Talk:Sparks (band)

Good Article

I've just nominated this for good article status, which I think it deserves. Hopefully get some more eyes on it KaptKos 10:48, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

After reading, checking image copyright and 1 minor format using <br clear=all> if have promoted to GA status. Well done to all who contributed to the article Gnangarra 12:56, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup!

Okay, this needs work. I can't handle it. For starters, the discography... hardly any of the links actually lead anywhere, and with the exception of Kimono My House (which has the wrong cover), they all lead somewhere totally unrelated (see Indiscreet, Interior Design, and... well, let's just say Balls leads exactly where it's expected). The links section could use a bit of weeding and condensing. The article itself is not very comprehensive; for one thing, it doesn't mention anything about working with Giorgio Moroder.

C'mon. These guys are about to release their twentieth album. Give 'em the royal treatment.

---

I just fixed the album problem (accidentally following the Balls link not remember what else besides a Sparks record is called that)... I wish I knew more about Sparks, otherwise I'd help expand the article.

History Rewrite

Just completed an initial rewrite of the history section. Please correct my bad spelling/grammer and factual insccuracies as well as expand everything, espicially the mid/late 80s early 90s bit as I can find next to nothing on this period.

Suggestion for what to do next appreciated. I think a reputations section, influences and influence on sections, collaboration as well as tidying up the discographies and getting some pics/clips are all in order.

Please help - you know these guys deserve a proper article --KaptKos 15:01, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

excellent rewrite kaptKos, the atricle is looking so much better now. I've corrected the date of Terminal Jive from '81 to '80. Also I think this line needs attention :"The follow up albums, Indescreet, produced by Tony Visconti, and Propaganda, with Winwood returning as producer", as it makes it sound like Indescreet was released before Propaganda. Jason

I've just redone the line myself by cutting & pasting the original sentence, so that the sentence is maintained in KaptKos own words. Jason

My mistake, I rearranged the comment on the album covers so they flow like your edit--KaptKos 09:46, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the quote attributed to John Lennon ("Christ, they've got Hitler on the telly!"). Lennon was in the USA for the whole of 1974, so it is next to impossible that he would have been watching Top of the Pops. I know the quote was referenced, I just think that the original article was unreliable on this count. There are a lot of apocryphal Lennon quotes out there, most of which seem to forget that he left the UK at the beginning of the 70s and never went back. I have to say, I thought Ron Mael looked like Hitler when I saw him on TOTP, so you can quote me, but I'm not quite as famous as John Lennon... Hinschelwood 18:23, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Influenced by Steve Reich, maybe

Just added some stuff bout the use of repeated lyrics on recent albums and seems to me this is highly influenced by Steve Reich, but I haven't come across any refs for this. If someone could come up with something along these lines that would be cool, I'll drop a line on Reich talk as well KaptKos 09:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Album stubs

All albums now have stubs. Please expand and correct as you see fit--KaptKos 10:33, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Quick notes

First of all, Weird Al's new album has a song which is reportedly a Sparks style parody. I haven't heard anything by Sparks myself, and I don't know yet if there's any official word from Al on this (he usually confirms the style parodies when asked), so I'll leave it up to someone else to decide if it's accurate and worth noting in the article.

Second, does the first sentence in the article really need a footnote/citation? It's just a general description like those found in the beginning of articles for countless other groups and singers. - Ugliness Man 13:13, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

First: A Sparks in Popular Culture (or something similar) section could be created to accomodate this sort of thing. I've removed some stuff like this before as when its in the main body it just looks like trivia (and it would be invariably unreferenced)

Second: Having a reference for a statement is better than not, regardless of where it occures. Isn't it?--KaptKos 13:54, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I finally got my copy of Straight Outta Lynwood today. What's significant about this album is that it's the first time that he's mentioned the artists which he paid tribute to in pastiches. In the past, he always thanked those who gave permission for parodies and for use of portions of unaltered lyrics in his polka medlies, but, for example, Devo didn't get thanked for "Dare to be Stupid" and Talking Heads didn't get thanked for "Dog Eat Dog".

