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Archive 1

Criticism

Seems to be a POV issue here with a slant towards pro-Hawass thinking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Settersr (talk • contribs)


The information needs to be factual and accurate in accordance with WP:V and WP:NOR. Feel free to include other sourced information. Otherwise, I'm removeing the NPOV tag. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 19:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The POV question is valid because the article lacks balance. The most significant criticism of Hawass is that he ejected the archaeologists who discovered secret chambers under the sphinx and in the great pyramid from egypt, stole the results of their studies, destroyed evidence of them being in egypt and then claimed the discovery for himself. I can't remember the details perfectly off the top of my head but I recall him having a position as minister for antiquities (which is not mentioned here) and being kicked out of for corruption. The criticisms against Hawass are damaging in the extreme. There is no point in saying that the article is NPOV because all the sources are factual, the criticisms against Hawass question the validity of those sources. --Spuzzdawg (talk) 04:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


Perhaps it would be of service if the issues in question would be pointed out, instead of a generic "uh, you guys just agree with im". I don't see anything particularly biased in the article. I happen to think mr Hawass is an all-in-all cool guy, and I have tremendous respect for his expertise. I can, however, smell bias a mile away. This article is squeaky clean. In my book. --Tirolion 22:17, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, this article provides simple fact -- here's who Zahi is. I fail to understand the need to insert criticism. In my view it's like posting an article on Ovaltine, and then offering criticism of it. There's a point where a definition needs to be left alone. That said, for those who insist on seeking out and providing criticism of Dr. Hawass, here's a Chronicle article discusing some criticism of him. Missing from the prior criticism edits was source material. I'm not adding a criticism section back in myself, as frankly, I don't see the point. FeralDruid 21:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

This article has a quote from Dr. Hawass that Egyptians are not Arab, are not Black, but does not give additional information about Mr. Hawass's actual position of the ethnicity of Egyptians. What is his stance? Are Egyptians European? Asian? Where else can the man go? This kind of legalism is not needed in science.

Why is it so confusing that Egyptians are Egyptians? Obviously they've had genetic contribution from Greeks, Nubians, Arabs, etc over the millennia, but by virtue of their unique and vast history they are their own ethnic group. Though any Arab-speaking population is often labeled as Arab in the West, it is not uncommon for those outside of the Arabian Peninsula and lower Mesopotamia to identify as Berber, Assyrian, Egyptian, etc. tl;dr Egyptians aren't black, white, Asiatic, Arab, "chock-lit brown, yo", or Pacific Islanders: they are Egyptian. Wormwoodpoppies (talk) 19:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

To the comment above: Well, aren't 'Arab' and 'Black' categories which are somewhat arbitrary anyway? Some dozens of peoples are now labeled 'Arab' in modern racial discourse, and the same goes for the term 'Black.' I think Dr.Hawass' point is that neither of these terms is useful. My father is from the Levant, and to most Europeans, he is Black. To some peoples from Asia, he is an Arab. In reality, he is a combination of more than 4 discrete ethnic groups. Political agendas determine who falls into which categories. 172.169.228.87 (talk) 19:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm just a leetle bit confused---there seems to be a random sentence about ancient astronauts that has wandered in, sourceless and alone. Um, what the heck? All in all, a fine article, perhaps a shade too positive, but relatively balanced for a public-written biography. Just, ancient astronauts? What is THAT sentence doing there?69.157.226.176 (talk) 18:14, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

"Notoriety"

"Notoriety"? Who thinks him notorious, and why? Bastie 06:36, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

