure he wouldn't mind. CC-BY-SA, and all that. (Oh, oops. Did I forget to attribute when I copied it to my .js pages?) Ignatzmice•talk03:02, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
It's actually quite easy to do. Just make a call to the API with prop=revisions and rvprop=ids, and then add that link to the bar. I've never been fussed about how to do it; it's about whether to do it. Writ Keeper⚇♔03:26, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Oh, you added it Writ? Does the bar load and then go back and add the diff after? I am a habitual scroller so speed in loading is more important to me than a diff as I do use Twinkle which means that once I get to my talk page, if I can't figure it out, I can just click "Last"... Technical 13 (talk) 13:20, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Hey, I have discovered that you don't need the fancy stuff to get a link to the last diff; all you need is <a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:Mytalk&diff=cur">...</a>. I don't know if this is an API call or not, but I'd imagine it's less thinking-intensive on whatever executes the script (that'd be the user's computer, yes?). Does it lose any functionality? (P.S. shouldn't "last" be capitalized in your script?) Ignatzmice•talk14:54, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
No, it's not a complete sentence, so it's not obligated to use sentence case. (The original didn't capitalize it, either; that was because it put the period at the end of the parentheses, which intself just looks weird to me. Good call on the "diff=cur" thing, though; I forgot about that. Writ Keeper⚇♔16:15, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
If you were okay with not having the title reflect the username, you wouldn't have to call the username at all—Special:Mytalk works fine. But I s'pose the title is good for accessibility. (Though you could call it something like "My talk page".) Ignatzmice•talk18:52, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
My only concern with adding the username of who posted the diff is what if there where multiple people/diffs? The original used to have the link go to all of the diffs since your last visit, not sure if the url way above does that or only the last revision... Technical 13 (talk) 19:02, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
I imagine that wouldn't be too tricky to determine (and then link to), but I don't know what the cost would be.... Ignatzmice•talk19:10, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
I will update this as I go, if that's all right. Don't want to forget anything.
Chrome 26.0.1410.65 (sheeeezus) on OSX 10.8.3—does not work with Cologne Blue
Safari 6.0.4 on OSX 10.8.3—does not work with Cologne Blue
Safari 5.1.7 on XP v5.1 SP3 (VMware Fusion)—does not work with Cologne Blue
IE8 v8.0.6001.18702 (128-bit cipher) on XP v5.1 SP3 (VMware Fusion)—does not work with Cologne Blue
Well, actually I seem to have gotten rid of IE on Windows, so that's all I've got. Let me know if you want me to download something else. "Does not work" means I don't get the bar; nothing "breaks" or anything. Works fine in the other three skins. Ignatzmice•talk01:44, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I've done some testing myself All of my tests are on a Windows Vista machine and all tests worked in all skins except Cologne Blue.
FireFox 20.0.1
IE 7.0.6001.18000
Opera 12.15 Build 1748
Safari 5.1.7 (7534.57.2)
Chrome 26.0.1410.64 m
I'll test on my school computer tomorrow Monday which I know is running Windows 7 with FireFox ESR17.? and IE 8/9. Technical 13 (talk) 01:30, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Okay, it took me a LONG time, but I managed to track down the relevant CSS files for each skin by digging around in Safari's "Inspect this element" (sorta like Firebug). The Vector and Monobook skins (they share the same one) contain this interesting little snippet:
That makes sense as by the looks of the Colgneblue skin, it never had an OBoD to begin with. The real question is, how many people "use" Colgneblue? I mean that in the way of can we find one and ask them if there "use" to be a OBoD, and not in a they don't matter kind of way. Or, can we go to a wikipedia site without Echo and test? Technical 13 (talk) 13:24, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Just tested at Commons. Cologne Blue does not have the orange bar. We/Writ could add it here, if we wanted to get really fancy—but at the moment it is most definitely NOT a bug in the script. Ignatzmice•talk13:29, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
The CSS only affects the appearance; *something* should still appear in Cologneblue, even if it doesn't have the CSS stylesheet. If nothing at all is showing up in cologneblue, that is a bug in the script. Writ Keeper⚇♔16:25, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
What Ignatz is saying, is there was no bar before Echo in that skin. If it didn't show up before (as tested on another wiki (commons) that is still in pre-echo status, why would it be a bug that it doesn't show now? Technical 13 (talk) 16:32, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Working Apparently, Colgneblue does put a message up on pre-echo systems... I'm testing on fr.wikipedia.org with this account and my ShoeMaker account... 'div.usermessage' is where it goes... Doing more testing... Just a moment. Technical 13 (talk) 16:39, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Complete div section showing where .usermessage is on Colgneblue
<divid="topbar"><pid="sitetitle"role="banner"><ahref="/wiki/Wikipedia:Main page">
