Talk:State road D.400 (Turkey)

Merger and comments

I merged the two articles together. It is stupid to have two articles about the same road. Please don't restore or revert without discussion first.

In doing the merger, I copy edited the text of the article. A lot of work still needs to be done on this article to meet expectations of a good article on a highway.

• The article previously had graphics or styled text that looked like highway markers/shields in the middle of the text. That is not allowed per MOS:ICON or MOS:RJL.
• The article needs an infobox added. If you need help adding or setting up {{infobox road}} in this article, let me know. I am more than happy to help with that. You can, and should, use the icons for different highways in the infobox. The infobox that has been added should have additional information added to it.
• The article needs a section, usually called "route description" that describes where the road is located and the route it follows from one end to the other.
• There should also be a history section that details the history of the road.
• The last section that should be in article is already here, almost. What is called "Itinerary" in this article, or what was called "Table of distances" in the other one is formatted wrong. Neither version complies with MOS:RJL, the "road junction list" section of the Manual of Style. I copied the "Table of distances" from "Datça Mersin highway" here only because it has more information.

I am not taking any position in the edit-warring over which article is "correct" or whatever. It's just stupid though to have two articles on the same road. Please work together to improve this one article. As a compromise, I tried to bring content from both together to this one. I suggest that if someone wants to make a change to the article, that he proposes that change in a section on this talk page. I'm very willing to help anyone improve this article. I have written over 100 Good Articles on roads in the US, including six articles that are now Featured Articles and another six articles that have passed the U.S. Roads WikiProject A-Class Review. Imzadi 1979 → 21:08, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Now, I just edited the table. I added a column just for the province which allowed me to remove all of the colors. I also added {{jctbtm}} which is the footer row at the bottom of the table. By adding that, the mileages could be removed to simplify the table. (If a reader wants to convert the kilometer value to a mile value, he can use the conversion listed at the bottom of the table.) To comply with MOS:RJL in the end though, only one distance column should be used, not three. If you have questions, please ask. Imzadi 1979 → 21:44, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Oppose merging: I don't think the adjective stupid is a convenient word in an encyclopaedic discussion. Besides this discussion should have been carried before the merging. Anyway, there were two articles because they were not identical.

1. State road D400 covered all the way from Datça to Esendere. (2057 km. or 1278 miles) . But Datça Mersin highway covered only half of this distance. (977 km or 607 miles) Because after Mersin, the vehicles usually transfer to motorway at the east of Mersin.
2. Turkey uses km for distance measurement and in State road D400 the distances were given in terms of km. However this is English encyclopaedia and miles are more understandable for most of the readers. So in Datça Mersin highway distances were presented both in km and in miles.
3. In article State road D400 only the distance from Datça was presented. In Datça Mersin highway both the forward and the reverse distances were presented.
4. Unlike State road D400, in Datça Mersin highway the provinces were also shown.

Consequently, both articles had some information where the other article lacked. (This was what I previously wrote to User:ont after he tried to delete the Datça Mersin highway . ) Even after merging some information is still lost. And a further comment; copy and paste merging results in the loss of page history of one of the articles. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 05:47, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

To reply to your points above:

1. If they are the same road, one article can cover both. There is no need to have two, short, redundant articles when one will cover the single road. Why have two stub articles say the same thing, when one start-class article can to the same? Also, as things are edited or expanded in the future, there's no risk of one article contradicting the other.
2. No, highway articles use the dominant measurement system of the subject country. Measurements given in the prose of the article have conversions, but the junction table is given in only one system, per MOS:CONVERSIONS and MOS:RJL. This is settled practice. MOS:CONVERSIONS says:
   

   When units are part of the subject of a topic—nautical miles in articles about the history of nautical law, SI units in scientific articles, yards in articles about American football—it can be excessive to provide conversions every time a unit occurs. It could be best to note that this topic will use the units (possibly giving the conversion factor to another familiar unit in a parenthetical note or a footnote), and link the first occurrence of each unit but not give a conversion every time it occurs.

   
   For that reason, MOS:RJL requires the footer at the bottom of the table, but not a second column with the alternate measurement system.
3. Both distances are currently given in the merged article, but per MOS:RJL, only one distance should be given. This is settled practice.
4. I put the provinces in the table, using the format required from MOS:RJL. Someone will need to add the province(s) after Mersin to the table.

The merged article has all of the information from both. I was very careful to bring everything over, and even expand on what was here after the merger. As for copy/paste mergers: as long as the edit summaries in the page history (see [1]) state the source of the content, and the old article is converted to a redirect (which it is) then none of the page history is lost, and policy is satisfied. Imzadi 1979 → 14:18, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Imzadi, previously thank you very much againist the edit war between me and Nedim. We need to contrib more about Turkish Highways (both D- roads and Otoyollar.)

About the article's construction; I think, the km table on the article should be show its sections (400-01, 400-02 ... 400-XX) as cited by KGM's road maps.

Also notice, another article started by Nedim that should be a disambiguation page instead of deletion. And why Nedim's POV name isn't on the Turkish wikipedia instead of this? OnurT 19:23, 4 May 2011 (UTC)