He is considered notorious by a lot of ppl because he appears several times on several programs of the History Channel and sometimes appears in the news when something happens in the Valley of the Kings, etc. Flamarande 18:37, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Whoever wrote it probably meant notability. It is a fairly common usage error.--66.153.117.118 23:51, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The man is a total disaster, looking only to publicise himself. Look at the BBC News short on the discovery of a "new" tomb in the Valley of the Kings (Feb 2006). Who has to have his face in the piece? None other than the useless Hawass, talking complete drivel as usual. Look at him when he is filmed looking at any uncovered mummy. No sterile clothing, nothing to stop the mummy being contaminated by him. His one aim in life is to get on TV to publicise how wonderful he is. A lengend in his own fantasy. --Mysterfyde 12:15, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Of course, and Howard Carter is a great British hero. Give me a break. His team cut up the mummy of Tutankhamun into various pieces: the arms and legs were detached, the torso cut in half and the head was severed. Hot knives were used to remove it from the golden mask to which it was cemented by resin. A destructive vandal and a common plunderer by modern standards.
I don´t agree with all of the views of Hawas (in particular his view that all ancient Egyptian artifacts should be returned, because the Egyptian people could not live without them - a fact denied by the nearly 200 years they were not in Egypt) and I certainly think that he promotes himself. But you also must look at him and realize that he is also a "political figure" and that he HAS to promote himself to defend his institute and the artifacts. He simply has to appear in such events. At least as far as I know (And I grant that I don´t know very much about him), he doesn´t sell the national artifacts nor takes any bribes to close his eyes to any plunder. Flamarande 15:47, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
I, too, find the man a bit annoying when he appears on Discovery or History Channel. As for his claim regarding the return of artifacts, what does he base it on? I mean, just how "Egyptian" are the modern inhabitants of the country? RJCraig 09:40, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
They are more Egyptian than any other ppl and live in on the correct location. Flamarande 17:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
What exactly are you getting at, here? Some American "Afrocentrist" nonsense, no doubt. Wormwoodpoppies (talk) 19:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
"Hot knives were used to remove it from the golden mask to which it was cemented by resin."
That's what the egyptians authorities said and is very unlikely. Carter has waited two years before opening the sarcophagus. Why waiting so long and wasting his work after that ? I think they made the mistake and don't want to admit it. And honestly, Hawas is so arrogant ! The guy think he's Indiana Jones (look at his website...) Parokka 22:06, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Sources People!

DO NOT add to the Criticisms section unless you have a source. Angrynight 08:06, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps I should clarify. If the criticism is your own, there are two reasons not to post it. One, it is likely you are not notable enough (See Wikipedia:Notability) that your opinion counts on this encyclopedia. Unless you can warrant your own article, then your criticisms do not count. You may cite criticisms from experts in the field and other relevant people of note. Two, if your are notable enough warrant your own entry in the 'pedia, then it is poor form and disrespectful to edit with a deliberate agenda, while not strictly against wikipedia policies. Angrynight 21:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Dr. Dr.

Citing from WP:NAMES:

Academic and professional titles (such as "Doctor" or "Professor") should not be used before the name in the initial sentence or in other uses of the person's name.

Please do without all these "Dr." --Ben T/C 18:03, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

A reasonable request, I agree. Perhaps you could just go ahead and remove them? Thanks. — Zerida 01:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I have added a criticism

And i will return if it is deleted, you cannot delete valid work just because you like this man. It doesnt violate him it is a statement about his work., and many dont much care for his Hollywood academics.--Halaqah 21:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid your addition doesn't meet Wikipedia's policy on verifiability. I couldn't find any reliable source that connects Mark Christian with Zahi Hawass. The website you cited is your own. The information also constitutes the opinion of a political group. It's poorly written and doesn't add any encyclopedic content to Hawass's biography. Neither does a link to the "racial" controversy article. Read the policy on biography of living persons at the top. I'm deleting it. You may take it to the controversy page, although the sources still have to be reliable. Please, don't edit war over it. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 23:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The site isnt my own, how did you arrive at that. I guess you are here to prevent all critisim of this man. I will have to put a tag on this article. NOV. there has been no discussion. Mark Christian doesnt have to know him, he made a valid argument, your opinion is it is poorly written, just like this entire article is poorly written. it is badly format and lacking in information. it doesnt discuss him in any detail, but you say Marks article is poorly written. p.s if you knew anything about the Arabic language you would know halaqah is like saying school, and i guess you speak arabic so how silly does this look.--Halaqah 00:45, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It not an opinion of a political group it is a critic of his position as a Agent of Europeanized history, which he actually is. By his own words, and his own actions. it even says so in this article Egypt was built by Arabs thats what he says in every tv episode. so i guess no one on earth is allowed to disagree. this default attack to label views you dont understand or agree with as "political" or whatever is the backbone of racism and against plurality. Hawas is a clearly political person, a Arab cultural nationalist.--Halaqah 00:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

