Jump to content

Talk:Tommy Robinson (activist)

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Convicted criminal" in the first sentence

[edit]

I'm sure I'm probably about to be reverted, but searching, I don't see a long discussion on this, so I'm gonna start one because I don't think this is relevant enough to deserve the prominence it has. There are all kinds of people who have, at one point or another, been convicted of a crime, justly or unjustly. There's a whole paragraph about the actual things he was convicted of further down in the lede, and I would also like to discuss moving these further down. While they're undoubtedly essential to his character, I don't think they're >50% of the reason he's notable (which current word counts in the lede would seem to imply). We don't afford people notability based on the crimes they commit per WP:PERP, so these things are only notable because he is, already, for other reasons, a notable figure.

I'm not out to make a martyr of the guy, obviously he's a rather unpleasant fellow for a number of reasons, but I can't help but think his criminal convictions are a backdrop for his notability, rather than a leading cause of them. This edit to the first sentence is in my opinion a first step in the right direction. BrigadierG (talk) 13:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be inclined to agree the first sentence is WP:UNDUE, especially when it's mentioned again later in the lead. I agree that it's not >50% of the reason he's notable; I suspect it is there for PoV reasons. — Czello (music) 13:43, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
upon first reading the lead to the article, it does strike me as odd "Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon (born 27 November 1982), better known as Tommy Robinson, is a British anti-Islam campaigner and activist."
i believe he is far better known for his work on exposing child rape grooming gangs than he is for being an "anti-islam activist", not to say that he isnt one. in my opinion, it should read:
""Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon (born 27 November 1982), better known as Tommy Robinson, is a British anti-Islam and anti-child grooming campaigner and activist."
i have to agree with User:Czello and User:BrigadierG, the lead being largely just about him being a criminal seems ideologically motivated, and clearly WP:Undue. NotQualified (talk) 02:41, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He has been convicted of more than one, throughout his life, and goes back to before he was notable as an activist. So it is very much part of his imager in the media. Slatersteven (talk) 13:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He has been involved in numerous scrapes that have led to criminal convictions, and some of them are notable because they relate to his career as an activist. However, I agree that the wording in the opening sentence is rather clunky. Since this is already dealt with in the lead with more context, I've removed it.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 13:51, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
'Scrapes'? Interesting choice of words... AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
no ones denying that, but it is a bit absurd to dedicate so much of the lead to it, especially as it is duplication. NotQualified (talk) 02:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone ahead and made an attempt at tightening up the lede to focus primarily on crimes that lend to his notability - such as his recent jailing for contempt of court. Happy to discuss/compromise on how to approach this. BrigadierG (talk) 14:53, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's more than a little concerning that the lede said he was convicted of stalking when the actual outcome was a civil order. BrigadierG (talk) 14:54, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But not that he is in fact an international criminal? Slatersteven (talk) 15:02, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems like a relatively unimportant backdrop to him already having existing convictions and being the leader of a far-right extremist group - ultimately, that's the reason why he used false documents in the first place. BrigadierG (talk) 15:10, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, it makes him an international criminal, he has broke the law in more than one country. Slatersteven (talk) 15:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we already have enough information in the article to conclude that he committed a crime internationally. What's up with the insistence on that label in particular? Could it possibly be that the term "international criminal" calls into mind big threatening drug cartels and the like? The archetypal "criminal" is a loaded stereotype.BrigadierG (talk) 15:21, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It puts his call for asylum there into perspective? Nor do we say "international criminal" in the article. Slatersteven (talk) 15:27, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Don't get me wrong, I think it is relevant and should be mentioned in the article body, but the question I'd put to you is this - is the reason he was travelling on a false passport a factor of:
1. His previous imprisonment for assaulting an off-duty police officer or
2. His leadership of the EDL
3. Something else
My current perception is that it's a product of 1 - something otherwise mostly unrelated to the reason for his notability. I would be convinced that it has a place in the lede if it can be shown the reason he needed to travel on false documents is because of his political affiliation (or because of some outcome or legal status connected to his political affiliation). BrigadierG (talk) 15:43, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, the fact he was asking for asylum in a country he is not even allowed to legally enter needs to be in the lede. Slatersteven (talk) 15:45, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given that its crimes in multiple countries are considered terrorism, a better start to the article would be.
<Convicted international terrorist Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon (born 27 November 1982), better known as Tommy Robinson, is a British anti-Islam campaigner and one of the UK’s most dangerous far-right terrorists.>
We cannot deny that it has committed some serious offences. And even if a reliable source for its terrorist atrocities doesn't currently exist, then one can be made to cite the article after it is edited to make such a declaration. Then we'd have a reliable source to cite, improving the validity of the assertion. It's not like anyone can prove it isn't a terrorist, so that's good enough to strengthen the article. 92.19.46.45 (talk) 12:16, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
no one listen to this user, they have violated many wikipedia rules in other talk issues. this is frankly crazy. in this, they also argue they do not need to cite sources. this is blatant libel and im reporting this immediately NotQualified (talk) 02:44, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
in lieu of this, i have requested mr robinsons article to have a further upgraded protection and it further re-affirms User:Czello's suspicion that the lead was written in violation of PoV and UNDUE and needs to be urgently re-written. i hope we have consensus on this. i am hoping that a higher up moderator will see my report and write it themself so we can close this issue ticket. NotQualified (talk) 02:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Scrape, "a difficult or slightly dangerous situation that you cause by your own silly behaviour".[1] It was pretty silly of Robinson to attempt to enter the USA with someone else's passport, but I'm not denying that he has committed some serious offences.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 15:05, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Birth name

