Talk:Toll road/Archive 1

Archive 1

Acheron vs. Styx (mythology)

Acheron vs. Styx (mythology) .... I see references to both vis a vis where Charon plied his trade. Can someone provide evidence one way or the other (Wikipedia itself seems in conflict). dml 03:08, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

Private highway

I am considering writing an article about private highways (e.g. the Dulles Greenway). The Cato Institute has a lot of info about this subject. Anyone interested in collaborating? There is a fascinating article at [1] called Highway Aggravation: The Case For Privatizing The Highways, by Peter Samuel. The argument can be summed up here:

In Russia communism's failure was epitomized by constant shortages in stores. Empty shelves in supermarkets and department stores and customers in line, wasting hours each week, became the face of the system's failure, as well as a source of huge personal frustration, even rage. Communism failed because prices were not flexible to match supply and demand; because stores were bureaucracies, not businesses; and because revenues went into a central treasury and did not fuel increased capacity and improved service. We in supposedly capitalistic America suffer communism--an unpriced service provided by an unresponsive monopolistic bureaucracy--on most of our highways. Our manifestation of shortage, our equivalent of Russian lines at stores, is daily highway backups. There is no price on rush-hour travel to clear the market. There is no revenue stream directly from road users to road managers to provide incentives either to manage existing capacity to maximum consumer advantage or to adjust capacity to demand.

Rad Racer | Talk 04:58, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"World-famous" Smithfield Hams

First.. does the fact that the certain hams are "world-famous" really have any sort of impact on this article and toll roads?

Also... since 1) the toll bridge was built in 1928, 2) the shunpiking started in 1955, and 3) the tolls ended in 1975 (when a bridge replacement was started)... doesn't his seem like a stretch of cause and effect? I'd like to see evidence that it just wasn't a simple case of bonds being retired, or something similar. A gap of twenty years between shunpiking and the end of a toll seems like a big stretch.

I'd recommend that this whole entire section be removed from the article.

- Mark Mathu 8/15/05

The reference to Smithfield Hams was merely for identification purposes, since we are urged to consider those outside the US when writing article content. Anyway, the long-hated toll bridge which had been privately-owned since it had been built was purchased by the State of Virginia with public money. However, instead of removal or reduction of tolls, as users anticipated, the tolls were increased, with no improvement of the bridge itself. This is the "Cause and effect". Retirement of bonds was not involved. The federal requirement to remove tolls from the nearby Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel as it was improved with federal funds a second and a perception of equity fueled the politics to remove the tolls in 1975. And, the shunpiking had no apparent impact upon tolls. The shunpiking by Joe Luter is just an interesting local history item.

- Mark Fisher in Virginia 8/15/05 Vaoverland 12:02, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

U-Turns on Oklahoma Turnpikes

I'm not 100% sure, but pretty close, that on the Oklahoma toll roads (at least the Turner and Will Rogers Turnpikes) it is not possible to enter a rest area and U-turn to go back the other way and avoid a toll. I've driven both of these and if I remember right, access is blocked to get onto the other lanes. Even on the free interstates in Missouri, this is not possible. The only way I know is if there is a place for emergency vehicles to do this, but anyone else would be breaking the law. I won't change the article, but if anyone else knows this to be true, please change it. The toll charge sounds inflated. It was $3.00 for each segment. Rt66lt 02:14, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

U-Turns on Oklahoma Turnpikes

The article is misleading. You can drive, for example, east along I-44 (the Turner Turnpike) from Oklahoma City to a couple of median rest stops / oasis areas, and turn around without paying a toll. Only, you'll wind up back at the I-35 / John Kilpatrick interchange in OKC, or rather going to back to your point of beginning and getting nowhere except burning gasoline. You cannot exit the turnpike at the sidegates with out incurring a toll fee, unless you violate the law and run them, and the sidegates are either manned or have video enforcement. Approximately halfway to Tulsa is a center gate where every vehicle encounters a toll, either by electronic collection (PIKEPASS) or cash payment. So yes, you can in some places drive the turnpike for free, but you'll only be making a long U-turn. As for the current toll fees, just go to http://www.pikepass.com. Anon. Feb. 6, 2006.