Wikipedia </a></p><pid="sitesub">the free encyclopedia</p><divid="linkcollection"role="navigation"><divid="langlinks"></div><divid="catlinks"class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden"></div><divid="titlelinks"><ahref="//wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_policy"title="wikimedia:Privacy policy">Privacy policy</a> | <ahref="/wiki/Wikipedia:About"title="Wikipedia:About">About Wikipedia</a> | <ahref="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_notices"title="Wikipedia:General notices">Notices</a></div><divclass="usermessage"><strong><imgsrc="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Nuvola_apps_email.png/25px-Nuvola_apps_email.png"alt=""longdesc="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_email.png"height="25"width="25"> You have <ahref="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Technical_13&redirect=no"title="User_talk:Technical 13">a message</a> (<ahref="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Technical_13&diff=cur"title="User talk:Technical 13">last change</a><spanid="newMsgJargon"><aclass="helpNewbies"href="/wiki/Help:Jargon#Diff"title="What is a 'diff'?"><sup> ?</sup></a></span>). <small>Remeber to check the page history if there are other new messages.</small></strong></div></div></div>
I hope that is helpful in some way (The unimportant French keeps messing my head up, someone want to convert it to english even though it isn't important to the section?). Technical 13 (talk) 16:59, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
I understand what Ignatz is saying, but it shouldn't matter to the script what skin you're in. The CSS is external to the script; the script should still be placing the notification into the page. It just won't look like an orange bar (It'll probably be just plain text with the links inserted into the top of the page). CSS is only for the appearance; the lack of CSS shouldn't prevent the script from inserting stuff into the page. If the insertion is getting prevented, it's due to something else, and that's a bug. Writ Keeper⚇♔17:30, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Oh hey, you're right. I just looked again—in Cologne Blue (on Commons) it's just a line of plain text floated right near the top of the page. My attention was drawn to the WMF badge, so I wasn't noticing it. Sorry. But! Knowing what I'm looking for, I still can't find it on enwiki with your script. So there is a problem after all. Ignatzmice•talk18:50, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Hope this is useful: in Cologne Blue/Commons, the "You have new messages" is indeed within a <div class="usermessage">...</div>, even though that skin does nothing special for .usermessage. It is also within a <strong>...</strong>, presumable because there's nothing special in the CSS. In Cologne Blue/enwiki, I really can't see that message. I can't find any occurrences of "usermessage" in the page source—but I also can't find it in the source when I'm using the other skins, which is very confusing 'cause I can click "Inspect this element" and there it is.... Ignatzmice•talk21:47, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
No, that's not the issue; the issue I think is that the anchor I use to insert the notification into doesn't exist in CologneBlue. Writ Keeper⚇♔00:56, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Apology
Hello Writ Keeper, I would like to apologise for the grief I caused you by making the OBOD gadget live. I would not have dreamed of doing such a thing if I had not considered it urgent. I would not have done it anyway if I had seen your opinion beforehand about how untested it was. Regards, SpinningSpark14:07, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
I meant to reply to this earlier, but I got distracted. It's no big deal; I understand why you did it. It wasn't grief anyway, just moderate annoyance, so no harm done. It's just that there are very, very nasty things that can be done with Javascript, and deploying things to everyone without vetting the code first could be disastrous, if some malicious code got sneaked in or even just a unluckily-misconfigured API call. I'm a little flattered that people apparently trust me enough to do something like this, but I'm not sure that people were aware of the possible consequences. Writ Keeper⚇♔01:10, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
HELLO
Can you please help me, User RHaworth deleted my sandbox securecloud article but you asked me to put it there to work on it. Can you please sort him out? Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rory.lean (talk • contribs) 17:18, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Your comment accusing me of vandalism is false
Writ Keeper, your comment accusing me of vandalism is false. Some people care about such things. This is Colton Cosmic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.78.9.218 (talk) 14:47, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes, some people do. YRC has emailed me in the past to thank me for keeping this crap off of his page, so I suspect that what he cares about is not the same as what you care about. Leave him alone. Writ Keeper⚇♔14:50, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't believe you that he thanked you for reverting my unsolicited unblock requests on his behalf. You are not telling the truth about that. This is Colton Cosmic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.78.9.218 (talk) 14:53, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
I'm not particularly interested whether you believe me or not (that's not even what I said, anyway). If he wants me to restore it, he'll tell me and I'll happily do it. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant. This conversation is over. Writ Keeper⚇♔14:57, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Hey Writ. User:Nerdfighter asked me if the Teahouse Question button required JavaScript to show the flyout input box. I told him it did and that I thought it was part of the teahouseUtility script of yours. Later, while changing some gadgets of mine, I noticed it was a default gadget located at MediaWiki:Gadget-teahouse/content.js. I have three questions I wanted to ask you about it.
