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Russian success, change in international order

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@Walter Tau, you add the success of Russia's "special military operation" against NATO-backed Ukraine manifests the end of the USA-lead unipolar "rules-based " international order [1] . I don't see the first source provided to refer to the war as such (a "special military operation"). I also haven't found yet where the source characterizes it as a success. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 21:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your contributions to the article. I've got most the cited text from here http://apir.iir.edu.ua/index.php/apmv/article/download/3885/3536. The "special military operation" (in quotation) is term used originally by Putin https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Special_military_operation .
The "success" is mentioned by 3rd parties here: One can argue, that some of these sites may be biased (BTW, the most biased news agency that I’ve heard personally is BBC- do you know what they say about the USA?), but you can’t argue , that all of them are:
https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/military-balance/2024/03/what-russias-momentum-in-ukraine-means-for-the-war-in-2024/
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russia-is-winning-the-war-in-ukraine/news-story/10a5d440434ef6e365fb4c056c50085e
https://www.naturalnews. /2022-06-23-army-colonel-russia-already-won-over-ukraine.html
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/09/12/scott-ritter-why-russia-will-still-win-despite-ukraines-gains/
https://tfiglobalnews.com/2023/04/26/its-official-russia-wins-the-war-us-ready-to-pull-out-of-ukraine/
https://www.globalresearch. /russia-has-won-this-war-german-journalist-says-west-lying-about-ukraine-war/5784111
https://www.rt.com/russia/588937-russia-ukraine-preparing-winter-battles/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/21/barely-10-per-cent-of-europeans-believe-ukraine-can-defeat-russia-poll
https://www.russiamatters.org/news/russia-analytical-report/russia-analytical-report-jan-2-8-2024 Walter Tau (talk) 22:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, too. We shouldn't be constructing theses using words taken from multiple sources, it's WP:SYNTH. I also checked the first source - IISS - and it reports on the success at Avdiivka, not on the success of the war.
Wiki article also should not be using Putin's terms.
We also should not be using Russian propaganda outlets. Thank you! ManyAreasExpert (talk) 22:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have relatives in Kharkiv, who were killed in this war, when Putin's bomb hit their appartment building. I do not think, I have any inclination to advance Putin's propaganda.
Special military operation is an article on wikipedia, and I used it in quotation marks to underscore the hypocrisy of the term.
I tried to provide multiple references to prove the "success" point, that it is better for Ukraine to get a peace deal sooner than later. Putin's goal was to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO, and he got it, when the first Russian missile landed in Ukrainian territory. The cited experts state, that there is no other way for Ukraine and its allies to end this war. Walter Tau (talk) 04:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On 2024-07-14 Walter Tau wrote:

Several prominent political scientists pointed out, that the success of Russia's "special military operation" against NATO-backed Ukraine manifests the end of the USA-lead unipolar "rules-based " international order, and the official start of either multipolarity or of a new bipolar World based on the competion between the United States (with European Union and NATO) and China (with BRICS and Shanghai Cooperation Organization).

In a 2024 journal article political scientists from Ukraine's Kyiv National Taras Shevchenko University concluded, that "the [Russo-Ukrainian] conflict is over the future of international order", and that “the war is structurally shifting the global balance of power and speeds up the trends set earlier by the rise of China and deterioration of the American leadership"...

Along with other recent USA-NATO military failures (e.g. in Afghanistan and in Niger), "it has exposed the limits of the West's capabilities,... and underscored the dynamics of the 'the West versus the Rest' confrontation... <The> Western hegemony, while still influential, is no longer as overwhelming as it once was."[1] Similar conclusions were reached by other experts in different countries.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14]

  • Soon later user Asarlaí deleted this whole section, even though he did not question "the change in the International Order" and did not check the provided references. Youtube is in fact an admissible reference source for wikipedia : https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Video_links . Besides youtube, I provided peer-reviewed journal articles.
  • In reply to ManyAreasExpert: I did not try to do WP:SYNTH. I cited a statement from a single reference [2], written by a Ukrainian political science professor. Other references are added to corroborate his conclusion.

