Talk:Turkish coffee/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Variations: "Bosnia and Herzegovina"

The way to make Turkish coffee described unter this section is not exclusive (except maybe for the name mentioned) to Bosnia and Herzegovina, but common in other parts of Ex-Yugoslavia as well. I do not come from there, but I know at least people from Croatia and Slovenia making coffee (called simply "coffee") there exactly that way. So the section "Bosnia and Herzegovina" should probably be replaced by "Former Yugoslavia", "Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Herzegovina", simply "Balkans", or something similar. --Mottenkiste (talk) 21:35, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Greek coffee

Someone seems to be having an issue with this section, and insists on continuing to blank it.

Personally I have no involvement or connection to the article, nor any investment in the content beyond my desire that all articles on the wiki be complete and of high-quality. However, I note that the content seems to be properly sourced and formatted. It would be helpful if all involved could work together to maintain WP:NPOV, and if this content does not reflect that, or is not entirely complete and therefore not adequately inclusive, perhaps those who are regularly involved in the editing and maintenance of this article would be willing to work together to improve this section thusly? besieged^talk 14:48, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

@Besieged: I share your sentiments. But the real problem here (as I see it) is that the blankings are being done by an IP address who hasn't really explained why they disapprove of the material. If that IP address would engage in discussion here, I think we could indeed have a useful discussion. NewYorkActuary (talk) 17:28, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

@NewYorkActuary:Indeed, that is what I was hoping to spur, and left a message on the user's talk page to that effect. The user in question is currently blocked from editing the article for 48 hours as a result of Admin Noticeboard report for edit warring, and I'm hoping the cool-down period will, along with my message to them, will encourage them to join a discussion here. besieged^talk 17:54, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

@Besieged:National chauvinism often rears its ugly head in articles about foods -- and their names -- that are shared among the former Ottoman countries. The passage about the name "Greek coffee" vs. "Turkish coffee" is not only "properly" sourced, but one of the sources (Browning) is a top scholar of Greek. We have had similar issues in Gyro (food)#Name article.

In fact, Doner kebab, Shawarma, and Gyro (food) really should be a single article based on content, but all of the nationalities involved object to that.... Can you imagine breaking out sausage into separate articles by language?: wurst, saucisse, salsiccia, etc.? --Macrakis (talk) 18:54, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

@Macrakis:That's why I kept reverting his/her blanking of the content - and eventually reported the edit war - because as far as I could tell, the sources in question seemed quite credible. besieged^talk 20:19, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

@Besieged:Greek coffee has been around long before 1965, this author is a liar. Calling greek coffee turkish, is offensive. 79.129.243.213 (talk) 14:40, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@79.129.243.213:You may be right that it was sometimes called "Ελληνικός" before 1965. Do you have any evidence? (WP:RS) As for "offensive", "Τούρκικος καφές" is a well-established usage in Greek. --Macrakis (talk) 15:15, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@Macrakis:Of course it is, it is used to refer to turkish coffee, not Greek coffee. As for the so called "reliably sourced content" all the sources refer to is the Turkish invasion of Cyprus and the Greek–Turkish relations, nothing to do with coffee. Greek coffee is far superior in flavour and aroma and has nothing to do with the Turkic variant. As for "offensive", i believe he meant it is offencive to call Greek coffe "Turkic".46.198.138.49 (talk) 21:23, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@79.129.243.213:Quite some claims. Do you have any reliable sources for any of this?

As for the sources saying something about coffee, Mikes says "Now that they are quarrelling with the Turks over Cyprus, Turkish coffee has been renamed Greek coffee". That seems pretty clear. Browning is quoted in the article: "τούρκικος καφές [Turkish coffee] became ελληνικός καφές [Greek coffee]". In what sense does that have "nothing to do with coffee"?

