Talk:No-carbohydrate diet

WPFood assessment

Low importance C-class article on controversial diet.

The article needs attention to:

• Apparent NPOV
• Possible OR
• Uncited or improperly cited sources

--Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 02:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Point of view

This article is clearly written in support of this diet. Go ask any 5 medical dieticians whether it is a good idea to remove vegatables, complex carbohydrates, and fiber from one's diet - odds are, they'll all say no. This article fails to address any of the opposing views, and appears to be sourced exclusively from supporting sources instead of independent ones. It would seem that this article was created in order to avoid being associated with the negatives presented in the Low-carbohydrate diet article. DrAvery 20:00, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your contribution DrAvery, surely you could provide this article with these much-needed opposing views/facts; as a physician it can only be presumed that you have extensive access to informational resources beyond what the common wiki user has. Would you mind providing whatever number of hyperlinks which both substantiate these "opposing views" and represent the actual balance of support in the medical community. Thank you!

I believe the article is biased towards the assumption that low-carbohydrate diet means the individual is consuming high levels of animal protein, which is not necessarily the case. A low-carbohydate diet can also be more balanced or even vegetarian. I find the article wanting of complementary perspectives and research concerning these other low-carbohydrate alternatives.

Negatives

This was the first Wiki page I ever made, and I admit its biased simply because of my experience with it (over 6 months as of today), and the fact that i dont know of any negative factors associated with this diet (aside from the fact that you cant eat 90% of the foods you normally ate). This page is also grossly incomplete, and doesnt properly explain the diet and the biological reasons behind it, all of which information is found in the links I provided. I made the page so that there is awareness that this diet even exists, and to provide a central database for all of the zero-carb info thats scattered on the web. The page itself needs to be significantly augmented without a doubt. I seriously disagree with your assessment that this is basically the low-carb diet. This diet is a 100% carnivore diet allowing no vegetable, fruit, nut or any other plant matter whatsoever, that fact alone making it radically different from any version of the Low-Carb program currently used. I would also certainly welcome any cited negative factors of it, but more along the lines of population studies, not opinions from dietitians. Most dietiticans dont even support low-carb diets, I would not expect any support from them on something like this. Not to mention that doctors have their own biases. In sum, this is a very very rough draft and I look forward to someone putting in the time to expand it and present a more complete picture of this approach to diet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Classic69 (talk • contribs) 08:47, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

Carnivorism = Zero-Carb Diet

When the article on Carnivorism was proposed for deletion, I suggested a redirect to Zero-Carb Diet; but the eventual decision was a redirect to Carnivore. The good news is that previous versions of Carnivorism are still available, in case anyone wishes to salvage anything from any of those versions. — Haim Berman 13:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Reject: Technically, meat contains some carbohydrate (manufactured in the source animals' bodies from protein so they can have energy), so carnivorism would properly be called a very low carbohydrate diet.

Nor is it alone in the no-carbohydrate category; certainly, reagent-quality pure protein derived from plant sources, bacteria, or synthesized protein would contain zero carbohydrates. Other forgotten foods include vegetable oil, which also contains no carbohydrate. David Spector (talk) 20:54, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

The name is wrong. This article is not about No-Carb diets which does not appear to exist in modern humans. The examples given of what can be eaten are of foods that contain carbs - they may be quite low but they are carbs nonetheless. (Eggs and dairy have carbs.) It would make more sense to remove the article and redirect all searches for No-Carb Diet to the Low-Carb Diet page. And include a note there about the non-existence of this diet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.165.123 (talk) 05:20, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

One of the original modern proponents of the "Zero Carb" diet, and possibly the originator of the name, Owsley Stanley, aka the bear (whose page links to this page). He said the following on his forum thread (which is also linked to in the sources of his article). Unfortunately it's very difficult to link to this gigantic forum post directly, but this text is a direct quote.:

I call my way zero-carb which is perhaps a bit misleading, as it is virtually impossible in the real world to eat no carbs at all and still have a decent array of food. Many animal-based foods have some small amount of carbs, and some like liver have a lot.. I judge zero-carb as attaining a level of 5gm/day or less. To be practical, zero is only a statement of the ideal. [1]

For this reason I think it would be very reasonable to name this article "Zero Carb Diet" or at least have another article which addresses exactly this as its own diet, since many followers of this diet are at least partly naming it zero carb based on this name.