[edit]
ARTICLE UPDATED
Closing discussion to avoid further duplicate discussions occurring here that belong in Early Life (Birthplace & Ethnicity). CNC (talk) 11:59, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Born Stephen Yaxley-Lennon [2][3][4] from RS. He says he was born Stephen Yaxley [5]. I assume the BBC interview ref in the body is him saying he was born Stephen Christopher Yaxley? Not gonna watch it as no time reference.[6] Meanwhile WP:METRO is generally unreliable. So should we go by what Stephen says he was born as, or what RS say? The wordiness of the first sentence could be avoided here, if he was simply born as Yaxley-Lennon, per RS. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 16:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Given the fact he has gone under many names what RS say. Slatersteven (talk) 16:10, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Done CNC (talk) 14:45, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, it has been established that Tommy Robinson also known as Stephen Yaxley Lennon i'm various other aliases was in fact born in the Republic of Ireland.
Not Luton! This is important because he has boasted of being an English patriot. We clearly saw from his Canadian immigration documents and his birth certificate that he was born in the Republic of Ireland. I have tried to edit the article but it seems I can't. Can someone please edit the article to reflect that he was actually born in the Republic of Ireland and although he has campaign for Brexit, being an Irish citizen the impact for him was not felt as it was for the rest of the population. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:39, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, it has been established that Tommy Robinson also known as Stephen Yaxley Lennon & various other aliases was in fact born in the Republic of Ireland.
Not Luton! This is important because he has boasted of being an English patriot. We clearly saw from his Canadian immigration documents and his birth certificate that he was born in the Republic of Ireland. I have tried to edit the article but it seems I can't. Can someone please edit the article to reflect that he was actually born in the Republic of Ireland and although he has campaign for Brexit, being an Irish citizen the impact for him was not felt as it was for the rest of the population. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please see the discussions in the section entitled 'Birthplace and ethnicity' below. AndyTheGrump (talk) 11:51, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Conspiracy Theories

[edit]