As above. And try to be more civil. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 01:33, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Regardless of whether it is you website or not, using that website does not count as a ligit academic source. Just citing a website does not make any point valid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.111.93 (talk) 23:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I do not believe the Afrocentric arguement deserves to be in the criticism section. It seems politically biased due to the fact there is absolutley no evidence for it. Do people really believe race is based on what continent your are in? As if it follows man made political boundries? That is like saying the Rocky mountains cease at Canada's border. If there was more critisism than it might be okay but it is too obscure to add here and seems to politically motivated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.169.218 (talk) 03:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Art Bell

Sombody will want to source and add this, but this person was a VERY frequent guest on Coast to Coast with Art Bell. Jeff Vollmer 11/18/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.43.210.146 (talk) 18:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

A few changes in the links:

  • I'm taking the MySpace link out, as Zahi Hawass' office confirmed this is not maintained by Dr. Zahi or his team.
  • I do have the link for his Facebook account, which is official, should I put this one in? http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=1629846793&ref=mf If so, in which format?
  • I added his new website, leaving the old link intact, as lots of useful info can still be found there.

--Vintagedept (talk) 23:11, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism or Fact

I watch history channel and discovery channel and any other documentary programs religiously. Dr. Hawass is an egoist and media ham, who dominates Egyptology and self aggrandizes himself by requiring he appear in any and all media programs concerning new discoveries in Egyptology. Markacohen (talk) 07:33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

well if there is a source than fine he's a ham, though i don't believe the offical reason given is because he is a ham ,but is the head of antiquities in egypt, but if somebody has a reliable source than add it that he is a ham--Wikiscribe (talk) 15:12, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
What do you call a government director of archeology who makes it mandatory that any new discoveries made by archeologists have to portray the new discovery with Dr. Hawass as the center piece director of any videos, books, news articles, slide show presentations etc.. as the discoverer - with other archeologists pushed into the background?? And if the discovering archeologist doesnt make Hawass as the center, he loses his right to ever work in Egypt again - or they are brushed off as amateurs (read source 7)? Dr. Hawass makes it seem like he was the one who made the discovery, so what do you call someone who is in a position of power who steals the credit of other archeologists / scientists who did all the real leg work? What do you call a person in position of power who creates a bureaucracy so any scientific / archeological studies automatically involve Hawass and Hawass gets credit for work he never did or partially contributed too? What do you call a man who postures in front of the camera while the real archeologist discoverer is shown in the background dusting rocks as though he is a simple assistant or laborer. Dr. Hawass misrepresents himself to the general public, a publich who may not be aficionados in archeology. The general public perceives Hawass as the next "Indiana Jones" as he waddles from one archeological site to another as the leading archeologist in the world with his Indiana Jones Hat and Indian Jones Vest and a government rubber stamp. This behavior is unacceptable and the public has the right to know the truth. Science and Archeology are being held back by the Hawass Ego. Media Ham is too soft, the real word should be Ego Maniac. Markacohen (talk) 09:39, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Several scientists and academics are guilty of that sin, AFAIK. If you don't like him then complain through official channels. Either way provide a credible source and stop ranting. Flamarande (talk) 00:30, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Statement about Jews

I summarized the previous, rather lengthy, section into a single sentence that captures what was there before with a possible POV flavour. This section ought to be relatively short. Hawass is notable for his scientific work and that is where the balance of the article, as a whole, should lie.

Posted from my talk page:

Hello,
Regarding Hawass, your rational for removing the section on his statements was “Reworded (and summarized) section to ensure NPOV (and also to make sure it is balanced with the article's length)). My responses are:
1. I assume that NPOV means neutral point of view. His comments are quoted and therefore are as neutral as can be. There was no editorial opinion from whoever added the quotes.
2. If all sections were edited to make sure they are balanced with the length of the overall entry or with other sections then all Wikipedia entries would be limited in length depending on the amount of information that was added by the creator of the entry. So editing this section in this article for that reason doesn’t sound valid. To achieve a different balance the proper course of action would be to add information or details about the subject to the other sections.
3. Hawass is an internationally recognized authority on archaeology and frequently appears in documentary TV programs. His statements and writings on the subject in this section are highly relevant for those interested in learning more about him without having to click on every citation.
4. Your edit stated "Hawass has been criticized for various comments relating to Jews. He has questioned Jewish influence in America but stated that he does not believe in a "Jewish conspiracy to control the world". The original entry only quoted Hawass and did not express or mention criticism. Your entry quotes his defensive statement but does not provide the context of his original statements which are much more extensive that your summarization as questioning Jewish influence in America.
I suppose I am supposed to check back here for your response.
Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikitruew (talk • contribs) 22:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC) Wikipeterproject (talk) 22:08, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I think it's better (and much more pleasant) to discuss it here and hopefully agree on a good way to include the material. Yes, NPOV means Neutral Point of View. Even though something is a direct quote, it can still be used to colour the article. I am not questioning your motives for wanting to include it, but a rather long quote in a rather short article does give the article a certain flavour. The reason Hawass is included in Wikipedia at all is because he is a notable archaeologist. He is not notable as a social commentator, so his personal views aren't so important unless they relate directly to his work. I think this is important also under the WP:BLP guidelines that people are given a fair go - in this case it seems that Hawass sought to distance himself from the remarks. For the sake of this discussion, I am not at all impressed with the remark as quoted. But my personal view isn't important. I am trying to make sure that the article complies with Wikipedia policy and is completely neutral and also that it focusses on the notable aspects of the subject (the very reason the article is here in the first place). What do you think? Wikipeterproject (talk) 22:18, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Wikitruew, you seem to prefer simply editing and reverting edits to the article, rather than discuss it here - although I note that you did include a suggestion to "go through dispute resolution" in the last revert- I suggest we get a third opinion through WP:3O. Hope that's OK with you. Wikipeterproject (talk) 22:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for opening the discussion. Sorry for the slow replies and lack of coordination. Can't say I know how to sign articles either. My replies follow:

You wrote: “Even though something is a direct quote, it can still be used to colour the article.” A quote is just that, a quote. When a person makes certain statements they are colouring themselves. There is no reason that

You wrote: “a rather long quote in a rather short article does give the article a certain flavour.” In the case of a short article, any additional material will add a certain flavor. Again, I would suggest adding more material about his accomplishments, etc.

You wrote: “he is a notable archaeologist.” That is true and all the more reason that, as a man of science, the views he has stated and written should be seen. What was provided from his TV interview and the article he wrote were short quotes, not the entire transcript or the entire article.

You wrote: “He is not notable as a social commentator, so his personal views aren't so important unless they relate directly to his work.” That sounds to me like a matter of opinion. I don’t see that mentioned anywhere in the policy. Most people have positive and negative attributes. Would we say that someone was a wonderful artist without mentioning some material facts about them just because those facts might be considered negative by some? In addition, given his writings and statements about the Exodus, Moses, etc. (for example see http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=7&id=18410) it would appear that his statements about Jews are directly relevant to his work.

You wrote: “I think this is important also under the WP:BLP guidelines that people are given a fair go.” I don’t see that in the guidelines either, and I don’t see how quoting a person’s statements and writings makes quoting them unfair.

You wrote: “in this case it seems that Hawass sought to distance himself from the remarks.” That is not entirely accurate. The section that we’ve been deleting/undeleting said “Hawass later wrote a clarification, stating that he was contrasting the relative unity of the international Jewish community with…” That is not exactly distancing himself from the statements he made in the TV interview, and it says nothing about the statements he wrote for a newspaper.

You wrote: “I am trying to make sure that the article complies with Wikipedia policy and is completely neutral and also that it focuses on the notable aspects of the subject.” I have read the policy and see nothing that characterizes statements of fact, particularly quoted statements and writings of a noted personality, as being in violation of the policy. What is notable to you may not be notable to others, and vice-versa.

What do I think? I think that it is proper, fair, relevant and in compliance with the BLP to include these quotes in the article. They can rest on their own merit and be evaluated in balance with the rest of the article by the reader. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikitruew (talk • contribs) 22:54, 8 February 2010 (UTC)


I'm curious as to what the 3O (third opinion will be). I did notice that the article that although the that is used to cite the quote is from n online newspaper, it isn't news (it's a Comment/Blog feature of the newspaper). The writer has a very strong opinion about Hawass's views. Having said that, I accept that you are simply using the quote and not the rest of the article. My real concern is that the article stays balanced and true to the subject's notability. I'm not convinced that a notable person's views on any given topic are relevant. Finally, my personal views on notability are not relevant - we have Wikipedia policy and guidelines that define notability. But it's clear that Hawass is notable as an archaeologist and, therefore, that's what the article should talk about. But let's see what the 3O has to say! Thanks, by the way, for being so civil about this discussion! Wikipeterproject (talk) 23:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Third opinion

