Talk:Benjamin Franklin

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Benjamin Franklin (January 17, 1706 – April 17, 1790) was an American polymath: a writer, scientist, inventor, statesman, diplomat, printer, publisher and political philosopher. Among the most influential intellectuals of his time, Franklin was one of the Founding Fathers of the United States; a drafter and signer of the Declaration of Independence; and the first postmaster general. Franklin became a successful newspaper editor and printer in Philadelphia, the leading city in the colonies, publishing The Pennsylvania Gazette at age 23. He became wealthy publishing this and Poor Richard's Almanack, which he wrote under the pseudonym "Richard Saunders". As a scientist, his studies of electricity made him a major figure in the American Enlightenment and the history of physics. His inventions include the lightning rod, bifocals, glass harmonica and the Franklin stove. This 1778 portrait of Franklin was painted by Joseph Duplessis.

Painting credit: Joseph Duplessis

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Friendship with Voltaire and the Les Neuf Sœurs Paris Lodge

The article titled Voltaire affirms:

Voltaire was initiated into Freemasonry a little over a month before his death. On 4 April 1778, he attended la Loge des Neuf Sœurs in Paris, and became an Entered Apprentice Freemason. According to some sources, "Benjamin Franklin ... urged Voltaire to become a freemason; and Voltaire agreed, perhaps only to please Franklin." However, Franklin was merely a visitor at the time Voltaire was initiated, the two only met a month before Voltaire's death, and their interactions with each other were brief.

Franklin was not a mere visitor of the Les Neuf Sœurs Paris Lodge; he was the "ambassador" to France for the English colonies in America ([1]).

He also was Les Neuf Sœurs' Venerable Master (essentiels.bnf.fr, archived https://archive.is/wip/6RqkE on 22-01-2025).

In this sense, in founders.archives.gov is available a letter dated May 21, 1779 (archived https://archive.is/Djjmz); another letter is dated back to [https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-31-02-0250 January 10, 1780.

The same scottishritenmj.org ends: "it is no surprise Franklin became Venerable Master of The Lodge of Nine Sisters, serving from 1779 to 1781."

The current WP article lacks of this statement.

References

79.50.174.69 (talk) 21:35, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Because it's not that important, all else being equal, what social clubs historical figures are members of. It's likely not worth mentioning unless there's anything he did other than "having friends". Remsense ‥ 论 23:18, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, this seems important to include. Not only because of the prominence of this Lodge but the contacts and trust Franklin would have obtained as a member. Randy Kryn (talk) 00:14, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

If there's a good source to cite that ropes all that in, then I agree of course. Remsense ‥ 论 00:18, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

Maybe the IP editor who suggested the addition can find some further sources, but those they provided above may give the overview needed. Please also read the Lodge's page (Les Neuf Sœurs) which seems to have a focus on its prominence in the American Revolution (likely much of that due to Franklin). Randy Kryn (talk) 00:24, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

"Hang together" quote.

According to the National Archives - - -

• "The famous remark attributed to BF at the signing of the Declaration, that “we must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately,” was in all likelihood not his; see Carl Van Doren, Benjamin Franklin’s Autobiographical Writings (New York, 1945), pp. 418–19."

You have a different citation for the remark. https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-22-02-0284

However, in a letter written by John Adams - - -

• "Our Crisis is at hand, and if the states do not hang together, they might as well have been “hanged Seperate,” according to Dick Penns bon Mot in 1784.2 Your Brother, John Adams"

https://founders.archives.gov/?q="hang%20together"&s=1111311111&sa=&r=6&sr=

WikiQuote merely attributes it to Franklin, along with other sources - - -

• "Statement at the signing of the Declaration of Independence (1776-07-04), quoted as an anecdote in The Works of Benjamin Franklin by Jared Sparks (1840). However, this had earlier been attributed to Richard Penn in Memoirs of a Life, Chiefly Passed in Pennsylvania, Within the Last Sixty Years (1811, p. 116). In 1801, "If we don't hang together, by Heavens we shall hang separately" appears in the English play Life by Frederick Reynolds (Life, Frederick Reynolds, in a collection by Mrs Inchbald, 1811, Google Books first published in 1801 [4]), and the remark was later attributed to 'An American General' by Reynolds in his 1826 memoir p.358. A comparable pun on "hang alone … hang together" appears in Dryden's 1717 The Spanish Fryar Google Books. The pun also appears in an April 14, 1776 letter from Carter Braxton to Landon Carter,Letters of Members of the Continental Congress, Vol.1 (1921)https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin, p.421, as "a true saying of a Wit — We must hang together or separately.""

Is it possible that this was a fairly common idiom of the time and not a particularly notable comment?

Thank you for your time, Wordreader (talk) 02:27, 29 January 2025 (UTC)