Talk:School of Philosophy and Economic Science

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the School of Philosophy and Economic Science article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3: 2 months

School of Practical Philosophy was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 17 April 2010 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into School of Philosophy and Economic Science. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

This article was nominated for deletion on 30 August 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.

Hinduism Mid‑importance

	Hinduism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hinduism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HinduismWikipedia:WikiProject HinduismTemplate:WikiProject HinduismHinduism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Religion: New religious movements Mid‑importance

	Religion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by New religious movements work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Rechristening

Well a simple question around a complex matter: now that since 2019 SES (the UK master organisation, branches always had less 'Economy' flavour names) is known as SPES, it's time that Wikipedia follows suit. I plan to do the renaming but in an as minimal as possible way, no need to touch the many discussion areas around a movement like this and hence also its wiki: 1) Normal Wikipedia 'move' to School of Philosophy and Economic Science'. And of course different first sentences, something like 'Was know as School of Economic Science from xxx to 2019'. 2) It should automatically create a redirect page for those searching under the old name to the new one. 3) In the text as much as possible replace 'SES' abbreviation by 'School'. This seems safest, as talking about SPES in many stories about the past does not really make sense but neither does talking about SES for current and future situation.

Comments welcome, planned execution depending on sunny vs rainy days 'within next 2 weeks'. Erikdr (talk) 19:04, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Some things went wrong 1st round, sorry. Will proceed in bits and pieces. Erikdr (talk) 19:03, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Erikdr, thank you for the good find and the work. Clearly, we need to add citations for such important changes. I can't right away see where you've added any, although you have rightly updated the subject's own web address to the new one. The only potential citation I can find is here: https://www.schoolofphilosophy.org/our-new-name/

The citation raises an issue because it states that the organization's legal name has not in fact changed. Only its name for public relations purposes has. (And as you can see, that the organzation chooses to call itself by many different names is already an important part of the lede.) This raises a bit of doubt in my mind about whether the article name from SES to SPES is merited, particularly as the overwhelming majority of sources still refer to it as the SES. In principle, Wikipedia is not meant to be more faithful to an organization's own PR than to what the majority of verifiable, secondary sources say. And on the subject of this organization's PR, please be aware that this article has been a major WP:COI and WP:SOCK battleground in the past. I suggest we take this to a forum to open out discussion on naming conventions, and in the meantime I'll add the citation.

Secondly, in the body of the article your change from 'SES' to 'School' is presumably to solve the muddle about the SES/SPES names. However, there has been past discussion on this talk page that there is no consensus on whether this organization is defined as a new religious movement, a cult, a school, a sect, etc. So to find a generally acceptable term we have settled on synonyms of 'organization' and possibly 'group'. To use 'the School' with a capital letter would be misleading because it emphasises one definition; besides, it doesn't work as a shorthand by the token that we don't refer to the BBC as 'the Corporation', etc. This second point I am more sure of, and would like to WP:BOLD fix that, for your info. Cheers, --Roberthall7 (talk) 12:53, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Robert. Yes I am very much aware of the debates about what SPES should be categorised as, but I only changed SES to 'School' or 'the School' on places where before it was depicted as SES, which already is its own name and not something neutral as organization/organisation. But anyhow I don't want to spend too much time in this, as long as people can find what they look for it's good enough. Do note however that the name change seems to be more than just PR; https://schoolofphilosophy.org/pages/timeline definitely mentions "The Fellowship votes to alter the Objects, changing the name of the School to the School of Philosophy and Economic Science". Actually a name which is far more in line with the name in other countries than SES. So to me it more looks that the fact that the legal name is not changed (yet) has technical/cost reasons. Thanks again, Erikdr (talk) 18:16, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]