User talk:Lquilter/pending

This is a list of closed conversations from my talk page that nevertheless have some action or notice that I still may want to follow up on. It's a talk archive, so please don't edit here but use my current talk page. However it is not a permanent archive; see User talk:Lquilter for the list of permanent archives.

Re: Wikipedia_talk:Categorization#"tags" & tagging versus categorization

I very much liked your suggestion here. I've been waiting for some responses from others before I chimed in. It seems that there is little interest these days in discussions about categorization policy (the exception being WP:OCAT). I think you should write something about tagging, and post it. I don't think it will be very controversial. As for my category typing, I'm thinking we should just start doing it on a small scale, and see if it catches on. I replaced a {{catdiffuse}} tag with one of mine and there requested feedback and there was none. The true test of consensus is if changes survive. -- Samuel Wantman 21:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll start drafting, & when I have something approaching discussable, I'll repost on the page. It might be a couple of weeks -- I'm wrapping up a big work project. --lquilter 16:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Helping out with the Unassessed Wikipedia Biographies

Seeing that you are an active member of the WikiBiography Project, I was wondering if you would help lend a hand in helping us clear out the amount of [unassessed articles] tagged with {{WPBiography}}. Many of them are of stub and start class, but a few are of B or A caliber. Getting a simple assessment rating can help us start moving many of these biographies to a higher quality article. Thank you! --Ozgod 21:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Ethical banking closure

Hi Jc37 -- This is about the ethical banking closure. You closed as "listify and delete". As I read the discussion, it was not primarily about what to do with banks that may or may not have been included in the category; we all agreed to take those out. The question was what to do with the movement name. From what I could see, only Carlossuarez46 thought to delete the category altogether, but he didn't respond to the questions about why naming it movement wouldn't work. The issue is that there are articles that reasonably would be associated with the movement that are not "banks", per se. Lquilter (talk) 19:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps I missed something, but it seemed to me that only banks were members of the category? So if they are removed, it would effectively be "empty". - jc37 01:01, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Bias against wives of famous men

Hi, I found your name through Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias, which I came across today. I tend to think everyone has biases and the danger is denying one's biases. That's why on my user page I've tried to set forth what mine are, if that makes any sense. Anyway, that's not what I'd like to discuss with you. Through editing the article on Catherine T. MacArthur, I came to the conclusion that there is a bias against the wives of famous men. I worked once for a small Florida bank that was controlled by her husband, John D. MacArthur and had occasion to met with him in his coffee shop office. I met or saw her a few times, but never really talked with her. I understood, though, that she was more than just a house wive and that she played a powerful role behind the scenes. Anyway, if you look at the articles, someone has slashed hers with citation needed on practically every sentence. I've supplied some of the citations, but not all. His article, though, was not similarly slashed, although I see now there is one citation needed that's been added. Her notability has even been questioned. Anyway, it seems to me that there is a bias against wives of famous men that seems to discount them and the contribution they may have made to their husband's success. This bias may even come from women who consider themselves "more liberated." Catherine T. MacArthur, though, wasn't home keeping house or baking cookies; she was in the office designing the business procedures that made Bankers Life a success. I'm sorry if I've rambled, but I would appreciate your thoughts on this. clariosophic (talk) 22:05, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Categories and Subject Headings