I also suggest linking this explanation of Putin's goals https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/John_Mearsheimer/2014 Russian annexation of Crimea & 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. Walter Tau (talk) 12:06, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You responded to arguments criticizing your addition with something unrelated. You enhanced your edit with some russian propaganda youtube and widely criticized Mearsmeier. Having not addressed the argument, it stays. Naturally, the new addition gets removed. ManyAreasExpert (talk) 12:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ 1. Kapitonenko M. HOW THE RUSSIAN-UKRAINIAN WAR IS TRANSFORMING INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM AND INTERNATIONAL ORDER. Actual Problems of International Relations. 2024(158):26-35 doi: 10.17721/apmv.2024.158.1.26-35. https://lens.org/025-485-652-303-425 ; http://apir.iir.edu.ua/index.php/apmv/article/download/3885/3536
  2. ^ SYSTEM AND INTERNATIONAL ORDER. Actual Problems of International Relations. 2024(158):26-35 doi: 10.17721/apmv.2024.158.1.26-35.
  3. ^ Taggart J, Abraham KJ. Norm dynamics in a post-hegemonic world: multistakeholder global governance and the end of liberal international order. Rev Int Polit Econ. 2024;31(1):354-81 doi: 10.1080/09692290.2023.2213441.
  4. ^ Seiwert E. China’s ‘New International Order’: The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation in Afghanistan and Syria. Eur Asia Stud. 2024 doi: 10.1080/09668136.2023.2289870.
  5. ^ Šćepanović J. Subversive Narratives and status-Seeking: A Look at Russia's Outreach to the Developing World After the Ukraine War *. Int J. 2024 doi: 10.1177/00207020241257630.
  6. ^ Polak PR. Long Live Article 2(4) of the UN Charter? Four Ways to Save the Peaceful Rules-Based International Order after Russia's Invasion of Ukraine. Nationalities Papers. 2024 doi: 10.1017/nps.2024.40.
  7. ^ Peter M. Global Fragmentation and Collective Security Instruments: Weakening the Liberal International Order From Within. Politics Gov. 2024;12 doi: 10.17645/pag.7357.
  8. ^ Nissen C, Dreyer J. From optimist to sceptical liberalism: reforging European Union foreign policy amid crises. Int Aff. 2024 doi: 10.1093/ia/iiae013.
  9. ^ Men J. The view from China: Perspectives on the West in the Xi Jinping era. The Transatlantic Community and China in the Age of Disruption: Partners, Competitors, Rivals: Taylor and Francis; 2024. p. 58-73 doi: 10.4324/9781003273936-5.
  10. ^ Jabur shayal PDA, Safih MJ. The impact of regional and international variables on the Russian-Ukrainian war 2022. The International and Political Journal. 2024(57):1-22 doi: 10.31272/ipj.i57.277.
  11. ^ Geis A, Schröder U. The Russian War Against Ukraine and Its Implications for the Future of Liberal Interventionism. Politics Gov. 2024;12 doi: 10.17645/pag.7348.
  12. ^ Carrión-Vivar KD, Jima-González A, Alcántara-Lizárraga JÁ. Between Tradition and Pragmatism: Challenges for Latin America amid the Russia–Ukraine War. Bull Lat Am Res. 2024 doi: 10.1111/blar.13571.
  13. ^ Winkler SC. The U.S.-Chinese Strategic Competition and the Ukraine War: Implications for Asian-Pacific Security. Czech J of Int Relat. 2023;58(1):45-76 doi: 10.32422/mv-cjir.153.
  14. ^ Schirm SA. Alternative World Orders? Russia’s Ukraine War and the Domestic Politics of the BRICS. Int Spect. 2023;58(3):55-73 doi: 10.1080/03932729.2023.2236937.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 July 2024

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The war hit Romani people

https://m.thewire.in/article/rights/how-russias-war-has-hit-ukraines-roma-people/amp 2600:6C50:7E00:316:A4A0:CC7B:8B87:890 (talk) 03:25, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 06:30, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 July 2024 (Belligerents section)

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add china to Belligerents section on russia side as xi jimping and putin are allies and xi might be giving putin weapons [1] 173.72.3.91 (talk) 19:11, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: That's not the definition of a belligerent and China's involvement is mentioned in the #Russian military suppliers section – macaddct1984 (talk | contribs) 20:18, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/11/china/nato-china-russia-ukraine-intl-hnk/index.html

Requested move 30 July 2024

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Speedy close, IP editors are not allowed to open move requests for this page per the warning about Community Sanctions on this page, particularly: non-extended-confirmed editors may not make edits to internal project discussions related to the topic area, even on article talk pages. Internal project discussions include, but are not limited to...requested moves.... It's also worth noting that this specific retitling proposal was already considered and WP:SNOW-opposed in March 2022. signed, Rosguill talk 20:06, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Russo-Ukrainian War → Russia-Ukraine War – The title should just have the 2 fighting countries Russia and ukraine. most articles i see define this as the russia ukraine war. the term russo is hardly ever used so it should say russia not russo. 173.72.3.91 (talk) 15:15, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have to tell us what you want to name it, we can't guess. Slatersteven (talk) 15:17, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for now actually telling us (this was added after my reply) now explain why. Slatersteven (talk) 15:22, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, changes made to the request after I replied. Slatersteven (talk) 15:29, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i was not finished with the explanation yet 173.72.3.91 (talk) 15:32, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i wrote the request but before the explanation i got an edit conflict because of your reply 173.72.3.91 (talk) 15:33, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also see Russo-Japanese War Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878) Russo-Georgian War, this is not an unusual styling. Slatersteven (talk) 15:29, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
but most news websites now like CNN style this as the Russia Ukraine war 173.72.3.91 (talk) 15:35, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do they? I see a lot of results for "Ukraine Russia war" and our current title (such as nato [[3]]). Slatersteven (talk) 15:42, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.hrw.org/tag/russia-ukraine-war human rights watch shows russia ukraine war 173.72.3.91 (talk) 15:46, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
and the new york times also calls it russia ukraine war along with lot of other websites
https://www.nytimes.com/news-event/ukraine-russia 173.72.3.91 (talk) 15:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
oppose this is a standard WP:NCWWW title —blindlynx 19:57, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sources (that seem okay)

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Ilya Ponomarev, (went against, or ) opposed several of Putin's top projects in Russian politics, including voting against the occupation of Crimea in 2014. He went into exile in Ukraine in 2016.--Source,

https://yle.fi/a/74-20010573 , 2014-08-01 @12.37.--Anyone, or i, can add text. Good luck! 80.67.37.2 (talk) 11:03, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am unsure this is a good source,. Slatersteven (talk) 11:06, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that sounds about right. Here is another source saying the same thing. Meduza is a Russian-language media based in Latvia, they are usually reliable. Alaexis¿question? 19:20, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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