U-Turns on Turnpikes

I'm pretty sure U-Turns are illegal on most freeways in the US, whether or not they are toll. On some freeways, like the Garden State Parkway (toll), service areas in the median make U-Turns possible to be done without going through any Emergency Vehicles Only sign. In fact, signs for Northbound and Southbound are often adjecent. I think most roads have emergency U-Turn breaks in the median all along, but like you said, this is usually illegal. What I don't understand is how making a U-Turn can reduce the toll. On the New Jersey Turnpike you end up paying the maximum possible if you U-Turn. --Chris 23:44, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

It's to prevent people going opposite directions from meeting up at service areas and swapping tickets. --SPUI (T - C - RFC) 11:22, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Italian toll roads

In Italy all the autostrade (the Italian for Autobahn, or Highways) are toll roads. They are all networked in the fact that if you enter in Naples and exit in Venice you will pay only at the exit, even tought you have changed several streets. They are named AXX, where XX is a number from 1 to 30. i.e. A1 connects Milan to Naples; and they might have nicknames ("Autostrada del Sole" = "Sun Highway" for the A1). The numbers don't follow a methodology. 61% of the Autostrade are handled by the "Autostrade per l'Italia S.p.A" society, and its subsidizeds. The network of highways covers most of Italy: North and Center Italy are well covered, South and Sicily are scarsely covered, Sardinia is not covered.

Other toll roads in Italy are the urban areas of Venice and Florence where tourist buses must pay a fee to enter the city. Autostrade are pretty expensive too. For example the tipical Milan-Naples route of around 700 Km costs approximately 40 €.

Can you add this info to the article? Thanks. Andrea G.

Done! You do realize that anyone can edit any (well mostly any) article, right? --Chris 23:38, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes I know, I'm a contributor of the Italian Wikipedia, but my English is not very good, I mean, it's not encyclopedic ;) So I just wanted someone to clean up eventual grammar and sintactic errors. Thanks, Andrea G.

Could have fooled me, but I neglected to wikify it, so User:84.220.102.96 did. --Chris 22:18, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh wait, that's you. lol --Chris 22:22, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I've added some information on the payment methods and a link to my TELEPASS article and slightly expanded upon the numbering schematics - there are actually two blocks, one from 1 to 33 (33 is under construction), and 50 to 91 for the beltways. Also, I've inserted a brief explanation that privately owned Italian motorway carriers must maintain their networks at cost and using the tolls they collect. Markus Stamm 22:33, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Moved from Turnpike

Anon comments. — Omegatron 21:30, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

This needs to have content about the political stance and about the road structures

-What about the history of the turnpikes?

Alphabetical order

I changed the order of the Tollroads in... part to be alphabetical. I made an exception with regard to the US/UK as this the English Wikipedia.

It would be good to organize this under a separate subheading, I think, but I have not the nerve to write a general text for this now, sadly. Only trouble that i see with the alphabetical order is the reference to singapore in Norway. --Madcynic 13:27, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Toll roads in Croatia

I have added an entry on Croatian toll-roads based on the information contained on http://www.hac.hr/modules.php?r=o_nama and the documents listed there. EurowikiJ 16:33, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Early toll roads

The section reads:

==Early toll roads==

Early references include the (mythical) Greek ferryman Charon charging a toll to ferry (dead) people across the river Acheron. Aristotle and Pliny refer to tolls in Arabia and other parts of Asia. In India, before the 4th century BC the Arthasastra notes the use of tolls. Germanic tribes charged tolls to travellers across mountain passes. Tolls were used in the Holy Roman Empire in the 14th century and 15th century.

A good example in the 14th century would be Castle Loevestein in the Netherlands, which was built at a strategic point where 2 rivers met, and charged tolls to boats sailing the river.

IMO this reflects a very simplistic analysis. I'm not qualified to do a sophisticated one, but i bet that the above falls short of this slightly less simplistic one:

1. "Toll" comes from Latin and Greek terms related to custom-houses and taxation and presumably thus applies to situations involving sovereignty, such as the Robber barons. "Fare" comes from the same roots as "ferry", and in contrast to "toll", its modern uses have to do with getting a place on a vehicle (land, sea, or air). Fares and tolls, to the extent they are distinguished, are
   • (fare) a fairly simple phenomenon of a tradesman, who carries you across a distance in a wagon, or across a bay, strait, or river in a boat, and eithers receives his fee, which provides for his subsistence and the cost of maintaining the vehicle, or chalks it up to the cost of doing business when the passenger is tough enough to insist on traveling free;
   • (toll) is a more complex and less stable situation where someone with enough military force to seize everything that comes by shows some appreciation for the fact that doing so is killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, and extracts a tolerable toll from the commerce that he would end if he lacked restraint.
2. It's not clear from Google searches whether Charon collected tolls or fares (or, honestly, whether the Greeks made the distinction):

   For

   Charon toll OR fare

   the "fare" hits run something like 70% of the first few pages, but

   Charon toll

   gets about 59K while

   Charon fare

   gets about 53K.