Is there any need to give far right conspiracy theories legitimacy while describing the behaviour of vermin? It's like one of its subhuman supporters got to this page and edited those in just to protect a fellow member of its kind. 92.19.46.45 (talk) 19:54, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See wp:blp and wp:soap. Slatersteven (talk) 12:08, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The latter of those includes WP:NOTADVOCACY and WP:NOTSCANDAL.
The subject of the article is meant to be presented from a neutral point of view, not portrayed as a paragon of justice and defender of children. 92.19.46.45 (talk) 16:03, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
> The subject of the article is meant to be presented from a neutral point of view
practice what you preach...
"...while describing the behaviour of vermin?" NotQualified (talk) 02:33, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There you go again, attempting to portray him as the victim. 89.240.226.91 (talk) 21:18, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So you're claiming that the Telford child sexual exploitation scandal, the Rochdale child sex abuse ring and the Huddersfield grooming gang are presented in this article as having been just invented? Exactly which text do you object to? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:15, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Present any video evidence you have in your possession or sources that have indisputable proof, things that nobody could possibly argue were doctored, or stop spreading conspiracy theories as fact. 92.19.46.45 (talk) 21:39, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
that is not the bar of evidence for wikipedia. the sources above all found dozens of men to be found guilty of child rape on a massive scale in uk courthouses. you do not get to make arbitrary goal postsWP: POV railroad because you dont like the fact that tommy was demonstrably important to bringing these cases of children being murdered and gang raped to international attention. yes, tommy is not a savory person, that doesnt mean you get to remove anything positive about him on those grounds. if you believe otherwise, please never edit a wikipedia article again. NotQualified (talk) 02:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i am concerned this is a request for pedophilic video material of children being gangraped. i hope i am somehow misinterpreting this. i am not sure how it could be argued a UK court room is not sufficient proof but videos being personally provided to the user in question of the crimes is sufficient. this is extremely worrying. NotQualified (talk) 03:16, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
it is possible the user in question genuinely misspoke or didnt think their thought through, and is genuinely in good faith, but this needs to be investigated. NotQualified (talk) 03:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
UK court rooms are not evidence, they are a places where evidence is presented as part of a case against persons on trial.
Let's just assume that you do have this "proof" on your person/computer and "just don't feel like showing it." Don't worry, I believe you. 89.240.226.91 (talk) 18:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
reported again for obvious ban evading NotQualified (talk) 20:35, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let me show you something regarding IP Addresses.
It's incredible, really. You can stop doing stuff for three weeks and then you could have a different IP Address. 89.240.226.91 (talk) 20:57, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
this talk discussion is in total violation of wikipedia rules and this user should not be permitted to edit wp:blp. NotQualified (talk) 02:25, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Robinson arrested in Canada

[edit]

See [7][8] Seems to concern an alleged immigration offence. Don't see any urgency in adding it to the article until we get more details. It may turn out to be a nothingburger, but we should probably be aware, and make sure that if anything is added it is properly sourced. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:21, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yes, lets wait to see where this goes, and whose passport he used. Slatersteven (talk) 13:23, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. ("nothingburger" - love it.) Emeraude (talk) 09:09, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I find it quite ironic that he's for strong border protection in his own country of Britain but has absolutely no problem with violating the immigration laws of other country. TarnishedPathtalk 09:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not a reliable source, but amusing anyway: "Scientists reclassify the shortest measurable unit of time as that which occurs between a Tommy Robinson arrest and the launch of his fundraising page".Emeraude (talk) 09:54, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have a similar character in Australia named Avi Yemini who has modelled himself after Robinson somewhat. Every time he's denied something by some government or has some brush up with the law you know there's a grift coming (I think I'm safe using the term as RS do, see https://www.smh.com.au/national/he-s-exploiting-people-who-are-genuinely-scared-avi-yemini-and-the-art-of-outrage-20220922-p5bk9o.html for details). TarnishedPathtalk 07:05, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems significant for inclusion. Unfortunately the alleged infraction committed by Robinson has not been disclosed. TFD (talk) 11:49, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
an article in yahoo says "Tommy Robinson has been arrested in Canada on suspicion of an immigration offence after giving a speech in Calgary" 107.171.251.81 (talk) 14:25, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we've seen that. It doesn't tell us anything we don't already know. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:40, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's very clear to me that he lied to immigration or border security about his criminal record on entering Canada which is probably a chargable offence. 107.171.251.81 (talk) 14:44, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did he, or did he arrive without a visa, or in violation of ban or...well there are many things it could be. Slatersteven (talk) 14:52, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We base articles on published reliable sources, and not on what contributors think. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's too soon to say if this has any long term value. If he is simply sent back to the UK without any charges being filed, it is not of great long term notability.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:56, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is significant enough for inclusion, given that he has form for immigration fraud. TarnishedPathtalk 07:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:BLPCRIME applies here. If the Canadian authorities bring charges then it can be added, but if they don't it will fail WP:10YT.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 07:14, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Debatable. The fact of his arrest is reliably sourced, whether of not he is charged, and then whether he's acquitted or convicted. Certainly he and his supporters are kicking up a fuss about it. I still think it would be better to wait and see. Emeraude (talk) 11:19, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Covering the arrest is not accusing him of a crime. Covering the arrest is merely covering RS and per WP:BLPPUBLIC we can do so. TarnishedPathtalk 11:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it’s significant as wicki likes to paint him in a bad light, far right? The evidence sited is two anti Tommy sites that don’t bother having the author in their article. Having recently started to listen to his interviews cant find far right beliefs just anti Islam. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:56B:BC51:6B00:45FE:A012:6713:FE25 (talk) 18:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They're not "anti Tommy sites", they're just regular news sites. — Czello (music) 18:36, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article is just reflecting what rs publish about Tommy Robinson, which is overwhelmingly negative. We can infer his identification with the far right by his description of the political center as the "far left." While his focus is Islam, he allies only with people on the Right. TFD (talk) 21:53, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Early Life (Birthplace & Ethnicity)