Hey. To be honest, I think the text Wikitruew added in this edit is pushing a POV of sorts by adding relatively undue weight to his comments. In particular, the use of two blockquotes to add emphasis to his comments, as well as text like "However this was not the only time that Hawass has commented on the Jews." and "London-based Arabic newspaper Al-Sharq Al-Awsat published on January 22, 2009, which is distributed around the world". I therefore prefer Wikipeterproject's version, though I think it could be expanded a bit. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 16:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Break

On 2/18/2010 Wikipeterproject removed the following sentence from the section titled Statements About Jews: In January 2009 he wrote that Judaism is a “false faith” which he said “they forged and contaminated with their poison, which is aimed against all of mankind.”

The reason cited was "Content of sentence not found in citation - besides, the paragraph is sufficient as is - see talk page)" If you read through the referenced page at http://www.memritv.org/report/en/3213.htm you will find the reference which misspelled Hawass as Hawwas. The statement that the "paragraph is sufficient as is" is not correct because it is a section about Hawass's statements about Jews, and this the cited statement is within the context of the section. It is a factual reference and a direct quote to what Hawass wrote. I have therefore reinserted the deleted sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikitruew (talk • contribs) 23:38, 21 February 2010 (UTC) Wikitruew (talk) 00:28, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

We have to stick to the requirements of WP:BLP, which requires that we are very exact about the use of references and information about living people. The quote talks about "the Jews of Palestine" and does not mention Judaism, so it should, at least be quote, accurately. Moreover, WP:BLP requires editors to be "very firm about the use of high quality references. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion." There is a big question whether the source in question is unbiased. It would be much better to use the primary source - i.e. the article in which the quote itself was published. I am not going to remove the quote, because it will just spark an editting war, but if anyone else feels it should go, I won't complain. Wikipeterproject (talk) 12:11, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm sort of in agreement with this. The quotes should be true to the source, so if he said "Jews of Palestine" then that's what we should say. On the other hand, if you look at the source, the second paragraph of comments by him does talk about the Jews at large, but perhaps that would be better quoted on its own. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 13:27, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
There's a difference between "Jews" and "Judaism"... Wikipeterproject (talk) 14:50, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I know that. I didn't see that Wikitruew wrote "Judaism". That's not in the quote per se. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 15:07, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Der Spiegel on Hawass

Der Spiegel has run a very long and not exactly flattering article on Hawass. The bottom line is that Hawass *is* indeed a braggart, a play actor and an egomaniac. Of course the good sides of his work and character are also described, but the general impression is that of a dedicated man who has let himself be overwhelmed by his own public persona.--Insert coins (talk) 13:37, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Director of the Giza Plateau

The article says that Hawass was appointed as ""Director of the Giza Plateau" in 1998. I can't find any sources for the appointment or even the position itself. Does anyone actually know what it is? If you can find a reference to the appointment, it would be good to add it! Thanks Wikipeterproject (talk) 23:09, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

A source on the article, "Archaeological Developments at Giza", by Robert Bauval (~1996) says "Dr. Bakr fired the Chief Inspector of the Giza Pyramid Plateau, Dr. Zahi Hawass, although .." John Vandenberg (chat) 10:13, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Maimonides Synagogue incident

The part where it details where Hawass stated that the cancellation was a "strong slap in the face" to "the Zionist enemy", there is a source for that, as well as a citation needed tag. I have not seen such a circumstance before, where a citation needed tag and an actual citation are side-by-side with one another. However, I will not remove the citation needed tag just yet, although I probably wouldn't place the citation needed tag there if I was confronted with this phrase. I'm just wondering why it is there in the first place. Does there need to be a source which details him actually saying that, such as a video or an official statement released by Zahi Hawass, or is the citation needed tag made redundant by source 25? Thanks. Backtable Speak to meconcerning my deeds. 05:32, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

NPOV

The following text, "In July 2003, the Egyptians demanded the return of the Rosetta Stone", is in the Rosetta Stone article as "In July 2003, on the occasion of the British Museum's 250th anniversary, Egypt first requested the return of the Rosetta Stone".