Of particular importance in differentiating this diet from a standard low carbohydrate diet is the purposeful complete exclusion of another "major" class of nutrient, Fiber. The Zero Carb diet aims to completely remove fiber from plant sources in the diet, in contrast to low carb which regularly use "net carbs" to refer to carbohydrates minus undigestible or resistant fibers. Carnivorism is probably a more "correct" term for this diet, but since the exclusion of all carbohydrates and not just net sugars and starches is the goal, no-carbohydrate is more accurate. Also, since I think this feature of the diet has profoundly different effects compared to a standard low carbohydrate diet, I suggest that it's especially important as a differentiator between this being just "low carb". Martinemde (talk) 20:48, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Organization

Yea I looked at the old carnivorism page (http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Carnivorism&oldid=146752687). The problem both with that page and mine is that the entire concept is summarized but not explained in detail, im just too lazy to meticulously detail and site everything, the people i created this page for were already looking for it in the first place, its here because theres almost no easily found information on this on the internet, even though its in my opinion one of the most important subjects to begin with. Basically what I did was give a summary so I could link all the other documents about it on one page, I personally cannot make unbiased revisions to this page considering im a zealot to this diet and it changed my life, soo if someone less passionate or less biased could take up the burden of organizing this that'd be great, although to completely explain all the biological background behind this reasoning would take quite a bit of space. I'm pleasantly surprised though that someone already attempted to put this on here before, although i disagree about dairy being an acceptable part of zero carb, except for butter, mostly due to the extremely unbalanced calcium-magnesium ratio which in the long run compromises your bone density and tooth health among many other things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.24.81.102 (talk) 06:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Inuit Health

Whoever put the section about the Inuit having high cardiovascular disease in, im deleting it because the tests were performed on Inuit after they were introduced to modern carbohydrate diet, aka these were modern inuit not traditional carb-free population, thus the result is nullified, the inuit are apparently even more sensitive to a high-carb diet than for example a middle-eastern man would be since they have had no exposure to agricultural foods, thus they suffer even higher rates of disease when introduced to such foods, and NO INCIDENCE OF CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE when staying on a zero carb, salt free diet which is their traditional way

Instead of deleting sourced information, please expand the explanation, making sure it is properly sourced. Please also remember to sign your comments. OccamzRazor (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:01, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

The 1972 article referenced showing high Eskimo mortality shows just the opposite. It shows 5/1000 with heart disease in the Eskimo population, and 50/1000 in the caucasion population. -C.M.Kaiser —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.134.136.2 (talk) 20:23, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The statement about Inuit mortality from coronary disease is also inconsistent with comments from the Vilhjalmur Stefansson article, in which mortality is mainly attributed to stroke. Isn't there some process for ensuring internal consistency between separate articles that refer to the same material? My guess is that someone confused cerebrovascular disease with cardiovascular disease. Therefore the article will need to reference these two medical articles and may need to specify explicitly that Inuit have a high risk of haemorrhagic stroke and a low risk of atherosclerotic disease like ischaemic stroke and coronary disease.Beoplayer (talk) 10:35, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Research on effects of no-carbohydrate diet

This section is a little unfair as it skips over the fact that studies performed regarding aerobic performance while on a low carb diet were incredibly flawed. Primarily, the study duration was only 1 week and it has been scientifically shown that it takes upwards of a month for the human body to full adapt to a low/no carb diet. There have been more modern studies done that observe professional athletes in a metabolic ward over the course of several weeks that show endurance drops during the first few weeks and then returns to the previous levels once adaptation is complete. The VO2 max is only about 80%, however, which affects things like weight lifting and sprinting, but this is already mentioned in the article, citing a lack of glycogen.