3. Charon is certainly early evidence of fares, but not necessarily of tolls, and Hercules's being carried without fee, simply because he glared powerfully, suggests the tradesman giving up his fare, not the warrior extracting a toll.
4. In any case, he is only evidence of the Greeks' knowledge of practices that might be forerunners of toll roads, and not himself a forerunner.
5. Real forerunners to cite are

   well-established highwaymen and

   robber barons.

6. Presumably modern toll roads began from the recognition that Autobahn-like highways would be cost-effective for their societies, that the additional expense of features aiding collection of tolls was relatively small, and that they could be both affordable to users and self financing. At least in some cases, they've been built with the plan of the tolls lasting only until they pay off the bonds issued to finance construction.

Someone can say that sort of thing much better than i, and can make a much better section than we have by doing so.
--Jerzy•t 02:46, 14 & 01:24, 20 April 2006 (UTC) [to correct format as to numbering]

United Kingdom

I have removed the following, as I do not believe it to be correct: responsibility rested on three groups, the Crown (the King's Highways), the aristocracy owning the land over which the roads ran and the monasteries.

The great land-owning monasteries were the most active in road and also bridge maintenance. The Dissolution of the Monasteries under Henry VIII greatly reduced the quality of the roads.

Medieval Law seems to be largely silent on the subject. The Laws of Edward the Confessor placed four great roads under the King's peace and the rest under the peace of the Earl, probably meaning that each county should be reponsible for repairs, but the medieval county court in practice probably did little. Peterkingiron 22:52, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Ferrys

Perhaps we should note that some Ferrys charge a fee, that could be likened to a toll Alexander101010 15:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Pictures

I created a gallery of pictures at the bottom of the article. Much cleaner. --Woohookitty^(meow) 06:35, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Odd paragraph in United States > History section

The following paragraph, located in the United States history section (second to last paragraph), does not match the tone of the rest of the article.

Occasionally it is mooted that some of the Interstate highways, for example, those in the sparsely-populated states just east of the Rocky Mountains, should have been turnpikes. The reason is to have those cross-country trucking firms that use them pay for them. But there is no movement to do this, especially since trucking companies already pay a fuel tax in each state they drive through.

This paragraph needs to be rewritten or possibly removed entirely. --Geekers 18:25, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Japan

I read the following in the article.

"Japan has the most expensive toll system in the world, with toll rates averaging approximately US$1.00 per mile (US$0.63 per kilometer)."

"What's this in yen?" I wondered. Indeed, why quote the figure in USD at all? That makes about as much sense as giving the English Channel tunnel toll in South African Rand. Surely the original figure would have been in yen per kilometre not USD per mile. Conversion from kilometres to miles introduces inaccuracy. Conversion from yen to USD introduces inaccuracy. The latter is made even worse by the fact that exchange rates vary ... but, of course, toll rates vary too. So I went digging about for Japanese tollway fees and this is what I found.

"Under the scheme of the toll pooling system, toll rates were determined in the redemption principle, in which total toll revenues during a pre-fixed period must cover the whole cost of construction, maintenance, interest repayment, and others. The toll rates as of 2001 were as follows:

"Terminal charge:150 yen per single use
"Light car and motorcycle:19.68 yen/km
"Ordinary passenger car:24.60 yen/km
"Small and medium-sized truck:29.52 yen/km
"Large-sized truck:40.59 yen/km
"Special large-sized full trailer:67.65 yen/km

"Toll fees for ordinary passengers car are 24.6 yen/km plus 150 yen as a terminal charge in Japan ..."

• Personal automobile usehtml version
• Transport Infrastructure Development in Japan and Koreahtml version
• Infrastructure Database for Asia and the Pacific (Japan)

Jimp 06:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Why does Turnpike redirect here?