[edit]

According to [9] picture of Canada Immigration documents, Tommy Robinson was and is not legally British but Irish and that he was born in Ireland not in England as he has previously stated.

The article needs to be rectified to call him Irish instead of British and that his birthplace is Ireland, not England Marinne2004 (talk) 21:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SOCIALMEDIA is generally not a reliable source. Requires a secondary source for claim. CNC (talk) 22:19, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even if social media was generally reliable this would still be covered by WP:BLPPRIMARY and as you state we need secondary sources. TarnishedPathtalk 00:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Given that Robinson/Lennon has a prior conviction for travelling under a false passport, it might also be reasonable to be a little sceptical as to whether the place of birth stated was in fact accurate. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:43, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. TarnishedPathtalk 01:27, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's interesting and now we are getting somewhere. If he did state on his travel documents that he was born in Ireland this would have set off suspicions, because he was born in England. The date of birth is correct though.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 07:40, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To avoid confusion, there is no reason why a UK citizen born in the UK cannot also have Irish citizenship (and a passport) if they have a parent or grandparent born in Ireland. Robinson clearly qualifies. (In addition, citizens of Northern Ireland - part of the UK - can also have an Irish passport if they wish.)Emeraude (talk) 09:20, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The (non-WP:RS) source says that Robinson/Lennon was born in Ireland, which is contrary to what other sources have stated. Clearly it is possible that these sources are wrong. We just don't know, which is why we need to wait for proper sourcing. And avoid speculation here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 09:36, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's easy for Robinson to have Irish citizenship through his mother. The actual place of birth is more of an issue, but we'll have to wait and see what comes of this.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:42, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As official documents published by Robinson himself (here) state his place of birth is Ireland, I think any reference to a place of birth in the article should be removed. It can be reinstated when a definitive answer can be agreed upon. Boardwalk.Koi (talk) 19:08, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree, see the comment about Peter O'Toole below.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:17, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In 2013 he said he was born in London,[10] despite being born in Luton.[11] I'm not convinced adding further claims from an SM source of where he was born adds any value to article. CNC (talk) 19:39, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly disagree. BritishGrammar (talk) 12:02, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore, documents posted to social media are not "official documents". CNC (talk) 19:40, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, well, can you show us evidence that he was born in Luton? Because as of yet we don't have any. It's clear that Wikipedia should be a place of fact. Where is the evidence he was born in Luton? The whole point of editing a page is when evidence comes to light.
To say that this evidence is somehow fake? When this would be Mr Robinson's detriment is laughable. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:59, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I provided a list of reliable sources further down. CNC (talk) 12:10, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here Here!! There is great debate now about Wikipedia and it's inaccuracies? Social media is a wash with people saying " Wikipedia is not an Encyclopedia and its content is added by people all over the world some of the times this is inaccurate" vibes. BritishGrammar (talk) 12:00, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me, the official documentation clearly states he was born in Ireland. I am half Irish and I am half English. I'm not bothered about anyone's ethnicity but I am bothered about the truth. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:58, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We're not bothered about WP:TRUTH here, only WP:V from WP:RS. CNC (talk) 12:01, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am as your citizen. What you say is correct, but it's irrelevant to this discussion. He was born in Ireland. That is the truth of the matter. As others have said if new evidence comes to light the fact he was born in England, then we can correct the page Page. But as of yet the evidence to the contrary. BritishGrammar (talk) 12:02, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is when there is a photograph of an official document clearly stating he was born in Ireland. Do we actually have proof he was born in Luton? Or was that just added because of common folklore? I suggest that now we actually have some evidence Wikipedia should edit this page to reflect the evidence we have. Should any evidence come to light contradicting this, which I doubt they will. Then we can edit the page again, but at the moment the evidence is clear. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:56, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not folklore, he was born in Luton per reliable sources: [12][13][14][15][16] CNC (talk) 12:04, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Folklore? Wikipedia isn't about folklore it's about fact. Show me evidence he was born in Luton? Or are you just relying on folklore? BritishGrammar (talk) 12:06, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Facepalm Facepalm. Did you not see the list of sources I just provided? CNC (talk) 12:11, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In the UK your birth certificate tells you where you were born, that is the only "evidance" that counts. Slatersteven (talk) 15:41, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, I also respectfully request that the truth should be on Wikipedia it should a place of facts. The facts are he was born in Ireland. I find it reprehensible that we are locked out of this page and cannot edit. I have edited successfully many Wikipedia pages, maybe I've logged into the wrong account on Wikipedia because I'm sure I should have some privileges.
Regardless if someone does have privileges, can they please edit this page ASAP. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:54, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia bases article content on published reliable sources. And with regard to biographies of living persons, we have specific requirements regarding sourcing. As of now, we have no sources at all for the claim that he was born in Ireland, beyond a couple of images posted on social media, the authenticity of which could not be determined even if they were acceptable under policy (they aren't, since we don't cite court documents etc). As of now, all we know is that sources have previously stated that Robinson was born in Luton, England, that he has used multiple aliases, and that he has previously been convicted for travelling under a false passport. WE don't know if the forms are genuine. We don't know if the information on them is correct. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:07, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sources? Unreliable sources high disagree strongly. I'm going to have to try to find someone higher up the Wikipedia food chain unless you can show me evidence contrary to the ones we have seen for ourselves, then I'm not going to agree. This man is dishonest he said several aliases, he has a criminal record, so the sources that state he was born in Luton need to be scrutinised. Show me the evidence? Because we have evidence to the contrary. Why would someone post a fake document which is actually his extreme detriment? His whole ideology is about being an English patriot? BritishGrammar (talk) 12:09, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can assure you that you will find nobody 'higher up the Wikipedia food chain' that will support the violations of core Wikipedia policy that you seem to be proposing. We require proper sourcing for content for very good reasons, and we don't abandon them for political convenience. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We shall see. Because I keep asking you to show me evidence of the sources that he was born in Luton? And you fell to do so. So I will respectfully exit this conversation and I will attempt to contact someone who can show me evidence he was born in Lew and not just reply with blanket responses devoid of any substance. BritishGrammar (talk) 12:15, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I provided the sources above in this comment (the numbers are linked). CNC (talk) 12:22, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're giving some misplaced importance to a social media post over more credible sources.
It's not his birth certificate, it's just some document from immgiration - how do you know, for example, that a mistake hasn't been made there.
If he's traveled on an Irish passport then maybe an immigration officer accidentally wrote Ireland as his place of birth, easy mistake to make. It doesn't make it fact just because it's written on one "official" document. 2A01:4B00:C018:AE00:A47F:3975:73A:1E0 (talk) 18:01, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Its always possible this is what he was arrested for, lying on his immigration forms. Slatersteven (talk) 10:49, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Discussion ongoing: at the Teahouse.
CNC (talk) 16:08, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He was at a rally in London today [17] so he has obviously returned from his trip to Canada. But we still don't know what he did to upset the immigration officials in Canada, or whether any charges were brought. Maybe the matter was dropped, and we will never know exactly what led to this incident.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:10, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2024

[edit]
DUPLICATE REQUEST
The discussion is already taking place in topic Early Life (Birthplace & Ethnicity). Edit request has otherwise been answered. CNC (talk) 19:47, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Request to change place of birth information to :