A more impartial view would be to present these studies as a timeline of scientific inquiry into ketogenic dieting, highlighting that the earlier studies were flawed and more modern studies have 'debunked' these findings (except for anaerobic performance. That part still holds). Will add sources to these studies soon... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.165.139.220 (talk) 19:47, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

the Drew Carey example

I read the article (the link might be broken, i had to use a search engine but it might have been my browser) and I can't understand exactly how it is an example of a "No-Carbohydrate Diet" or a "100% meat" or a "carnivorous" diet to serve as an example of said diets reversing diabetes. It belongs in a diabetes article, not here in my opinion, as Carey doesn't seem to follow any of these specific diets and the article doesn't expicitly mention any medical explanation for the reversal of his diabetes (which if it did and there was a relation, i'd be ok with).

Furthermore, the link mentions "diabetes" and AFAIK acquired diabetes such as Carey's is not the only form of diabetes, hence it doesn't present an generic example of diabetes reversal, rather an example of acquired health problems reversed by a change of diet.

2.85.18.175 (talk) 19:05, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Criticism Section in Serious Need of Expansion

The weight of the scientific evidence is clearly against this type of diet, and this section should reflect that. It's possible to find a few sparse studies showing just about anything; real conclusions need to be confirmed with mountains of data, and with regards to diet, high carbohydrate, low-fat, plant-based diets are healthiest for human bodies. This section needs to include research on the myriad harmful effects associated with animal product consumption, and what basing one's diet completely on these foods can do. This is a fad diet, and one of the more harmful sort.

99.249.253.105 (talk) 22:06, 23 May 2012 (UTC) Kimberly

Negative Health Effects of No-Carb Diet

http://www.livestrong.com/article/386127-the-health-risks-of-no-carbs/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.205.55.139 (talk) 16:44, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll tell you why the "evidence" it's bad is scarce.

Because it doesn't exist, or when it does "exist" it is a badly formulated diet. I've been doing that diet for months and there have been no ill effects. --194.219.233.1 (talk) 17:20, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Missing: reversal of insulin resistance

Insulin resistance is the primary feature of Type 2 diabetes. The usual course of the disease involves many years of high blood sugar readings, frequently in spite of positive changes in diet and exercise. Corresponding to this gradual increase in insulin resistance, patients with type 2 diabetes are usually prescribed ever-increasing dosages and types of medications in an attempt to keep their blood sugar readings under control, usually culminating in the administration of increasing amounts of insulin into fatty tissue sites on the body. Along the way, the liver and kidneys are at risk for their own problems.

There seems to be no alternative for patients with type 2 diabetes, since without treatment the disease can rapidly progress to retinal damage and loss of vision (neuropathy) and reduced blood circulation with the loss of one or more limbs, usually the feet. Left untreated, disorders of various organs may occur, followed by death.

Some qualified doctors with a background in metabolic disorders state that the primary cause of morbid obesity, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, and perhaps circulatory diseases in modern society is due to the great abundance of high carbohydrate foods available in restaurants and supermarkets, and chosen as primary food sources by most of the population (with those eating the diets highest in carbohydrate suffering the most from these disorders).

These doctors help their patients by prescribing very low carbohydrate and high fat diets to induce ketosis, which, after an initial period of change of metabolism, has been reported as reversing insulin resistance and the disorders that flow from it. Administrated insulin then can be reduced and eliminated, resulting in freedom from worry about the progression of symptoms described above. While this is NOT a cure for diabetes type 2, those patients who maintain a ketogenic diet on their own after treatment do not experience a remission of symptoms so long as the diet is continued.

Note 1: although I had the time to write the above preliminary text, someone else, preferably a qualified doctor, should edit this into the article, so that the main reason people adopt this diet is included in the article. As it is, the article is missing its main part.

Note 2: the current set of articles on ketogenic, low-carb, and no-carb diets makes little sense. The reason most people reduce their carbohydrate intake has been explained above. I would recommend that, eventually, these three articles be replaced by one article on ketogenic diet that separately considers its historic use to treat epilepsy and its current use to treat morbid obesity and diabetes. David Spector (talk) 19:35, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Sounds dubious. Sources are needed and they must be WP:MEDRS. Alexbrn (talk) 20:52, 12 August 2018 (UTC)