I know that in Massachusetts, there are many roads that are called turnpikes that are not Toll Roads. Shouldn't "Turnpike" be a different article?(141.157.173.162 (talk) 03:53, 24 July 2009 (UTC))

There is a separate article in turnpikes in England. If US turnpikes need a separate article, I would suggest that you write it! Peterkingiron (talk) 15:58, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Structure of article

This article has become too long. I would suggest that most of the USA section should be moved to a separate article on 'Turnpikes (USA)', leaving a relatively brief account of the subject here and a cross-reference. Similarly the section on the UK, which is largely historical and partly concerned with other issues of road maintenance would be better as a separate article Turnpike Roads (Britain). I have written a brief article, but the account fo the subject here is more detailed. Accordingly some fo the section here needs to be merged with that. I have not attached a merge templete to the section, because there seems to be a fault in Wiki at present. Peterkingiron 23:28, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

My article referred to appears to ahve got lost! Peterkingiron 21:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought the same thing. I've made a start on reducing the size of the article. So far I've split the US section into a new article, Toll roads in the United States. The article is still too big and overwhelmed by the National toll-road differences section. Maybe this whole section should be split out (leaving a summary). I'll continue to split the article up. Instead of picking through this talk page to split it accordingly I've archived the lot. The Talk page(s) of the new article(s) can link to this archive. Jimp 15:18, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I've split the article up further into two more new articles: Toll roads in Europe and Toll roads around the World. Jimp 01:12, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

That may have been necessary, but you should have summarised each of the other articles in a few sentences, as well as using a "main" template for crossreference. The article in its present form is a very poor one. Peterkingiron (talk) 22:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Proposed Merge to Road pricing

Against - Egads no: they are nothing alike! I suspect this to be vandalism on the part of an anonymous contributor, particularly as he/she left no explanation of his/her intentions. I will remove this tag tomorrow barring any legitimate issues in support of a merge. --Thisisbossi 04:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism? No, not at all, merely a legitimate but anonymous post. (Please Assume Good Faith, eh? - WP:AGF) I am honestly curious to know why you think these topics are different enough to justify separate articles. -- 201.50.248.179 14:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC) (I originally added the merge tag)

Something that possibly affects this discussion: In the U.S., the term "toll road" is used, however AFAIK the term "road pricing" is never used. As far as I can tell, both of these articles are discussing effectively identical subjects. I think we should merge them. If there is some difference, I think we sould clarify what it is for the Americans. Thanks for your consideration. -- 201.50.248.179 14:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with the proposal to merge with Road pricing, and I accept the need to clarify the road pricing article to explain why it is different to toll roads. However, I cannot see the need to distinguish between private roads, private highways and toll roads. --RichardVeryard 16:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I most certainly disagree. There really is no point for the two articles to merge, if you think logically. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.236.104.36 (talk) 21:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

In order to get correct answers by thinking logically, one has to have adequate information to work with. To repeat, why do you, 24.236.104.36, think that these topics are different enough to justify separate articles? Thanks for your help. -- 201.50.248.179 10:39, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I have now amended the Road pricing article to make clear that the topic of road pricing is not restricted to toll roads. In Europe, most of the current debate is about charging for road usage across an entire zone. --RichardVeryard 14:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Against merger - Clearly the subjects are related. That does not justify merger as they are also different, a toll road is a type of road pricing, is generally used for financing rather than management. The articles should have appropriate discussion of similarities and differences. dml 19:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

(response copied from Road Pricing talk page) Sorry, but I am extremely wary of such merge tags given the circumstances of the tags insertion. Thank you for your explanation. You may wish to register with Wikipedia so that such a misinterpretation of your intentions does not happen again -- anonymous posters tend to have some bad connotations.

