Talk:Trust, but verify

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

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Made for Doveriai, no proveriai, Trust but verify, Trust, but verify, Trust, but Verify and Trust but Verify. --Yuriy Lapitskiy 14:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Already in the Bible

{Heading added by Steue (talk) 06:49, 2 June 2022 (UTC)}[reply]

....Reagan's motto of “trust but verify”, which is an English translation of biblical Hebrew “Kapdeu v Hashdeu”,.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.177.128.69 (talk) 17:32, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Damon Runyon

Google reveals no connection between Damon Runyon and "Trust, but verify" that predates Wikipedia, Wikiquote, and thinkexist.com. Everyone seems to be convinced that Runyon has been quoted as saying this, but there's not a single reference to back it up. Wikiquote and thinkexist.com use their own readers as sources. We're going to need to search other databases in order to find a reference linking Runyon to this phrase. —mjb (talk) 02:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unclear Acronym "PBs"

{Added "PBs" into the heading by Steue (talk) 06:53, 2 June 2022 (UTC)}[reply]

In the sentence " Major Coombs also used this phrase with PBs." could someone please articulate what the acronym "PBs" means? Savlonn (talk) 17:00, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Savlonn,

This sentence meanwhile was removed from the article.

This Sentence was put into the article under an IP-address.
So, we can't ask this editor.

My advice: check PB ! or ask Google: "PB meaning?"

Steue (talk) 08:40, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"trust but verify" dates back at least to the Kennedy Administration

{Heading added and signature moved under! the contribution, by Steue (talk) 06:58, 2 June 2022 (UTC)}[reply]

I just read an article that suggests that "trust but verify" dates back at least to the Kennedy Administration. So if it was also used by Vladimir Lenin the origins of the expression needs more work, and it is interesting that Reagan amd his followers used the expression without attributing its origins. The reference is to a book called "Brothers". I haven't had time to run down the source yet but that does suggest that "first popularized" is the right expression here. Chris holte (talk) 10:27, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It dates back further. In grew up around service members that fought for the Marines in the Pacific, they always said trust but verify. When I Went in the corps in boot camp and ITR I was taught the same thing when in combat. 108.238.31.95 (talk) 04:23, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

meaning of "Trust, but verify"

This wiki shows only where the phrase originated and how it's used, but it doesn't say what it means. The meaning behind the phrase should be the very first sentence. Will someone update this? Terrence32 (talk) 17:53, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A friend of mine had a similar saying: "Love them in the Lord, but get it in writing." Angr (talk) 01:17, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not convinced that we got the meaning right. Isn't the proverb used precisely when you don't trust someone? In other words, the first part is just rhetorical. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Josefhoracek (talk • contribs) 20:45, 8 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is used when you do trust someone, and it is not limited to circumstances of receiving information; when you rely on someone else's deeds, not just words, the saying also works. The meaning is that while you have the feeling of trust, it is better to not rely on the feeling and check for yourself if it works as expected. - 89.110.21.139 (talk) 04:50, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You mean, as in saying I'll trust you in advance, but at a later point I'll check whether you didn't abuse my trust [and then I'll possible adjust my attitude towards you]? Would that be accurate? 92.196.21.233 (talk) 21:52, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I just added a statement that points to the oxymoronic nature of this saying. I suggest that the article needs a section that addresses this point, with citations of those who were highly critical to this very aspect.--Invent2HelpAll (talk) 08:18, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's not at all oxymoronic, actually, and both its parts are used to full meaning, not just "rhetorical". I am referring to the Russian saying, I am not talking of the English translation, of course. - 89.110.21.139 (talk) 04:56, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, to be more precise: the meaning is full, but the trust is not, obviously. Yet, the trust is there and is mentioned seriously; whether as an actual fact of the soul's life, or as a feeling performed for courtesy and for common sense rather than for its own inevitability, depends on the speaker. - 89.110.21.139 (talk) 05:05, 1 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted your edit, please do not add unsourced material or original research. It is one thing to discuss it on the talk page, another to add your personal views to the article. Helen Online 08:20, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Response

The next day, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in reply to a question as to what she thought about the "Trust but verify" plan, she is reputed to have said "No, just verify" Smart lady, 36 years later there are more nuclear armed countries than ever, and both the USA and Russia are still nuclear armed enough to destroy each otherHistorygypsy (talk) 01:07, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Airbrushing Lenin ?

"airbrushing", here, I guess, means: "not ! mentioning a fact".

For a definition of the term "airbrushing" (a person) see:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/airbrushing

Steue (talk) 07:23, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is very interesting that this English-language piece does not mention that the saying was Lenin's ! See the German and French pages : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faites_confiance,_mais_vérifiez — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.11.99.202 (talk) 11:05, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any reason you haven't added it here (with sources of course)? Anyone can edit Wikipedia, and if you don't feel comfortable editing it yourself, you can post an edit request here. There is no need to make insinuations of "airbrushing". That would be quite hard to do seeing as the whole world can edit Wikipedia if they want to. Helen Online 12:18, 19 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A Russian proverb?

Just so you know, we have that in Czech language aswell - „Důvěřuj, ale prověřuj."

Other versions of the proverb might exist in other Slavic languages aswell, but I don’t know for sure. Unfortunately I don’t have enough time to do the research now, but someone else may consider if it’s worth doing it and editing this passage of the article then.

Dash3698 (talk) 08:32, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok Meodomain (talk) 04:30, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Has also been widely used in discussing the response to rape claims

as a counterpart to the "always believe women" approach. 2A00:23C5:FE18:2700:38A4:AA9:6033:D189 (talk) 01:49, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

East German version

In the German Democratic Republic (GDR, East Germany) there was a (very often ?) used East German version of this:

"Vertrauen ist gut, Kontrolle ist besser." (Trust is good, verification is better.)

The fact that this saying was used in the GDR, even was (broadly ?) known in Western Germany, already in the seventies.

Steue (talk) 07:34, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wow

I'm surprised there isn't a WP:ESSAY named after this principle FLIPPINGOUT (talk) 19:53, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Usually essays are written as an advise, e.g., as an "exegesis" of our guidelines, typically based on the personal or community experience, to address common problems.

All cultures have thousands of "words of wisdom" and we do not write essays based on them, but rather vice versa: we identify an issue in Wikipedia and then write policies, guidelines, and essays on how to handle the issue. In doing this we may refer to words of wise men.

Now,

what issue may benefit from an essay based on "trust but verify"?
what existing essay may benefit from the incorporation of this adage?
is it worth effort?
Or maybe apply another popular Russian say "От работы кони дохнут" (A work may kill a horse)? :-) --Altenmann >talk 20:08, 26 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hadith similar?

Is that really similar? Nothing is being verified. Christians and Jews have similar concepts about God/YHWH in the Bible and Torah, but they don't bear any similarities with this saying and wouldn't be appropriate to add. 216.168.91.112 (talk) 23:00, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]