Posted at User talk:Sterry2607: Hi Sterry2607 - nice to meet you; I'm Laura Quilter User:Lquilter. I'm also a librarian -- well, a former librarian; currently an information law attorney who works with librarians (in the States). Anyway, I wanted to respond to your comment on the editor's page about women writers. I too have been thinking about the use of subject headings and search terms in thinking about categories lately. If you don't already (or haven't previously) participated in categories for discussion, I think there are a lot of discussions that could use some sensible real-world approaches like that. ... the specific issues I was thinking of for subject headings & search terms wasn't women writers (although you're absolutely right) but other ethnic/occupational categories. Anyway -- obviously I have no idea what you might think about those issues, but I would love to see someone who's thinking about library & reference uses also keeping a weather eye on relevant discussions. ... Anyway good to meet another librarian. Cheers, Lquilter 13:18, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi Lquilter. Thanks for your message. I'm fairly new at Wikipedia - since about May - and am still finding my feet, working out where I want to put my effort, besides writing articles. A few weeks ago, after trying a few projects, I landed on the Uncategorised articles project and so now do some stuff there when I have a spare moment. I have decided that Categories are the aspect of behind the scenes work that I am most interested in. I didn't know about that categories discussion area so will have a look at that link you gave me. BTW I am recently retired. And in fact I was really only a "proper librarian" for a year or so. Most of my career I was a film librarian and then an audiovisual archivist. However, in much of my archive career - 22 years - I was interested in data and indexing etc. We didn't use the standard library tools and systems but I guess I have tried to keep abreast of the principles because they are applicable in other circumstances. I'm still trying to get my head around Wikipedia and categories ... will see if I can contribute! No promises! Cheers, and thanks again for the friendly helpful message. Sterry2607 17:40, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Exciting that you were a film librarian/archivist! One of my best friends runs a film archiving program at NYU (Howard Besser). If you ever have Qs about categories here on wikipedia please feel free to ask me -- I've been doing them off & on for about a year. Doing a lot of work categorizing Category:Organizations right now as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Organizations. --Lquilter 18:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry Laura, I should have used your name since you told me it. I'm Sue by the way. How interesting re your friend. I don't think I've heard of him. Is he active in AMIA (Association of Moving Image Archivists)? It's international but started in the US and is largely US based. I did go to its conference in Portland in 2001 - wonderful. There aren't many film archivists here in Australia so we feel quite isolated. Anyhow, back to Wiki. I'll probably keep working on the Uncategorised project for the next little while - it helps me learn about what catagories there are and how they work...but if you ever want to toss some ideas around please let me know. As I said, I'm retired but not out for the count yet. (Still in my mid 50s)! Sterry2607 04:38, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Women lawyers

Thought you would be interested in this new article I have been creating in my sandbox [1] please feel free to work on it as you see fit. I may not have time to do that myself, so please use what is there and launch it yourself if you wish, regards Peter morrell 08:43, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

• awesome - i'll do some

Thanks for your very helpful additions. Meantime, I am hoping to add some good quotes and keep adding to it. Do you know how I can find an article in a new category: Physicians of color? or Black doctors? there is much on this which I have in historical texts but seemingly no WP article on this topic. I can create one in sandbox but wonder if there is one already in WP? thanks Peter morrell 13:56, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

• there is not. there has been a lot of difficulty creating and preserving cats on professionals of color or women professionals. typically the response is "non-notable intersection". so my new approach is to demonstrate notability by writing the article first -- the articles all need to be written anyway. ... As for race & ethnicity in professional histories, I think it will be hard for two reasons. (1) WP's issues with describing ethnicities, and (2) tendency of new page patrollers to be confused about articles with interdisciplinary topics. ... more later. --Lquilter 14:08, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

OK thanks, I will create one (on black physicians) in sandbox later and send you the link. I have some great stuff from Rothstein and Coulter re women in early US medicine and early black doctors which will certainly go into the mix + some good stuff on early women homeopathic physicians. Not sure you will want that in your 'women in medicine' piece because of its marginality but some were real pioneers worthy of a sentence or so. More on this in due course, thanks again Peter morrell 14:33, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Here is a sample of the women quote I mentioned: Homeopathy, like other non-regular sects, had many more female practitioners than regular medicine did. In 1900, women constituted 5% of the students in regular medical schools, 9% of the students in Eclectic schools, and 17% of the students in Homeopathic schools. (cite: George M Kober, The Progress and Tendency of Hygiene and Sanitary Science in the Nineteenth Century, Medical Record 59, 1901, p.906) In the same year, 12% of all homeopathic physicians were women. (cite: George B Peck, Homeopathy in the USA, Hahnemannian Monthly 35, 1900, p.560)[W G Rothstein, American Physicians in the Nineteenth Century, from Sects to Science, Baltimore, Johns Hopkins Univ Press, 1972, pp.300-301]

Opposition to the admission of women into medicine was part and parcel of allopathic conservatism, along with opposition to the Negro physician and to homeopathy...the American Institute of Homeopathy devoted its 1869 meeting to the role of woman in medicine; at this time it resolved to admit female physicians to membership (cite: Trans. Amer Inst Homeo XXii, 1869, p.349)."[Harris L Coulter, Divided Legacy, Vol. 3, Science and Ethics in American Medicine 1800-1914, p.296] Question is do you want this type of stuff in 'your' article?

