Talk:Time I

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Metal

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Metal, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of heavy metal music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MetalWikipedia:WikiProject MetalTemplate:WikiProject MetalHeavy Metal articles

Archives

Oct 2006–Jan 2010

Genre warring

The genre war is the most pathetic part of all of Wikipedia; however, there can be no warring if there is no album. So I have removed the genres entirely since editors seem adamant on continuously changing the genres for an album that hasn't even been released. In the future, only genres with reliable sources will be allowed; all others removed. Reversions and genre warriors will be reported for vandalism. Do editors agree with me or not? Please comment below. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 18:24, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I can agree with that. Backtable _{Speak to me}^{concerning my deeds.} 01:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I dont' because you sound like a prick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.89.101.156 (talk) 10:11, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nice to see you again. But yeah, I probably wrote that too harshly. I used to be pretty annoyed by genre warring. WP:OR and WP:OPINION versus WP:V. Reaching consensus on the talk page of which genres (if there're more than one or two) should be allowed in the infobox is the secret. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 18:46, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

An update on the album

I absolutely can't wait until Jari does some interviews. Then maybe he'll repeat this information to secondary sources. In the meantime, his latest post on his messageboard talks about a couple of tracks nearing completion and more reasons why the album is taking forever to be completed (with the suggestion that it may never be released!).

Messageboard entry

The reason why I´ve been and will continue to be "under the radar" is because I´ve needed to focus on the album 100% and needed to "get away from it all" until it´s finished.
The reason why people are upset is because they can´t understand the situation from the outside. I´ve tried to explain it few times, but it seems that some people still don´t understand. This isn´t your "basic traditional metal album" or not even a "basic traditional orchestral metal album". Only way people can understand if they´ll come to my humble home studio and see/hear the projects/music for themselves.
I have to make this album complitely the wrong way (the hard way) how orchestral albums like this should be made, because I´m a poor bastard. It takes weeks to make orchestrations and all the synths, samples and FX to one riff/part, because I can´t do it all in one project, in real time and in a big template. And a song could have 10-20 riffs/parts, so you get the picture why it is taking so long. Actually considering the circumstances I´ve worked quite fast.
The other thing is, that I don´t want to release albums with poor production again. Even if it means I won´t release albums anymore in my life. I´ll just make crappy demos for my own amusement then. You know, I have probably 10 albums worth of great material, but most of them probably won´t ever see the light of day. I´ll take them to my grave rather than release them with crappy production. That´s just stubborn me. Deal with it!
I´m in the same boat as you guys. The wait is killing me too, but it is what it is. No need to get angry. You know I´ve already gone through every emotion between sadness&hate and I´ve reached a totally new "zombie like" state, but a "moderately happy zombie". I figured no point of being mad at the world.
But from January when I got to move back home, I´ve had a good workflow. So I will just keep working and we´ll just have to see how it goes.
Land of Snow and Sorrow is complitely finished. Storm and Silver Leaves are about to be done soon. There´s still plenty to go with the other songs, but clearly the victory is near. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, I hope it´s not a train though `cause the mix is still big question mark, I don´t know if my Mac can handle it.
Giving updates when nothing major hasn´t happened and explaining myself and the situation over and over again is really starting to sound like complaining and I don´t want to complain or sound negative! So the next update will come when something big is happening.
So please just relax until then and meanwhile there´s plenty of other good bands to listen to... like ABBA!

— Jari, WinterMadness.net messageboard post

Of course, forums are "largely unacceptable" and the source is primary, but I think if there's a consensus, we can lightly use WP:IAR to reference some of the material here, in hopes that it can be replaced in the (far) future with secondary sources. Otherwise, it's a good read. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 10:10, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to Wikipedia:RS#Statements_of_opinion, "Never use self-published books, zines, websites, webforums, blogs and tweets as a source for material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject of the biographical material." Does this mean it's okay to use some of the above quoted post as sourced material? – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 10:21, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I totally wouldn't mind making an exception here. It looks like an official release from one of the band members. If you want to put this on the article, then you have my encouragement.

By the way, ir probably is very hard to comprehend his current situation.

Backtable _{Speak to me}^{concerning my deeds.} 21:19, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I know he had apartment renovations (landlord's request) that booted him out of his aptmt for a few months, and it sounds like he returned in January. I think some of this information would go nicely on both the Time article and on his band's article. I'll wait to see if anyone else pitches in; if not, I'll add it the info and it can always be removed if I'm totally breaking policy. It's a bit of a catch-22 that he releases updates on a forum instead of on his website, but it's also less formal (he isn't going through a PR agent). Thanks for your reply! – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 22:35, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, Keraunoscopia. Backtable _{Speak to me}^{concerning my deeds.} 01:09, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Again, thanks for your input, Backtable. Just to conclude this discussion, I was hoping there'd be at least one more editor's input, just to get a nice round consensus or at least acknowledgement of the matter, so I started a brief discussion on the WikiProject Albums talk page (archived) and found that using the messageboard posting, in this case, is entirely acceptable. WP:SELFPUB was given as another guideline. I'll begin incorporating updates as needed. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 23:17, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cool stuff. Keep up the great work on wikipedia. Backtable _{Speak to me}^{concerning my deeds.} 01:12, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Album Cover

Hello everyone!

