Talk:USS Coontz

Frigates

I really didn't think that anyone would contest the change I made, changing the definition of the hull designation of DLG from "Frigate" to "Destroyer Leader", but here we are.

If you go to the U.S. Navy's website [1] and search for "DLG", you will find a series of articles in which DLG is either defined as "guided missile destroyer" or guided missile destroyer leader". There are only two pages that define DLG as "guided missile frigate" and one is a copy of the other.

In addition, no one I know that ever served aboard a DLG (while it was a DLG) would have called their ship a "frigate".

The only reference to them being Frigates in the Navy.mil website is on a handful of ship histories, but not all of them.

I don't know who called them "frigates" but the Navy doesn't (and didn't) and the sailors that served on them don't (and didn't.)

I also would like to call your attention to the USS Norfolk (DL-1), the USS Mitscher (DL-2), the USS John S. McCain (DL-3), the USS Willis A. Lee (DL-4), and the USS Wilkinson (DL-5). If a DL is a Destroyer Leader, why isn't a DLG a Guided Missile Destroyer Leader?

-TCav 01:02, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually I served aboard the USS Coontz from 1975 to 1980 just after the change and I had read the ship's history while aboard. The designation DLG was for Destroyer Leader Guided Missile she was never classified as a Frigate and ships of her size with the 5"/54 and missile house reversed were considered Cruisers. There is ample proof of her designations and at that time calling a 5,500 ton 535 foot long destroyer that outsized and outgunned a Charles F. Adams class destoyer a frigate would have gotten more than a few raised eyebrows. At one time they were considered some of the most powerful AA platforms that the US Navy had. Tirronan 17:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Please see centralized discussion at Talk:USS Fox (CG-33). TomTheHand 15:07, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

USN Ship Designations

This link explains that use of DLG by the USN and goes to the Coontz class by special mention in the DD section please use this and look at it before making anymore changes to the frigate designation. [[2]]. Also note that the USN decided that they were Guided missile Destroyers and that they spent the last 15 years as this designation. A lot of us are sensitive on how our ships are designated myself included as I served on her for 4.5 years.

The designations "Cruiser," "Destroyer" and "Frigate" were a source of some confusion in the USN during the 1970s. Existing US carrier escorts were designated as Frigates (DLG and DLGN), but foreign warships of the size of US Frigates were generally classified as destroyers or cruisers. The USN was also applying the term "Patrol Frigate" or "PF" to the much smaller USS Oliver Hazard Perry class of convoy escorts then being designed. This usage was more in line with the "Frigate" designation as used in foreign navies, where it was usually given only to smaller warships of about the same size as the Perrys. On 30 June 1975, this issue was partially resolved when the following reclassifications were made:

Most DLG and DLGN Frigates were redesignated as Guided Missile Cruisers CG and CGN, with these warships retaining their original hull numbers (CG/CGN-16 through 40). This reclassification resulted in hull number CG-15 not being assigned. In addition, USS Arkansas, originally planned as DLGN-41, was commissioned on 18 October 1980 as CGN-41. An unnamed Virginia class warship, CGN-42, was cancelled in 1976, then redesigned and but again cancelled in 1978, 1979 and finally in 1983. Due to their smaller size, the Farragut class Frigates (DLG-6 through DLG-15) were reclassified as Guided Missile Destroyers and given new hull numbers in that series (DDG-37 through DDG-46). The remaining CLG cruisers that were still active or in reserve were redesignated as CG and retained their existing hull numbers. Existing Guided Missile Escorts (DEG-1 to DEG-6) were redesignated as Guided Missile Frigates (FFG-1 to FFG-6) and those Escorts (DE) still in commission were redesignated as Frigates (FF) and retained their existing hull numbers. USS Oliver Hazard Perry herself was commissioned on 17 December 1977 as FFG-7. This reclassification was incomplete, as the new Ticonderoga class Aegis missile ships were still planned to be designated as Guided Missile Destroyers (DDG-47 class), even though they were much larger vessels than the redesignated conventionally-powered cruisers (ex-DLG, now CG). Finally, on 1 January 1980, the Ticonderoga class DDGs were redesignated as CGs and Ticonderoga herself was commissioned on 22 January 1983 as CG-47. As the Ticonderoga class retained their originally planned hull numbers, this left a gap in the missile cruiser hull series sequence and hull numbers CG-43 to CG-46 were never assigned to any ship. There was some thought that these unused numbers could be assigned to the new generations of nuclear-powered missile cruisers then being discussed (the revamped CGN-42 and CSGN classes), but none of these were ever built. This redesignation of the early members of the Ticonderoga class also left a gap in the missile destroyer hull series sequence and hull numbers DDG-47 to DDG-50 were not reassigned to any ship. USS Arleigh Burke, the first of a new class of missile destroyers, was commissioned on 4 July 1991 as DDG-51.

Note that the Flight IIA Arleigh Burke's are as heavy as Tico's and are still DDG... the confusion continues! Tirronan 20:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. Referencing and appropriate inline citation guidelines not met. With appropriate citations and references, this article would easily qualify as B class if not higher. --dashiellx (talk) 15:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Farragut/Coontz class destroyers

Wikipedia states that, once decomissioned, the entire class hulls were scraped. Nevertheless, Armada de México currently operates at least one of that class ships, perhaps two: ARM Netzahualcoyotl D 102 for sure, according to recent photos. The possible one is ARM Manuel Azueta D 111, but unfortunately no photos are available. I don't think that a deal of this kind could be managed without the approval of both governments. Which Coontz class vessel is ARM Netzahualcoyotl? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.182.154.94 (talk) 02:23, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Class Name

Years ago, this class was known as the "COONTZ-Class", not the "FARRAGUT-Class". The reason was that the lead ship of a new class of "destroyer leaders" (DLs) was laid down and designed without guided missiles, and was named the FARRAGUT. During construction her design (along with that of LUCE and MACDONOUGH, my first ship) was modified to add guided missiles. The first ship of the class to have her keel laid as a guided missile destroyer was COONTZ, so the class was named after her. At least in the 80's the ships were generally referred to as the "COONTZ-Class", or sometimes as the "37-Class" (to recognize FARRAGUT and her sisters LUCE and MACDONOUGH) - or so my memory serves me... 198.7.238.40 (talk) 15:43, 27 March 2012 (UTC) Anthony Cowden