I don't think that's Neutral POV, due to the word "demanded". 98.127.168.159 (talk) 08:36, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately neither link in the citations for this go to the reference article, so its a bit difficult to check what they say, but I changed the wording to "requested", which is perhaps more neutral. Wikipeterproject (talk) 09:48, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

A quick search on the web found the article titled "Egypt demands return of the Rosetta Stone" at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/1436606/Egypt-demands-return-of-the-Rosetta-Stone.html. Wikitruew (talk) 22:03, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Given his statement as follows, the word "demanded" sounds accurate.

"Otherwise I will have to approach them using a different strategy. There are various stages to our negotiations. I don't want to fight anyone now, but if the British Museum doesn't act, we will have to employ a more aggressive approach with the Government. I don't care if people know my strategy, the artefacts stolen from Egypt must come back." Wikitruew (talk) 22:10, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
The statement in the article said that Egypt (not Hawass) "demanded" the return. I don't think it's overly POV to use the word "demanded", but "requested" is less emotive and, when it relates to the Egyptian government's official request, probably more accurate. Hawass, in commenting on the request worded it more strongly as a "demand", but the statement, as it stands, is about Egypt's "request". Wikipeterproject (talk) 23:16, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

What "evidence" did he provide to show that Egyptians and NOT slaves built the Pyramids ? ? ?

If he provided evidence, then it should be listed in the article, however it's not.

The passage is vague and should be removed if it cannot be proved! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.202.81.13 (talk) 00:39, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

And where is the evidence that SLAVES built the pyramids?? Karnak666 (talk) 11:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. Call me lazy but hasn't it just always been a known fact that slaves weren't involved in building pyramids? Dr. Hannibal Lecter 03:43, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Nope. A lot of people believed, and still do, that slaves were used (for instance Jewish, although the time period is wrong). He and Lehner found the workmen's village and evidence that they had a relatively comfortable life. Doug Weller (talk) 05:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

While there is clearly no current evidence that people who were slaves in the modern sense of the word built the pyramids, there is also no evidence suggesting that those who built the pyramids chose 'pyramid-building' as their profession. Therefore, it is entirely possible that those who built the pyramids did not have a choice in doing so. The almost nationalistic fervor that some scholars attach to non-slaves building the pyramids as a matter of 'Egyptian pride' is something that should be taken into consideration as a potential bias. It is somewhat surprising that this bias exists in the first place, as the constructed socio-ethnic identity of modern 'Egyptians' is a much more recent invention and really has nothing to do with Ancient Egypt, its culture or its people, despite what nationalists may say to the contrary. --69.127.21.238 (talk) 19:43, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

It could be argued that all Egypcians were slaves/servants of the kings. --98.212.30.23 (talk) 19:24, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
This is something that we archaeologists laugh about. We always say "oh how silly were as kids to think this." etc. We do need a source on this though, not just common knowledge. I remember once someone saying that if I said there was a bucket in a picture on this site, I'd need a source saying said bucket was there. Yes that was on Encyclopedia Dramatica and yes that article was funny. In this case though it's slightly less obvious and as it's not apparent to everyone that Egyptians built the pyramids. We Jews never had a real presence west of the Sinai for the most part, even before Israel (by current accepted theory). Would someone be a dear and dig up some reliable sources on the origins of the pyramids? And for God's sake don't use Van Daniken!
Re: the above comment btw, there is a saying that no slave labour no matter how brutal can construct such wonders. Hpelgrift (talk) 05:04, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

What is a media ham?

Article says "He is also considered a media ham, requiring to be documented in any published videos involving important or new Egyptian discoveries." I'm sorry but I can't find what media ham means at all. 75.248.43.42 (talk) 19:12, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

thats because it's most likley vandalism--Wikiscribe (talk) 19:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
It's true, it is vandalism, even though it does pretty much describe the man. To answer your question though, it means that he puts on a show for the various television and internet media outlets and yes does in fact take credit for any and all recent finds of significance in Egypt as well as inserts himself into many shows about it (mostly to put an Egyptian face on everything rather than just Western). It's all pretty much true, but even if it were in a reputable source it's still pretty much an attack on the man and also partly opinion based. TheArchaeologist 08:28, 22 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpelgrift (talk • contribs)

Hawass' anti-Beyonce comment.