Anyway, the point is, among the many names listed under "special thanks to" are "Ron & Russell Mael". Not only that, but in the animated video for the song "Virus Alert", one of the keyboard players has a mustache that looks pretty much the same as Ron's. I'd call this a confirmation that "Virus Alert" is indeed an explicit Sparks pastiche. - Ugliness Man 17:41, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Popular culture section

Tidied up this section as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style, removed the wiki link from "Virus Alert" as it redirects to "Straight..". Also added {{Fact}} tags. This article is very well sourced, any detail added to it, as should be the case with all wiki articles, needs references to is sources, see Wikipedia:Citing sources. These must be external sources - do not use circular references to other wiki articles, any unsourced material will be removed--KaptKos 10:06, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

How exactly am I supposed to "cite" the liner notes of the CD? I don't have a scanner. - Ugliness Man 10:35, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

If you haven't already read Wikipedia:Citing sources as I suggested above, maybe now would be a good time. Citing liner notes works pretty much like citing journals (magazines, professional journals etc). You don't have to scan the notes and upload them. The source you will ref is widely available, I don't, and probably won't, have access to it but I know other beside you do, therefore I know if you fake or misinterperate the info in the source someone else can refute or correct your changes. Also the more sources the better, if you google "Weird Al" +sparks you'll also find plenty which you can ref. The point of this is that sourced info has greater validity/staying power than unsourced. Check out the journal sources refs for Mojo or Record Collector in the article for the liner notes and the Online newspaper edition(Scotsman, Independant etc) sources for anything you find through google. Drop a line here if you need any help--KaptKos 11:53, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Section should be removed IMO. Neither of these 'facts' are worth mentioning. - Coil00 09:45, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree regardless of what I said above, I'm sick of these crappy sections. If the detail is worth mentioning in should be incorporated into the main body, these are not worthy, IMO, of being in the main body, therefore they should not be included anywhere in this article. Stick them in Weird Al and The Gilmore Girls if you must--KaptKos 10:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Weird Al is considered by many to be a pop culture compass of sorts. At least a few artists, including Nirvana, have stated that they felt they "made it" when Al chose them as a parody target. For such a relatively obscure band to be given a nod from a grammy-winning satirist, known largely for lampooning the likes of Madonna, [[Michael Jackson] and Eminem (with their blessing and support), is at the very least noteworthy.

And returning to the increasingly circular debate of a citeable source, there's an article on MTV.com in which he unambiguously identifies the subjects of each of the pastiches on the new album, including the Sparks tribute... unfortunately, the way the website is constructed (it's pretty much one big Shockwave interface), it's impossible to get a direct link URL to that article, so it appears that will have to join the long list of things we're going to pretend don't exist due to technicalities. - Ugliness Man 14:53, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Weird Al stuff belongs in the Weird Al article, not in the Sparks article. If we were to include every public mention or reference made to an artist in their article, well, then wikipedia would just be collection of irrelevant lists. - Coil00 15:21, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Merge proposal

The article Halfnelson (band) should be merged into this one, as it was the same band, under a different name. There's space for it in this article - I don't believe their earlier incarnation needs it own article. Terraxos 13:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

On the other hand, they should be findable as HalfNelson, and a simple redirect could be confusing.212.32.66.106 (talk) 18:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Just a well overdue addendum to the halfnelson/sparks history, which in some form is all over the place, regarding John Mendelssohn and myself as members of the band:  John and I were essentially Christopher Milk from about 1967 to 1973 with others involved, of course.  Sometime in 1968  Ron and Russ, who were friendly cross town rivals, asked John and I to do a couple of tracks for them.  By this time Earl had left to work at Brother records, I think.  The tracks were John on drums and me on bass.  We worked to a click track.  Chilly Farn Farny was one title, I forget the other.  At no time were we members of the band, nor were we ever fired.  Just friends helping friends.  This garbage has stuck in my craw for a long time, and I hope the truth will out at this time.  For the record, my phone is 303-449-1676, and I don`t like email.  If interested parties want to talk, feel free.  Sincerely, blind surly ralph, bluesboy, wonderboy (no sheds) oswald.75.71.74.40 (talk) 00:07, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SparksRollerCoaster.jpg

Image:SparksRollerCoaster.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SparksBuckinghamPalace.jpg

Image:SparksBuckinghamPalace.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Singles in the album table

Who cares about the bonus tracks? Why not list the singles of the album instead of bonus tracks?? 91.8.171.227 (talk) 20:24, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Ingmar Bergman radio musical

The Seduction of Ingmar Bergman was broadcast on Swedish radio last night, August 14 - world premiere - and can be listened to here: http://www.sr.se/webbradio/webbradio.asp?type=db&Id=1898771&BroadcastDate=&IsBlock= (the rm file will be up for about a month) A stage version of this ironic, very Sparksy story is something the band hope to do in the future. I added a paragraph about this project to the Revival section. Enjoy! /Strausszek (talk) 23:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

• I've nominated the article on The Seduction of Ingmar Bergman for WP:GA. --JN466 15:26, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Sparks (band)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