Toll roads are a form of road pricing, but road pricing is not specifically a tolled roadway -- a similar relationship could be that a square is a rectangle, but not vice-versa. There are numerous types of road pricing schemes that would not naturally fit into a "toll road" classification. One such example would be the aforementioned congestion pricing. --Thisisbossi 03:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Against -- as per previous discussions. A toll road is a type of road, whereas road pricing is more of a concept. This would appear to be another example of an unnecessary merge. Incidentally, the merge banners were place on 9th Feb and it will be possible to remove them at the end of the week, since the concensus would appear to be 'against merge'. -- EdJogg 13:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Against -- Again, they are nothing alike. Road Pricing is the idea of pricing the road at certain times, or for certain features, as per say, possibly in the case of California State Route 91. Rmsuperstar99 01:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Private road

• as strongly opposed as one can be I live on a private road that is, in no way, shape, or form, a toll road. Such private roads are very common in rural areas. i kan reed 20:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
• Against because the two articles and subjects are nothing alike. --Thisisbossi 01:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
• I accept that not all private roads are toll roads. The problem I'm having is that based on the definitions in the articles I can't see the difference between Private road and Private highway, and I also can't see the difference between Private highway and Toll road. There may be an argument for two (improved) articles here, but surely there is no need for three. --RichardVeryard 02:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • A tolled road can be publicly or privately maintained. A private road is privately-maintained, but is rarely tolled today (though in the earlier days of the automobile, such private tolls were commonplace). Private highways are the increasing trend of leasing publicly-maintained highways to private entities through a contractual agreement -- these are often tolled, but not all toll roads are not private. I cannot recall at the moment if the articles indicate these differences or offer some alternative viewpoints, but I'll see if I can clarify each article whenever I get a chance to do so. --Thisisbossi 04:18, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
• Against -- as per Thisisbossi. Another unnecessary merge request. In particular, Toll road and Private highway are both large articles already, and benefit from being kept separate. --EdJogg 13:09, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
• Very Against as the first person said, usually, private roads are not toll roads. In northwestern Maine, there are many long, gravel private roads that are not tolled. (The only tolls in the state are on or around the Maine Turnpike). Rmsuperstar99 01:38, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Closed vs Open Toll roads

I think this terminology may be too limiting. I know of one (possibly uniquely anomalous) toll road that doesn't really fit into either category. The Dulles Toll Road it employs a hybrid system. There is one main toll plaza (like the "open" system) on the eastern end of the road, but each entrance or exit west of this toll plaza (with some exceptions mentioned in the article) has its own toll booth.
But, unlike the "closed" system described here, a ticket isn't issued when getting on the road; nor is the fee for exiting the road based on distance traveled. All fees are fixed. (For example getting on this road from the DC beltway and getting off in Herndon, VA (~9 mi.) would be $1.25; $0.75 at the toll plaza and $0.50 at the Herndon exit. But getting on at the first exit past the toll plaza (<1 mi.) would also be $1.25).
It may be this is is so unusual that it doesn't fit into the terminology; but I would like to see a reference for the common use of "open" vs "closed" and see that the common definition matches that put forth in the article.
Occasional Reader 22:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, the intoductory paragraph calls the two types "barrier (mainline) toll plazas" and "entry/exit tolls". Is there some reason these terms aren't reused in the 'Closed system' section? And shouldn't that section be renamed since it describes both "Closed" and "Open" toll roads?
Occasional Reader 22:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I believe the use of the terms is beginning to shift toward "closed" meaning that a motorists needs to stop for the toll; and "open" meaning that no stop is necessary (i.e. the utilisation of electronic reader technology). --Bossi (talk • gallery • contrib) 23:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

First RDI use

How does the sentence The first major deployment of an RFID electronic toll collection system was on the Dallas North Tollway in 1989 by Amtech . match up to the use of similar technology in Bergen to manage traffic congestion in 1986.[2] Certainly the aims of the schemes are slightly different but the technology seems to be very similar and the wording here seem to make a claim for first use. Velela 19:09, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

criticism

I think there should be a crticism section. Don't people hate toll roads? They're like a permenant traffic jam. 69.181.83.29 22:08, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that automated toll collection largely speeds up the process of getting through toll plazas. Captain Zyrain 08:01, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Globalise

I think this article used to have a reasonable coverage for a number of countries, but some one appears to have forked that material off inot a separate article without summarising it here. The result is that the article now has an excessive focus on USA. Peterkingiron (talk) 22:23, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Turnpike Trusts