It's not my article! ... Of course, the history of professionalization (including exclusion of so-called alternative medicine) is part and parcel of the history of minorities and women in medicine. I'm not sure how much of that should go into the "women in medicine" article. I skirted it a bit in the draft by alluding & referencing the professionalization lit including English/Ehrenreich (more midwifery than alt. med.). The other problem, of course, that I haven't really handled in the Women in medicine article is that it is, currently, primarily focused on physicians. Nursing is another example that is ripe for writing, but you know, there's not even a History of nursing or Professionalization of nursing article. So there's a lot of missing stuff right now. ... What else is in WP right now about relationship between professionalization of medicine and alternative medicine? I guess, I feel if we're thinking about broadening topics we should take the big view; I wouldn't mind helping to sketch out different articles & where topics/discussions should fit in them. (Is there a history of medicine project that this would work under? Or history of science?) ... If you're thinking about just the Women in medicine article, I guess I would put the material in with the professionalization right now, but less than you currently have, because the article is mostly focused on physicians. (And I would edit some of what you have for POV issues.) Once we have the question resolved about what to do with non-physician-medicine in Women in medicine then we could move on. (I note, btw, that the History of medicine article currently has nothing about exclusion of women and people of color, a problem that should be remedied.) --Lquilter 15:14, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

OK thanks; of course I know it's not YOUR article but you have done much on it that was all. Well, thanks for valuable feedback I will work on it as time permits...it's a wide field that's for sure. Will let you know new sandbox stuff when it is ready, regards Peter morrell 17:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for update re drafts! gulp! Gosh! your plans are very advanced and prolific! am v. impressed. thanks will be happy to help where I can. cheers Peter morrell 22:11, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for comment re women in the US judiciary...I think my 'article in the making' (in the sandbox, if you will!) is broader and should be merged with this one. I dont think a solely UK article is desirable. Maybe a new article 'Women Lawyers' can be made to replace the one you mentioned? just a thought. However, I am in any case way too busy right now to do this. Let me know what you think. cheers Peter morrell 11:18, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Donation in a good cause?

Maria and I were wondering if you would be willing to donate $5 or $10 towards a Cervantes pot. We recently discovered that the Spanish wikipedia has FAs on a number of British and American writers and texts, but we have none on any Spanish-language writers or texts. So, we thought maybe a push at the reward board would do the trick. See our discussion here. Awadewit | talk 20:13, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

• Good idea. Let me think about it -- I wholeheartedly support the goal but I'm still on the fence about the method. I had postponed thinking about the bounty/reward thing but will look into it and try to make up my mind. If I don't feel too fraught about paying for WP, then I'll definitely contribute. How? Paypal? --Lquilter 20:34, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

• I haven't set everything up yet. Do you know, is there a way to set up a PayPal account so that people can just add money to it and I can administer it or something like that? Awadewit | talk 20:39, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
• I honestly don't know! But that certainly seems like the sort of thing one should be able to do! --Lquilter 20:41, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

• Well, if I can't figure it out, we can always use my PayPal account. It is empty. :) No confusion over money there. Awadewit | talk 20:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

• I have set up my PayPal account for this now. Email me if you decide you can contribute and I'll tell you the account name. Awadewit | talk 13:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Feminists everywhere

Elizabeth Cady Stanton is up for FAC. I thought you might be interested in commenting. Awadewit | talk 13:22, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Category:Worker's NGOs

Re: eliminating redundancies in Category:Organizations
I have no problems with that. I was doing things in a hurry as I tried to plow through 400 articles. There is a lot of redundancy between Organizations, NGOs and non-profits. No one has developed a clear definiton to seperate them and I'm not sure they should be seperate. Feel free to rework anything I've done there. I was just trying to create some order in the chaos there. Eventually I focused more into dividing them by major category types and by country of origin/work (combing them for one country group).----Adimovk5 01:04, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Proposed rename for subcategories of Category:Women by occupation