As part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles' Project quality task force ("GA Sweeps"), all old good articles are being re-reviewed to ensure that they meet current good article criteria (as detailed at WP:WIAGA.) I have determined that this article needs some work to meet current criteria, outlined below:

• Paragraphs are composed of three or more sentences; no less. All the one or two-sentence groupings need to either be fleshed out, merged with other groups, or cut entirely.
• Apparently unsourced statements in the article include:
  • "Also in this period, the duo appeared in the video for Justin Hawkins's cover of This Town Ain't Big Enough For The both Of Us, in which Ron and Russell play the referee and MC at a darts match between Hawkins and darts champion Phil Taylor. This version of "This Town" reached No. 6 in the UK charts."
  • "On May 12, 2008, Sparks released the single "Good Morning", taken from the album Exotic Creatures Of The Deep."
  • "Each night, they performed an album in its entirety followed by a rare track — many of the songs have never been performed live before. The band asked their fans to visit their website and vote for the track that they'd most like to hear the band perform during the second half of the 21st concert after the première of Exotic Creatures Of The Deep, though Russell Mael admitted that he and Ron would probably influence the poll a little."
  • "Fans who bought a "Golden Ticket" (which allowed entry into all 21 gigs) also received a poster signed by the band and a CD single entitled Islington N1, a reference to the postal address of the venue for the first 20 gigs."
  • "In 2009 the band played two consecutive nights at the London Forum on 20 and 21 March. The played Exotic Creatures of the Deep in its entirety at both gigs, followed by Kimono My House in its entirety on the first night and No 1 In Heaven in its entirety on the second night."
  • Most of the "Style" subsection, including "Sparks' musical style has changed dramatically over their almost forty-year career. In the beginning they attempted to emulate the sound of their English heroes, such as The Who, Syd Barrett-era Pink Floyd and The Kinks, sometimes even pretending to be an English band while on the LA club circuit. They relocated to England during the Glam rock era where, despite cutting an odd figure on this scene, they found success with their polished brand of intricate pop tunes and convoluted lyrics. By the second half of the decade, they were concerned that the sound they had developed while based in England was in danger of becoming stale; they returned to LA, determined to adopt a more "West Coast" sound. This they achieved with producer Rupert Holmes on Big Beat and (sans Holmes) on Introducing Sparks."
  • File:Sparks this town aint big enough for the both of us(clip).ogg, File:Sparks Big Boy(clip).ogg, File:Sparks When Do I Get To Sing My Way(clip).ogg, and File:Sparks Perfume(clip).ogg have weak fair use rationales and are not supported by significant critical commentary; as such, they currently fail WP:NFCC.
• The lead is fairly well-developed and generally covers the major aspects of the article, but contains info (such as credited influences) that I do not see in the article body. Lead and body need to be harmonized.

I am putting the article on hold for one week pending improvements to the above. Please keep me appraised of progress and status on this page. Thanks, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 20:31, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

As no progress has been made on the above in the allotted time, I am delisting the article. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 19:40, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Chart table

Any chance of a chart table of say UK, US, Germany as on the pages for several other bands? It would show neatly how their career was resurrected by Giorgio Moroder and overall how it took a decade for them to achieve recognition in their own country. I must also take issue with the phrase 'Whilst never achieving peak chart success', pedantically this is correct, but 'This Town' getting to number 2 in 1974 is pretty damn close! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yacht Dance (talk • contribs) 17:04, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Cultural References

Many pages have a section listing other references to the subject at hand. I think it is worthy to note that Paul McCartney 'parodied' Ron Mael in his 1980 video for "Coming Up". if it is okay to add this see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDBkySeyiDo Ronster76 (talk) 05:55, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

I probably can't support this well enough to get it into the main article, but music fan Matt Howarth had a long running comic called Those Annoying Post Brothers about Ron and Russ Post. There is a degree of homage.Nickpheas (talk) 09:01, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Neutrality

Whole article reads like it was written by die hard fan of a band. Charts topping singles (while not topped even single one), just ridiculous lines about pioneering plenty of musical styles and making major influences and so on - everything based on some kinda interviews. Come'on, one musician sad: yeah, Sparks are great - does it mean they exerted major influence on him?--Submixster (talk) 14:13, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

I've got to admit, I noticed this, as well. I know the thing's been on and off the 'Good Article' listings for a while; would improving the neutrality help?