Claimed : Luton, UK Court Documents: Ireland

He posted his own documents in his Canadian immigration case

https://x.com/TRobinsonNewEra/status/1806144770995372436?t=DXDXs1u6lk0MCJM-RCUq_g&s=19 23.17.38.62 (talk) 15:36, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See talk page thread above. Slatersteven (talk) 15:39, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is also similar to Peter O'Toole, who often said that he was born in Ireland, although his birth certificate said that he was born in Leeds. There are WP:AUTO problems if a person's recollection of events is not matched by official documents that would be recognised in court.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:11, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Tommy Robinson is not "far right"

[edit]

Tommy Robinson is not "far right". Wikipedia needs to try harder at grappling with current political realities and stop using mainstream ideological distortions as "reliable sources". I suspect some member of the old guard will try and censor or sanction this comment. — Epipelagic (talk) 09:45, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

wp:agf, and wp:npa. Slatersteven (talk) 11:37, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you — Epipelagic (talk) 12:05, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
no, you will not be censored for a genuine talk comment but please do assume good faith of editors. regardless, tommy is "far-right". however, please do express why you dont consider that, you cite "current political realities", please elaborate.
> stop using mainstream ideological distortions as "reliable sources".
here is a list of source Wikipedia uses, Wikipedia:Reliable sources. if you can find a source in there that disputes him being far right, please provide it. if you know of a source but it isnt listed, you are free to try to make the argument to moderators for it to be judged and verified.
> I suspect some member of the old guard will try and censor or sanction this comment.
as long as you follow wikipedia guidelines that wont happen NotQualified (talk) 02:23, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

is the claim that tommy was the first british journalist jailed for contempt of court since the 1940s verifiable?

[edit]

im watching a rebel news video and wish to add this to the article but i am finding it hard to find a better source for it


if you wish to see, go to youtube and find at 1 minutes and 10 seconds in: Tommy Robinson is winning the world’s leading FREE SPEECH PRIZE — and Rebel News is going!

Rebel News NotQualified (talk) 17:47, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt this is a wp:rs. So do not add it without a much much better source. Slatersteven (talk) 17:48, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
of course thats why im asking NotQualified (talk) 17:51, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

award in lede

[edit]

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/User_talk:Slatersteven#why_did_you_revert_the_robinson_edits?

so i had a discussion with this user about tommy receiving a free speech award and they said:

"No, as it needs to be a major part of the article, and this is just one award, so at most needs a line or two (or what you in fact added to the lede (more or less). And this is not the place for this discussion, take it to the articles talk page."


i am confused at why they got rid of what i wrote as they clarified "(or what you in fact added to the lede (more or less)" is a reasonable size for a lede. im adding stuff back but if this needs discussion talk here. NotQualified (talk) 17:58, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