Browning, by the way, is a noted philhellene, and the cited source, Medieval and Modern Greek, a highly regarded handbook. Check out his wikipedia page. --Macrakis (talk) 22:08, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

I have added some additional sources. --Macrakis (talk) 22:37, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Greek coffee is not Turkish coffee but a different blend and roast. One well know brand is Papagalos Loumidis greek coffee that has been produced since the 1920s. There is plenty of space on this world for different coffees to match different palates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.194.220.250 (talk) 22:30, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Arab heritage in the history section

This style of coffee brewing is best known as "Turkish coffee" (i.e., from the Ottoman Empire), but shouldn't the history section mention it's Arab origin? After all, it's the Arabs in the Ottoman Empire that brought coffee drinking to Istanbul. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.23.87.18 (talk • contribs) 04:37, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Am I understanding Turkish coffee right?

Based on the article, I am getting the impression that Turkish coffee is typically sweetened unfiltered pour-over espresso (espresso is finely-ground coffee beans, maybe of a certain roast). Is that correct? 2601:645:100:8380:0:0:0:BC87 (talk) 05:36, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Turkish coffee is boiled - that is, the coffee powder is actually kept in boiling water for a significant time. IAmNitpicking (talk) 16:58, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

The person in charge of this page seems racist

As a respected scholar, and scientist, I try to change the data on here. It says for example that "Country of Origin - Constantinople" ... Constantinople is not a country! It was the capital city of the Roman/Byzantine Empire (330–1204 and 1261–1453), and also of the brief Latin (1204–1261), and the later Ottoman (1453–1923). In addition there is no evidence stating that the Turks created or invented the coffee. The Armenians lived in the region long before the Turks and have been using and preparing it the same way long before. In addition , the first picture of coffee being prepared is in Armenian china not Turkish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.157.220.254 (talk • contribs) 19:36, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi. I noticed your comment that for some reason no one replied to. In the hopes that you one day read my reply, let me tell you that not one specific person is in charge of Wikipedia article's pages. In general, anyone can edit them, even unregistered people. In fact, you can make the changes you deem fit in this article.

But said changes need to comply with the policies of Wikipedia. For example, they need to be backed up by reliable sources. In addition, most of the time they need to also comply with guidelines and be accepted by consensus.

If you can't edit a page that is protected, you would need to make an edit request. Cheers! Thinker78 (talk) 19:42, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Revert

@Ttocserp: made a revert of my edit, stating, "Not significant enough for lede section ,and cited source is only a blog, marginally acceptable in Wikipedia if at all; move further down. Breadth of assertion ("throughout the world") not supported by cited source; amend accordingly."

I have to reply,

1. I believe it is significant enough to be included in the lead because it is about the name of the subject and its controversy.
2. The cited source, NPR, as far as I know is not a blog, but a major media organization funded in part by the federal government of the USA.
3. My edit did not state "throughout the world", but rather "around the world", which is different. Around means according to Merriam Webster dictionary, "on various sides", "here and there : from one place to another", definition that is supported by the source, which mentions several countries that have the controversy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thinker78 (talk • contribs) 00:45, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

References

Serving size?

What I find missing from this article is information about how to put together a reference cup of the stuff. What size of cup is it served in? How much coffee is used? How much water? 2003:F5:FF0E:53F5:4DF2:1D33:E740:429F (talk) 09:11, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Like playing the piano, it takes practice. I've put in a section explaining the ideal.Ttocserp 03:00, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Predatory source

Whatever be the status of Pakistan Journal of Nutrition, it is a valid citation for this particular purpose. It is cited to show, not that Turkish coffee originated in Damascus, but that its authors have claimed it did. This is distinctly stated in the text of the article. Ttocserp 08:14, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

This is simply WP:UNDUE. We don't need to repeat claims made in non-serious venues. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 18:35, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Predatory journals are certainly a serious concern; on that we can agree. However, the Küçükkömürler and Özgen paper was published in 2009; at that time the Pakistan Journal of Nutrition was included in Scopus, and was not in Beall's list. That it was a "non-serious venue" then, has not been established. In what forum?

As for WP:UNDUE, this is not a fringe theory but a highly plausible claim, since the Middle East coffeehouse originated in Damascus and was brought to Istanbul by Syrians. I shall add a citation to that effect. Ttocserp 11:08, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

PJN was not in Beall's list at the time because Beall's list did not exist in 2009. It's publisher ANSINET/Asian Network for Scientific Information, is listed in Beall. This is not a reliable source, and we should not repeat those claims in Wikipedia voice. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 10:05, 16 June 2024 (UTC)