Did you write this script?
I am looking at the history and I see you are the most recent editor. I also see that the following people have contributed in order:
One of my biggest annoyances with the script (and the utility with the script for the respond buttons) is the inability to right click to fix things using my browser's spell checker. What is the rationale for the rButton.button({disabled : true}).click(...? Can that be changed so poor spellers like me can use spell checker?
I see that the script only runs if it is on the THQ pages in MediaWiki:Gadget-teahouse.js, and was wondering if this could be changed as well. What would it take to have the script work on a template (let's say {{Ask button}} for the sake of discussion) that can be used anywhere (or maybe just WP:THQ, WT:, and User talk:) so that people that want to can take advantage of this as well (like Nerdfighter was trying to do)? I could envision it being something like the way that MediaWiki:Gadget-BugStatusUpdate.js is tied to {{Tracked}}.
I did not; it was originally developed by the WMF as part of the Teahouse initiative (which is why people like Kaldari and Werdna worked on it). I edited it as an admin to add the "reply" script of Equazcion's to the gadget, but I didn't write that, either. You'd need community-wide consensus to extend that capability outside the Teahouse. The code you quote does not refer to the right mouse button; IIRC, it refers to the "post reply" button. Its definition is: var rButton = $('#wp-th-respond-' + k);. Writ Keeper⚇♔16:43, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello, Writ Keeper. You have new messages at WT:Teahouse/Host lounge. Message added 16:41, 1 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Hi Writ Keeper. I would like to thank you for the contributions that you have made to this encyclopedia during your time here. Not only is your technical knowledge beneficial to many of us (thanks for the OBoD script), but your calm demeanor has helped you to earn my respect (and I doubt I'm alone). It is my pleasure to declare you a Golden Editor. You were nominated for the award by TheOriginalSoni. Regards, AutomaticStrikeout (T • C • Sign AAPT) 21:10, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Not by that one, at least (though maybe it's because of the namespace, rather than it being in the edit summary; I'm not sure anything in the User: namespace generates a ping). Also, darwinbish: bring it. Writ Keeper⚇♔19:17, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
No, that didn't raise her (you're lucky). I guess that's it for the edit summaries. Pity! (You'd better create User:Cthulhufish and challenge db to a fight to the death.) Bishonen | talk19:25, 7 May 2013 (UTC).
[A loathsome humanoid form, adorned in a surplice of hideous blood-red and followed by the frenzied beating of maniac drums, quickly strides forward to translate.]