A change of emphasis on the above - Turnpike Trusts in England were primarily intended to maintain the roads, not build new ones. They were able to use a portion of the Statute Duty from the Parishes through which the highway already passed. This was augmented with the tolls they collected under the powers given in the Act of Parliament relating to that particular road. They did make some improvements by building short sections of new road but the construction of totally new roads was a rarity. Southern England was intensively farmed by the 18th century and getting new land to build a road would have been as difficult as it subsequently was for the private enterprises that built canals and then the railways on totally new lines of communication with new capital. Telford adapted the roads that had previously been under a number of earlier turnpike trusts when he improved the road from London to Holyhead (for Ireland). (A.rosevear (talk) 17:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC))

The above was added to the text of the article by (I suspect) a very new editor. The statements are valid, but seem to be a commetn on the article (at the end of the section "Early toll roads"), rather than an edit. His criticism is legitimate and I will alter the article after writign this. However, the detail ought to appear in Toll roads in the United Kingdom or better still in Turnpike trust, both of which articles are currently in need of more attention than i can give them immediately. Peterkingiron (talk) 23:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

---

Apologies for my niavity; I got here when entering a few points on tollhouses - Suspect I have not followed guidelines there, so beware of (and remove)anything inappropriate with my name against it. However, the tollhouses on turnpike roads should have a link to a revised page on Turnpikes.(A.rosevear (talk) 10:03, 22 January 2008 (UTC))

The AKAs In US English

In US English, specifically eastern and heartland dialects where the various types of tolling roads are most prevalent, the opening listed AKAs each have different meanings. A turnpike is a closed-access single-toll highway, often commercialized. A driver gets a marker (or a scan notice on open road tolling systems, when they enter, and pay only once when they leave, often at a booth toll house. A tollway is a pay-as-you-go. Drivers will pay along the way as well as when they enter or leave. They are also often commercialized. A toll road is equivalent to a tollway, though without the commercial oasis centres. Just if someone wants to mention or break down the differences in in the US.Lostinlodos (talk) 22:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest that the appropriate place to deal with this may be in Toll roads in the United States . This is so that this worldwide article does not become cluttered with local detail. (From England) Peterkingiron (talk) 19:35, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Gotcha, I didn't know there was a Toll roads in the United States so it makes sense not to disambiguate the terms here then! Lostinlodos (talk) 13:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Etymology

Can someone add a section on the etymology of "turnpike" as, while toll road is intuitive, turnpike isn't so it'd be interesting to know how this word found its place in the lexicon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.67.62.142 (talk) 17:46, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

The word has several meanings, besides the reference to roads, including a barrier to detain water on river navigations. In the context of roads, it is probasbly a pike (or long staff) placed across the road to block it, so that the toll collector extract the toll. This was hinged so that it turned to let traffic through. This statement is made without adequate evidence, and should not be moved to the article, unless a citation can be provided for it. Peterkingiron (talk) 10:00, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

All my books are in store right now, but that is correct. When I finish moving I will dig it out. SimonTrew (talk) 19:47, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

globalise again

We have a separate Toll roads in the United States, also an interational article Toll roads around the world. The right place for discussion specifically of US system is ther former. This article does currently seem rather too US-centric, and may indeed need to be pruned of some of that to globalise it. Peterkingiron (talk) 10:10, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

History/Early Toll Roads

I could stuff this into the bottom of "Structure of the Article" but experience has shown that gets little notice if you do that, though really it belongs there. So my apologies in advance.

Really I think the "Early Toll Roads", i.e. History, section should come first-- or perhaps Etymology comes first (I will dig out some reliable sources for this)-- before going into modern methods of payment etc etc. In most articles the history usually comes first. SimonTrew (talk) 19:53, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Criticism section

The criticism section needs to be expanded because it doesn't address the negative impact toll roads can have with regards to tourism. I found this document from 1998 that gives some numbers regarding potential negative impact of toll interstates on tourist spending, however it's 11 years out of date now so I'm hesitant to add it to the article. There must be some criticism out there for things like the Westpark Tollway which appear to be set up to not allow "non-locals" to use the road due to the requirement that every vehicle have a transponder. There are also some examples (just look at any US road atlas and I bet this holds true elsewhere) where the only way to enter a city is to have to pay a toll, which once again must have attracted some criticism. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 16:21, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Photo request

It would be cool to have an 1800s-era photo or illustration depicting an early turnpike. -- Beland 13:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Have a look here (however, there is a copyright on the picture) http://www.flickr.com/photos/8601677@N03/1285869104/