As you participated in the discussion on Female writers (10th century), I thought you may be interested in the proposal I have made in which that category is subsumed.--Matthew Proctor 06:39, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

NGO's

G'day Lquilter, I was just looking at the categorys discussion Log/2007 December 4. I'm assuming NGO's stands for Non Government Organization? If that's the case and I'm pretty sure it is then there would be seperate categorys for the government bodies right? Sting_au Talk 05:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

• Yep -- NGOs means "non-government organizations" Unfortunately, a lot of non-government organizations are listed under "charities", "non-profit organizations" or simply "organizations". "NGOs" is a term that came from the UN so certain kinds of international groups that tended to work with the UN use it; all sorts of other "NGOs" use whatever their own country's term for "nonprofit" is -- charity, nonprofit, lobbying organization, etc. It's a mess! I'm trying to create a general "organizations" tree that has subtrees for (a) forprofits (e.g., companies), (b) nonprofits (however described), and (c) government agencies. So on this CFD I'm just trying to combine a couple of the NGO/nonprofit categories & get better ideas for names; but if you have thoughts about the overall structure, those would be most welcome, too. --Lquilter (talk) 13:25, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Quick answer on Cat Emergency organisations

I am fine with your merge suggestion. A possible rename would be Relief organisations, but that limits the scope as it does not include domestic or governmental organisations. --rxnd ( t | € | c ) 08:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Rxnd - Would you mind responding at the CFD, to help keep that discussion centralized? link --Lquilter (talk) 13:31, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

re: organization cats

I'm not real bright when it comes to categories/sub-categories. Can you tell me which ones specifically you object too? Here are the changes I made:

• I added the non-profit organization category to the al-anon article, as it is a non-profit and the you left that category in similar articles, so I figured it would be okay [2].

• I added added the cannabis category to the marijuana anonymous article as it seemed to fit with the pattern in the cocaine anonymous article (that is the cocaine category) and the narcotics anonymous article (that is in the opioids category) [3].

• GROW, Recovery, Inc., and Emotions Anonymous are fairly similar (and not addiction recovery groups) so where I thought where it applied I used some categories that you left some of them in the others:[4], [5], [6].

You must know a lot more about all of this than I do, so I'll trust your judgment if you think any of the changes are way off base. Just let me know where I went wrong.

... and thank you for all the work you put in to getting the articles correctly categorized. -- Craigtalbert (talk) 05:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Ohh, and somewhat related, maybe you can help me find better categories for some of these other article? For instance Debtors Anonymous, Clutterers Anonymous, Self-help groups for mental health are defiantly not addiction or substance abuse organizations (I just removed the category from them). Some of the other ones that you put in the same category are more borderline cases but probably don't belong in it (e.g. Co-Dependents Anonymous) -- as much as some people might like to call co-dependency a "process addiction," they're kind of reaching there. That's probably beside the point. I only slept but four hours in the last two days, so my apologies for being incoherent.

Overeaters Anonymous is also a little controversial in an addiction and substance abuse category. Some people compare compulsive overeating to drug/substance abuse, but other's don't see it as being quiet analogous.

The auxiliary groups for friends and family of people in other recovery groups may also be a little out of place in that category.

Anyway, I'd appreciate you thoughts on the topic, and thanks again. -- Craigtalbert (talk) 06:43, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

woman author

Hi Lquilter, thanks for your message. Ethel M. Dell. Her works recently popped up on the new list at http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu. The Top of the World and They Way of an Eagle are the only two I looked into. Do you know some scholars that might have written about her? WikiJedits (talk) 15:42, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

A word of advice please

I've been asked to attempt to broker peace at post-abortion syndrome and steer a new NPOV path. I know nothing whatsoever about this, being broadly indifferent to the abortion debate. I have though noticed in people I know that mild short-term depression/anxiety/guilt seems a frequent consequence of abortion. (Why not? Depression/anxiety is a common consequence of heart attacks. Us humans are emotionally fragile things.) So, do you believe such an outcome is possible? Or are positions too entrenched? --ROGER DAVIES ^talk 18:38, 6 December 2007 (UTC)