The Master does not deign to challenge anyone, in the same way that you would not deign to challenge an ant to equal combat before crushing it 'neath your heel. Put simply, no mortal has the power to permanently harm Him or even comprehend His true nature; when He wills it, we all will simply be swept away into the Outer Darkness. It is only a matter of time and his desire to do so. Cthulhufish (ph'nag | fl'thun) 19:01, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
WK, it doesn't look like the closure worked properly as Paul doesn't show up as a successful candidate. Can you fix it? Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:08, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes, when I looked at it earlier, it didn't show up. I tried purging cache, but that didn't help. It looks okay now. Might be better if I understood how it worked.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:55, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
To Writ Keeper, for your Orange Bar of Death (OBOD) hack. You deserve multiple barnstars for enabling those who are unaccustomed to noticing Facebook-like red bubbles to still be aware when we have a new message. Thank you! AGK[•]22:02, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
The Script Barnstar
Thanks for the OBOD script. A request, is it possible that something could be designed (or already has been) that keeps the rollback links off of my watchlist. I think I have misclicked while scrolling thrice now, and it is a tad embarrassing (though not as embarrassing as the fact I just had to type embarrassing four times before I spelled it correctly ). I figure you would be the one to ask. Regards, GoPhightins!03:09, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
No problem. That CSS doesn't make it disappear totally, it just removes all the styling associated with it, so that it appears as only a small, inoffensive text "+1". Writ Keeper⚇♔19:54, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, well, I spent a good deal of yesterday sick in bed, reading the Necronomicon, and this was the result. This and hallucinations... Writ Keeper⚇♔18:44, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't think that's how Cthulufish works. I've not read anything other than Writ's translations, but it (he?) doesn't seem the kind of being one can just summon up as punishment. Ignatzmice•talk18:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Yup. I'm still surprised this has become such a thing; I knew *I* liked the orange bar, but I didn't realize so many other people did, too.I wish I could get some concrete figures on how many people are using this; "What links here" only goes so far. Writ Keeper⚇♔13:20, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Actually, I have no idea; the logic of deciding whether there's a new message or not is essentially out of scope for the script, as it's now driven entirely by the wgUserNewMsgRevisionId variable that Kaldari added a few days ago. You'd have to ask him. Writ Keeper⚇♔13:31, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Synonym
Hi, what about 'events in the work are portrayed in verse' instead of described? Sorry, I noticed you asking for synonyms. Thanks for the OBoD script! SagaciousPhil - Chat15:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Yup, no worries. I think I used "portrayed" somewhere else in the paragraph; you see, the big thing for me in writing is to avoid repetitions of words, and I'm kinda straining here. that instance is one of the more glaring problems, yeah. Thanks, and you're welcome for the script. :) Writ Keeper⚇♔15:47, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
And now that I look at it, the other usage got pushed out to the other subsection (it wasn't like that before), so it should be fine to use. Thanks again! Writ Keeper⚇♔15:49, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure about the DYK stuff. I did post my guy there some six weeks ago, effortfully, but I immediately repressed all memory of the thorny, template-happy process. However, I think you must have forgotten to transclude the nomination to Template talk:Did you know, because it don't appear there. See III here, or so I think. Bishonen | talk22:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC).
Who haven't I pissed off lately? I seem to have experienced something of an upsurge in userpage vandalism since I started doing some (fairly tentative) SPI clerking; fortunately people like you normally revert it before I'm even aware anything's happened (if your trusty OBOD script hadn't notified me, I might never have noticed the original message or your revert!). Yunshui雲水13:46, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Closed discussion on the Teahouse and respond link removal
Hey Writ, I just closed a second discussion (Not sure if the Teahouse has any policies about that, but figured it was better than deleting the discussion), and I started wondering how much work it would take and if it would be feasible to remove the "respond to this discussion" link (and maybe edit link too) from closed discussions using the script. This will discourage people from trying to get the last word in on a discussion that has been deemed to be incapable of adding any more useful information. What do you think? If you think it would not be too unreasonable to add to the script, I would be happy to present the idea at the host lounge for consensus. Thanks. Technical 13 (talk) 16:13, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Every time I visit this page, I seem to be after something... well, this time is no exception. I'm sure that, being the bright chap that you are, you can fathom the intricacies of complicated template-y stuff; perhaps you can tell me where I'm going wrong here. I'm trying to create an annotated image for the page I recently created on Bonshō, but it's proving a little beyond my capabilities. Take a look at User:Yunshui/Bonsho image to see what I mean...
Two questions are foremost in my mind: first, how do I fix it so that the caption only displays at the bottom of the thumbnail (and not in bright red at the top)? Secondly, and arguably more immediate an issue, how do I make the blasted image visible?!
(talk page stalker) I may have some bad news Yunshui... From Template:Annotated image I quote, "valid image file name; SVG images are allowed" -- This may be unclear as what it probably should say is "... SVG images are required" -- your image is a JPG... So, the first thing you'll need to do is convert it. There are programs out there that can do that; I am horrible at using them right now, or I would help you. The reason your "caption" is showing at the top of the page is because that is the alternate text for the image that isn't loading because it is not a SVG image. Technical 13 (talk) 11:55, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Well that explains that. Thanks Technical (incidentally, you were the next name on my go-to list if Writ failed to come up with the readies - I should have gone to you first!). There don't seem to be any .svg files at Commons that suit my needs, so I'll have a footle about over the weekend and try and convert an existing file (or make one myself; how hard can it be to draw a bell?). Much obliged! Yunshui雲水13:49, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
Technical 13 (talk) 19:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Ignatzmice•talk 18:50, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Working
. Technical 13 (talk) 15:34, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
). I figure you would be the one to ask. Regards, Go Phightins! 03:09, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
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