Talk:Sexual and gender-based violence in the 7 October Hamas-led attack on Israel

Extra source

The principle should be that, while we need to create articles like this from breaking news and mainstream updates, at some point we should, as they appear, gradually replace them with studies from strong RS that review the phenomena at a distance. The Lemkin Institute is one of the best sources for covering this still obscure story about rape. This came out 9 February, and is still neglected.It both accepts that sexual violence did occur, and yet is highly critical of its weaponization. Neither this article nor the other (Sexual and gender-based violence in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel) use it, and both should.

Nowhere is the need for these things more apparent than in the case of sexualized violence against women during Hamas’s October 7 attack on southern Israel. Accurate reporting on gender-based violence committed by Hamas militants has been hampered by the failure of emergency response personnel to document evidence of sexualized violence in the wake of October 7. Accurate reporting has been further hampered by the efforts of the Israeli state to use sexualized violence in a politicized manner to justify the genocide it is committing in response to Hamas’ attacks. Both of these hindrances have led to a situation where the reliability of evidence of sexualized violence on October 7 is either overstated or belittled.. . . This analysis has led us to conclude that ultimately it is not the absence of physical evidence that has stood in the way of a unified international outcry regarding sexualized violence on October 7, but the instrumentalization of sexualized violence by the Israeli state for propaganda purposes that seek to dehumanize Palestinian men and justify genocide.Statement on the Evidence of Sexualized Violence Against Israeli Women During Hamas' Attack on October 7, 2023 Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention and Human Security10 February 2024

I suggest editors download it, and review the article in the light of its observations. Nishidani (talk) 22:18, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

"propaganda purposes that seek to dehumanize Palestinian men and justify genocide" In the immortal words of Homer Simpson: D'oh!. This is not a new phenomenon, the Israelis have been using such propaganda for decades. And last I checked the Sabra and Shatila massacre is still within living memory. We already have United Nations findings from 1983 that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) were responsible for genocide. What stops them from doing it again and again? Dimadick (talk) 01:26, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

The Lemkin Institute text seems pretty good to me (apart from the amount of credence it gives to a Twitter thread by Max Blumenthal, which doesn't inspire confidence in reliability), but I'm not sure how noteworthy it is given it has had zero secondary coverage and the Institute itself doesn't seem like a very solid organisation from its website or our article. BobFromBrockley (talk) 17:36, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

It is a secondary source, 'Wikipedia articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources, i.e., a document or recording that relates to or discusses information originally presented elsewhere,' so why are you asking for secondary coverage of a secondary source? One cannot mention Blumenthal as a primary source, but you can if cited in a secondary source, as he is there. The paper refers to many primary source arguments, and interprets them critically.Nishidani (talk) 18:59, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

It is also worth checking that the account Winter_queen_lizzie may in fact be a fake account stemming back to an account, hyphen, originally created in Hebrew.

Note: I have been around Wiki for 18 years and have never seen so much twisting, misinformation, fakery and propaganda posted on our pages before. HuttonIT (talk) 15:33, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Including updates from Israeli prosecutor

There are still zero complainants in alleged cases of rapes committed by Palestinians on 7 October 2023, an Israeli prosecutor has admitted.

"Ben Hetar was also responsible for the area of ​​sexual offenses. "Unfortunately, it will be very difficult to prove these offenses," she says. "In the end, we have no complainants. What was presented in the media compared to what will ultimately emerge will be completely different. Either because the victims were murdered, or because the women who raped them are not prepared to reveal it. We contacted women's rights organizations and asked for cooperation. They told us that they simply did not contact them. There were parents who contacted the organizations and asked what to do if something happened to their daughter, but they did not disclose the abuse. "In this matter, I would lower expectations. I know there is public expectation and understand the need to address the horrific sexual crimes and sexual assaults that have been committed, but the vast majority of them will not be able to meet the threshold of proof in court, and the criticism will ultimately come to the prosecutor's"

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/yokra14200599

Bfikree (talk) 12:49, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Have added it to the page but in the future please use the proper format for editing requests. Raskolnikov.Rev (talk) 13:19, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

My apologies, this is my first time! Bfikree (talk) 13:24, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 January 2025

Add in controversies section : On January 6th 2025,former Israeli lead prosecutor on october 7th sexual violence allegations stated that:“In the end, we don’t have any complainants. What was presented in the media compared to what will eventually come together will be entirely different” Redstar0505 (talk) 13:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

This whole wikipedia page is dangerous hasbara

It was all a lie. All of it. If a prosecutor cant find a single complaint, then it means the Israeli government was lying out of there teeth everytime the y spoke on this topic, just like the beheaded babies story. Someone please correct this whole entry relabeling the disinformation or delete the whole entry. Its unacceptable to use fabrications of violence against women to justify a horrible ethnic genocide. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250106-no-rape-allegations-filed-from-7-october-reaveals-israeli-prosecutor/ 188.91.47.56 (talk) 08:17, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Lead too long + outstanding issues

The lead is currently too long, at six paragraphs, and beyond that, there is an overarching issue with the presentation of outdated or unsubstantiated material being left in situ despite subsequent issues being raised over the veracity of the purported events. A good example, which I will be addressing shortly, is the presentation in the lead of direct testimonies, via the BBC, in which the publisher makes no claims about the veracity of the statements, nor suggests that it has cross-verified them; it just un-journalistically presents the statements without qualification. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:14, 8 January 2025 (UTC)