He said a horrible, sexist thing about singer Beyonce - he called her stupid! That should be in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.101.2.241 (talk) 13:19, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Where and why? This article already has perhaps more than enough negative on Hawass. ScottyBerg (talk) 13:31, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Questions to ask on this: When and why would he make such a statement? Who on this Earth cares if he did? Who on this Earth reported it (that is of note)? Even if he did do this how is calling someone stupid sexist? Just because she is a woman doesn't make it sexist. When Obama called Kanye West a jerk, no one said the wife half of him (not that I think of him that way, this is how "they" would put it) was being racist. If someone called me stupid I would not say they were being anti-semetic; though I could probably convince people they were in fact being anti-semetic the same way you seem to be convinced it was sexist. Now if she said something like a women belongs in the kitchen/bed etc then it would be a different story, but I still doubt it would be very notable. TheArchaeologist 08:38, 22 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpelgrift (talk • contribs)

Corruption

"he doesn´t sell the national artifacts nor takes any bribes" (above). Is that for sure? There are many rumours to the contrary. Only rumours, however. One thing is sure. Returning artifacts disappear mysteriously, with NO INVESTIGATION!--Connection 18:40, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

You'd better have a good reference for this comment. Markh 16:21, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Currently, I have no document referece. Yet, according to reliable witnesses, he receives bribes for land-use permits, that is, for the Council of Antiquities Clearance.--Connection (talk) 22:53, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Looking for documented evidence against Hawass for corruption charges? Look at a book called Secret Chamber: The Quest For The Hall of Records by Robert Bauval - The second half of the book is pretty much about nothing except how much of an asshole Hawass is. --Spuzzdawg (talk) 13:37, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I am no fan of Hawass, but Bauval is not a reliable source. TheEasternWind (talk) 11:47, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Even though it is highly unlikely any actual legal action would come about. It is best to be careful when saying something that serious about a living person and presenting it as fact. Unless you put something like "it is my personal opinion that..." you can get sued for libel or is it slander? I forget which is written, oh well. Anyway, you can't put your personal opinion into the article of course. So always tread carefully in this sort of thing. Assume that the person or estate of the person you are dealing with will read it. If you can find a New York Times article that is on a sting that caught him selling various artifacts to collectors (a great sin archaeology of course except in very very rare cases) you should not put it up. I am an ultra-Zionist Jew and archaeologist, I have little love for Zahi or his ideals, but I do believe in fairness in places such as this. TheArchaeologist 08:58, 22 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpelgrift (talk • contribs)

I think this should be added, no ? link : http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_2243339,00.html It shows how much this guy is running after royalties. Parroka 22:06, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

To add the the previous person's "comment" about slaves building the pyramids, There are known worker's villiages with burial grounds within the area of the Giza Plateau, if the Pharoahs were planning to spend eternity within their respective tombs, why would they want to be within the porximity of mere slaves, It would have been seen as an honor to be buried so near to the final home of the pharoahs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.30.73.239 (talk) 19:32, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Hence the great number of royal and noble tombs around the pyramids, now that is thinking like an archaeologist. :) TheArchaeologist 09:26, 22 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hpelgrift (talk • contribs)

New Government in Egypt, what about Zahi?

So Mubarak is trying to cover his ass (this is obvious to anyone really) by appointing a new government cabinet and all. Regardless of whether this will work, is there any news on how this affects our good doctor? I met him btw. Slippery fellow with my questions. I asked about the Valley of the Nobles and he knew instinctly I was concerned about him removing the village that was built over it. I don't even remember hinting at it, and yet he knew. Must be a good PR fellow. Anyway, get the story people! Hpelgrift (talk) 04:59, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I've cringed for years watching Hawass on television, as it was always clear to me that he was the PR/tourism mouthpiece for the Mubarak regime first, and a scientist second. A post near the top of this page mentions one of his more maddening habits of handling mummies and other ancient artifacts with his bare hands, even with everyone else around him wearing gloves. His presence in any discovery has also always been farcical, as no field archaeologist could possibly be active in so many trenches simultaneously. With the events of the past month, it will be very interesting to see if Hawass manages to hang on. It is fair to say that many very talented, young Egyptian archaeologists owe him a debt of gratitude, and it will be a positive thing for science and this man's legacy if the Revolution makes way for greater professionalism. Then again, if Hawass follows Mubarak out the door, neither the Discovery Channel nor the History Channel will have at their disposal a comical old man dressed up like an Urban Sombrero Indiana Jones to show them around the sites of Egypt. Needless to say, this article will have some interesting developments in the coming months. Hiberniantears (talk) 23:16, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Haha, I liked the last bit. It might be that any news of him won't come out for a long while though. Think of a "whatever happene