Usually i'm writing in the german Wikipedia, so therefore i don't know much about the laws concerning the use of album covers in the english Wikipedia. But now to my concern:

As you maybe know, the album cover of "Time" was already released, so should it not be uploaded here in the en:WP and shown in this Article ? Here a link to the cover: http://img190.imageshack.us/i/timey.jpg/

Greetings, --Trollhead (talk) 21:46, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I personally don't see why it shouldn't be uploaded up on here. I would support it being uploaded. Backtable _{Speak to me}^{concerning my deeds.} 22:48, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, so could you do that ? --Trollhead (talk) 23:04, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, that cover is not officially released. The artist "leaked" it on his MySpace page, which upset Jari Mäenpää, who asked it to be removed immediately. The image you've linked to was uploaded in 2009, which definitely points to that leaked version. Also, Jari stated on his message board that the cover is still incomplete. Uploading the image onto either the US Wikipedia or Commons sites would be in violation of several copyright and fair-use laws. I don't know about the Germany Wikipedia, but if it follows similar traditional guidelines, then even having the image on the German Time article would be construed as original research, since there are absolutely no sites that will confirm that it is the cover. (Jari never confirmed it was the cover, he merely requested it be taken down and said the "cover"—could be any cover—is incomplete.) – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 00:03, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, sorry for my mistake, then. I don't think I knew all that when I approved it. Backtable _{Speak to me}^{concerning my deeds.} 04:49, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. I did a quick check on Wintersun news and messageboard before posting, just to make sure the cover hadn't been released and I wasn't aware of it. I just remember the leak being a big deal with Jari on the messageboards : ) – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 05:48, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, ok i see. No, the german wikipedia is concerning that even more strict than the english one. Covers are just allowed if they are so simple, that there is no need (in the opinion of the german law) to protect them. A good exmaple would be AC/DCs Back in Black. Just A Black Square with the AC/DC-Logo and the Album Name. So therefore this (or even the final cover) would never have a chance to be uploaded on the german wikipedia. And the second problem is, in the german Wikipedia are no articles allowed about themes which will happen in the future. Because of the fact, that "Time" isn't released yet there is also no article about it in the Wikipedia. But thanks for answering my questions. Let's hope that "Time" will be released soon ;) --Trollhead (talk) 11:20, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delayed again...?

According to one of Jari's latest posts, Time's largest tracks can't be completed until all his plug-ins are released in 64-bit. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 23:45, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, thank you for bringing that up here. That could be important for the article. Backtable _{Speak to me}^{concerning my deeds.} 03:53, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. His posts are very informative. It'd probably be a little deviant from most articles on Wikipedia, but a good portion of the making of Time could be based on his posts. We also find out that he's been using Cubase 5 and a Mac, among other things. It's good stuff! – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 03:59, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Album released in two parts

Can we get a source that specifically states that the album will be released in two parts, and that the second release is actually the second half of the album, and not an extra release (like an entire acoustic version of the album as he has said could be possible)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.36.1.208 (talk) 20:30, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Shure, here you are ;) [1]. And now, everyone who feels to be called for this job: Go ahead ;) --Trollhead (talk) 18:07, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Two albums, one article?

Just thinking out loud, will there really be a need for two articles? The only differences between Time I and II will be artwork and release dates, possibly a few other things of note, but nothing that would really pad out an entire article. Time was always one album until it came time to fit the songs onto a CD, which proved impossible, and this allows Jari some more time to work on the other songs a bit longer—but meanwhile, he's now busy with concerts, rehearsals, and down-mixing music into a live-presentation format. So I'm wondering if maybe this article won't simply end up being Time I and Time II or similar. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 21:11, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think that for the meantime, Time II should not be a separate article, which is a no-brainer since there is only limited imformation about it available. I don't know about when there will be more information available, but two albums having the same article may not be unreasonable. Besides, Time was originally broadcasted as a single album, which it's not anymore. Although I will reserve further opinion until Time II has more information available, I can understand why you would suggest that the two albums have one article. Backtable ^{Speak to me}_{concerning my deeds.} 00:01, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction paragraph

I think someone has messed up the introduction paragraph with album Reception section. Anyone can fix that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mifzal (talk • contribs) 03:41, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

fixed --Львівське (говорити) 07:34, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Melodic Death Metal is unfitting.

I personally hear nothing that even remotely resembles Melodic Death Metal on Time I. Screams and blast beats does not necessarily mean it's Death Metal, and there are no guitar riffs that I would associate with Melodic Death Metal. Neither is Power Metal really a proper way of describing it. It's Symphonic indeed, but not exactly Power. Although I personally find more traces of Black Metal than Death Metal on the record, I would personally suggests something along the line of "Extreme Symphonic Metal", or "Symphonic Extreme Metal". I won't edit the article, but I thought I'd bring this up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.22.97.13 (talk) 17:11, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia isn't for opinions. It's for sourced material. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 19:08, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm with Keraunoscopia on this one. Wikipedia is a place for verifiable, reliable information, and not the subjective analyses of anyone and everyone to be on articles. Elsewhere on Wikipedia, there is needless controversy concerning musical genres, and as of this post, the controversy here has been surprisingly yet thankfully low, with only minor incidents. Backtable ^{Speak to me}_{concerning my deeds.} 22:48, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"..Marred by many delays"

Doesn't saying the album "ended up being marred by many delays" suggest that the late release somehow ruined it or made it worse, which is not the kind of objective writing an encyclopedia needs. Willknowsalmosteverything (talk) 18:51, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]