to clarify, they got rid of it cause it was too big but then said it was a fair size. thats why it's back now :D! NotQualified (talk) 18:03, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A, read wp:lede it is a summary of our article and not a newspaper-style leader. B, what I meant was that what you had written should not have been in the lede, but may have been suitable for the body, but no more than that (Or, it does not deserve more than a line or two in the body, which is not enough to justify adding it to the lede, even if added to the body"). So no I did not say that. Slatersteven (talk) 18:05, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
miscommunication then, will look into it NotQualified (talk) 18:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
" no you make a case at talk" just to be clear i made a case with you and we just miscommunicated. NotQualified (talk) 18:16, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And you then need to get wp:consensus. Slatersteven (talk) 18:18, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
doing that now yeah...
heres what i wrote in the lede:
In 2019, Robinson was awarded The Sappho Award by the Danish Free Press Society for his decades of work on exposing child grooming gangs throughout Britain in Landstingssalen at Christiansborg Palace, the seat of the Danish Parliament, in Copenhagen, Denmark. [1] He received the award in 2020 however due to incarceration after recording outside a court room illegally, and was described as "a British freedom of speech activist and street journalist". [2]
it's a pretty prestigious award so i think it warrants a mention, at least the first line in the lede "In 2019, Robinson was awarded The Sappho Award by the Danish Free Press Society for his decades of work on exposing child grooming gangs throughout Britain in Landstingssalen at Christiansborg Palace." theres another discussion going on about WP:balance (or whatever it's called, being impartial and stuff) and i think this is a fair enough impartial balance, but even then it's still noteworthy enough to be mentioned as tommy is known for his work on grooming gangs throughout the article and this is recognition of it by a respected body. NotQualified (talk) 18:23, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.trykkefrihed.dk/blog/2516/the-sappho-award-2019-tommy-robinsons-speech.htm
  2. ^ https://www.trykkefrihed.dk/sappho-award.htm
I don't see how an award that is not independently notable and doesn't have its own article is notable enough to belong in the lede of as high-profile an activist as Robinson. ser! (chat to me - see my edits) 19:20, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
define "not independently notable" NotQualified (talk) 20:39, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not independently notable, i.e. very little coverage exists about this particular award, and nowhere near enough to deem it important enough for the lede. ser! (chat to me - see my edits) 11:12, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It does not matter how notable it is, it is not a major part of this article. Slatersteven (talk) 11:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
what it was awarded for is however notable to the article, combatting grooming gangs. i think at least a one line mention is warranted and then have the paragraph in the body. NotQualified (talk) 11:31, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have already said this deserves a line or two in the body at most. There really is no pointt in replying anymore as you have made no new arguments, and seem to not be reading what is biueng said to you. Slatersteven (talk) 11:33, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
fair enough, i'll let other users add input. NotQualified (talk) 12:39, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The paragraph on the award currently in the article is far from neutrally written. It asserts as objective fact the characterisations of Robinson by the 'Danish Free Press Society', a right-wing 'counterjihad' pressure group. The claim that Robinson has spent "decades of work on exposing child grooming gangs throughout Britain" is unsupported by any independent source, and is deeply controversial, given his convictions for contempt of court etc.
If the award merits inclusion at all, it should be based around what independent sources have to say about it, and not on the partisan boosting of an award from an organisation which seems to be based around Robinson sharing their controversial views. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:26, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, the sourcing is more or less WP:PRIMARY, and it would be better coming from an independent news source.--♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:55, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
> "decades of work on exposing child grooming gangs throughout Britain" is unsupported by any independent source, and is deeply controversial, given his convictions for contempt of court etc.
if needs be i can get rid of it from the article.
> If the award merits inclusion at all, it should be based around what independent sources have to say about it, and not on the partisan boosting of an award from an organisation which seems to be based around Robinson sharing their controversial views.
this is fair NotQualified (talk) 00:29, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

False quotation

[edit]

Article says ‘Appearing the next morning on Good Morning Britain, Robinson held up the Quran and described it as a "violent and cursed book".’

- Incorrect. This was not his own description but rather a quote. He actually says ‘if I hold up this book up and say “there will never be peace on this earth so long as we have this book. It is a violent and cursed book”. Can I tell you who said that? Sir William Gladstone.’

The quote is questionable but, in any case, it is certainly a quote or misquote and not an opinion. Poor writing to attribute quotes as personal opinions. A lot of bias on this page. 2A02:C7C:BD1D:E500:79E7:EE5B:4A26:C35F (talk) 17:48, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So you're acknowledging he said "it is a violent and cursed book", but it's omitted who said it first? Right. CNC (talk) 17:55, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have a source that is what Robinson mentioned Gladstone? TFD (talk) 18:12, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2024

[edit]

"An online petition for his release had more than 500,000 signatures.[162] The anti-fascist advocacy group Hope not Hate said its analysis showed that 68.1% of the signatures were from the UK, with 9.7% from Australia, and the remaining 9.3% from the US, Canada, Germany, France, New Zealand, Netherlands, Sweden and Ireland combined.[163]"

This portion is unclear. It should say:

...its analysis showed that 68.1% of the signatures were from the UK, 9.7% from Australia, 9.3% from the US, and the rest from Canada, Germany, France, New Zealand, Netherlands, Sweden and Ireland combined.

This aligns with what the source actually says. H6xy (talk) 15:12, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Neiltonks (talk) 15:22, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tommy_Robinson_(activist)&oldid=1237007766"