Cuddy2977 (talk) 17:35, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

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Infobox image change

Just changed the infobox image. I don't think the FFS [Franz Ferdinand Sparks] image accurately represent Sparks very well; it can cause confusion to new readers when the article says it's formed by brothers Ron and Russell, so I replaced it with the AVRO image until there is an adequate image of Sparks in 2010s without the background of the other band. Misterpither (talk) 23:45, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

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Legacy

I've added multiple sources but I haven't found anything for major bands like ABBA, Pixies and Arcade Fire. I think it is wiser to withdraw the following acts from the article: Dax Riggs, Arcade Fire, MGMT, Panda Bear, Pixies and ABBA.
And obviously, Queen must have been influenced by them as Freddie Mercury & co were the support band of Sparks at London's Marquee in 1972. Plus according to Russell Mael, Brian May had been approached to play guitars on "This Town..." and he advised them another guitarist. This would need to be investigated as well. Woovee (talk) 21:14, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

From the Queen's Concerts website (linked in the references) it appears that Queen played on Dec 20, 1972 with Fantasy, and Sparks played the next night, on the 21st. I did not see evidence of Queen 'opening' for Sparks, although absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. 137.187.109.190 (talk) 14:36, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Agree. The Marquee poster image just says "Two Live Groups" for Dec 20, so I have removed that claim. But I've left that source in, as it has the poster image. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:46, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

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on American Bandstand

This piece could still use some elaboration on the band's attempts to infiltrate the American (so-called) consciousness. Heck, until the 1990s I thought they were a Brit band.

I was a big Alice Cooper fan in the early '70s. When I saw that AB was going to feature the song "No More Mr. Nice Guy," that's all I needed to get me to tune in. Well, actually, it wasn't the AC band, rather a peripatetic singer & somewhat cadaverous pianist, in somewhat Cooperish clothing & makeup; at one point, the latter chased the former across the stage, wielding what I think was a large foam mallet. Dick Clark said they were Sparks, and the song of course was "No More Mr. Nice Guys."

THe second time I saw Sparks on AB, they performed (mimed?) "Talent Is An Asset." I have no idea which had the earlier original broadcast date.

Now that I think on it, I recall TV ads for Propaganda.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 02:36, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Band members

Are we sure that band membership was just limited to the Mael brothers? I'm seeing a lot of sites treat the musicians who played with them as full-fledged members. 72.208.178.248 (talk) 06:22, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be a clean way to treat the matter. Clearly the Maels have always been the nucleus of the group, at least- the ones directing the group creatively and in business. Past them, the three other musicians who initially played with the band (the Mankeys and Feinstein) have a good claim to be members, as they performed as part of Sparks both on stage and on record, and are pictured on the covers of the band's first two albums; but they were not such principal members that they couldn't be left behind when the Maels relocated to England in 1973. (There are two other musicians who were members of Halfnelson before Jim Mankey and Harley Feinstein, but who left before the band cut any recods- Ralph Oswald on bass, and John Mendelssohn on drums. Neither is mentioned anywhere in the article as it stands.) Past that, it gets even murkier- there were full, regular Sparks lineups in the mid 70s and early 80s, that performed both on stage and on record with the Maels, but which were comprised, evidently, of hired musicians, who were let go at the Maels' whim. Are those guys members? Reliable sources tend not to delve into the minutiae of whether someone who played with the band was a full member, a touring member, a session musician, a guest musician, etc, so I don't think there's a clear way to solve this problem. The current listing of "former members and supporting musicians" is a kludge, but probably the best that can be managed under the circumstances. Yspaddadenpenkawr (talk) 14:11, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Listening examples removed

I removed the four non-free audio listening examples per WP:NFCCP entry number 8: no "contextual significance" was supplied. Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Music samples, every non-free listening example must have a description of what the listener is hearing, setting the context. Binksternet (talk) 16:33, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

There's a chance File:Sparks this town aint big enough for the both of us(clip).ogg won't be spotted as an orphan, as the user who uploaded it stopped editing 14 years ago? It's lasted all this time untouched? Probably deserves a few tweaks to save it. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:51, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it would require a process which is backwards to my usual one. Usually, I am looking at a prose description published in reliable sources, and I think to myself "this should be a listening example". I select a part of the song demonstrating the prose description, and I upload a short sample of it. I insert the sample, describe what is heard in the sample, and cite the source.

Coming at it the other way would entail searching in published sources to support a sample that was already chosen by somebody else, for their own reasons. It's possible but it's more difficult. Binksternet (talk) 19:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Well, there's the whole 3 minutes 6 seconds, in the video, over at the single, so maybe not essential. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:34, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Just my opinion, but I honestly think that this should be a featured article.

Sparks are just one of those bands that many more people just need to know about. It would be really awesome if this article could get featured somehow, one way or another. 2601:204:1:9430:6127:51B4:FC77:72D7 (talk) 02:45, 16 June 2023 (UTC)