d to Zahi" thing? Non-Egyptians are not actually permitted to dig btw, it's mostly those clever Guftis (who don't have their own article!!!!!). Being a field archaeologist there means you just sit on your rear doing administrative work and I guess maybe acting as an Area director. Takes most of the fun out of archaeology in my opinion. I suggest keeping an eye out. Maybe a monthly Google news search for Zahi. TheArchaeologist 09:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

OH MY GOD!! <--- He IS resigning. Yes, that shouting was necessary, it's pretty shocking. TheArchaeologist Say Herro 23:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Probably something about possible complicity in the usage of the National Museum of History as a torture compound during the protests should be mentioned. IIRC the regime and Hawass personally blamed damage in it on the protestors at the time? 87.121.52.19 (talk) 13:40, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

http://art-for-a-change.com/blog/2011/02/the-museum-at-the-center-of-egypts-revolution.html

Full Minister?

So from what I can see here, he is no longer "Head Councillor of the Supreme Council of Antiquites", but is now a full Minister in the cabinet? Is this the case or what? I think we need some clarification is the title istelf has changed. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 21:49, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


On/Off minister, could lose the job again. that is why there is a recent events tag. - Anon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.169.93.118 (talk • contribs)

The fact he just got the position by default a few days ago and that he could be replaced again is recentism. Refer to http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Recentism -- Some editors employ the recentism tag Recentism at the top of articles to warn the reader that the content may be tilted toward recent perspectives. user_talk:Mokaiba11

No, you're conflating "recentism" with a situation warranting the use of the {{current}} tag, which is also not usable in this instance. The "recentism" tag is unjustified as it gives the mistaken impression that the article is incorrectly skewed toward recent events. It is not to be used simply because the subject of an article receives more recent coverage than past coverage. That is actually quite commonplace. In this instance, Hawass has become something of a lightning rod since the Egyptian revolution, hence the front page New York Times article. ScottyBerg (talk) 12:52, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Works

What does this mean?: "Many of his books coincide with his positions of Ancient Egypt."? Myrvin (talk) 12:08, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

A poorly worded way of saying that the books he writes (on Ancient Egypt Egypt mostly) are in line with what he thinks about Ancient Egypt. It is like saying that the moisture on the ground during a rainstorm "coincides" with its wetness. Long story short: It's a redudant statement that serves no purpose. TheArchaeologist 08:31, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it is a poorly worded way of saying that his books reflect his theories on Ancient Egypt. It is worth saying that many of his theories have little support but he presents them as though they are facts. That's a hard statement to make in an article like this as the statement itself has to be supported. Well, maybe not so difficult to say. I'm sure one can find many sources. 75.48.4.81 (talk) 01:37, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Image

Has anyone noticed that it says "FUCK" in the background of the portrait, just to the left of Mr. Hawass' head? 67.162.113.16 (talk) 13:00, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It does say that, and it looks like it's a digital alteration, rather than part of the original photograph, at least to me. I commented it out; having a photo like this is possibly vandalism, and I don't have any photo-editting software to fix it. siafu (talk) 15:22, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I do not see anything. 63.3.2.1 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:17, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

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Where is he?

Since the charges of smuggling antiquities were made against him he seems to have disappeared. November 2011. 75.48.4.81 (talk) 01:34, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

There is a very pro-Hawass slant in this article, even to the point of leaving a lot of information out. 75.48.4.81 (talk) 01:34, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

It took a few years, but I noticed that he turned up in this months Archaeology Magazine in an advertisement for a guided tour of sites in Egypt. Hiberniantears (talk) 11:53, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
Hawass is a smiling dusk-hearted viper. He'll always resurface, as long as there are cameras and credulous people willing to eat up his self-aggrandizing anecdotes. 24.5.101.135 (talk) 23:55, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

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Why is he not a professor

Why is he not a professor as has so much knowledge of antiquities on epypy than a professor? 82.10.10.206 (talk) 19:21, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

NPOV? only “claimed” discoveries?

Hard to believe he never found anything. Does that section even belong? Doug Weller talk 17:38, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

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