Talk:Capsicum pubescens

You say tomato, I say locoto

Erm- isn't this a Locoto- not Rocoto.

It seems that both forms are in use: [1]. The jar of sauce I have definitely says Rocoto. --Iustinus 18:12, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Rocoto is the name used in Peru for this pepper. Locoto is the name used in Bolivia. It is the same pepper, and very similar to manzano chiles of Mexico.

Rocoto pepper gets almost one hundred times the google results of locoto pepper, so is probably a better primary name to use in the article. --Kaz 19:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I have clarified (Quechua vs Aymara) as to why the name (spelling) varies in Peru/Bolivia. HOWEVER...This rocoto entry is horrificly "un-cited" in my opinion. Lots of well-intentioned, lovingly made claims, but not a lot of sourcing!

I will wait some time before hitting it hard in "edit/cleaning" to see based on my edits today how large the interested/active rocoto community is so we can reach consensus in this wonderful spicy gift pre-posting, rather than fight about "details" with unneccesarry undo/redos.

Among other things (for example) are assertions that Rocoto Relleno is a "South American" dish. My decade of eating it tells me its not! To me, it is at BEST Andean, and probably just Peruvian/Bolivian. Furthermore, the assertion that "most" rocoto goes to Ceviche (although in my opinion it make the BEST ceviche) seems a significant (and at least unsubstantiated) stretch. Not ready to formall claim this, but much like the bell pepper, I BELIEVE (but dont know) that red is the mature color of rocoto having statred out green. not at all sure about yellow/orange.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by GrinchPeru (talk • contribs) 02:06, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I am (trying!!) to add my signature via the 4 tildes method to my above post, and am clarifying my grammar etc. GrinchPeru (talk) 20:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC) (hope this works!)

since no one has fixed this issue I am going to go ahead and tag the article rather that put a bunch of in there. I agree that this is a very informative article which is what I was hoping for when I read it but I would like to see some of the language cleaned up and ref's added -Sykko-(talk to me) 17:29, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

SEPT 2010 --- After a long absence I made a couple of (hopefully) non-controversial "changes," today mainly begining to add some citations (more to come!) and touching on the "size does matter" issue related to Bolivia & Peru varieties. HOWEVER: Awaiting to see if there are any quick observations from you folks, I have not YET made changes in some things that might be more controversial, or in fact "errors of commision" of my own doing if I "fix" them! To Wit:

- a) in the "System" header (whatever THAT means!) the following sentence appears and I simply dont know if the "Art." at the end is a orphaned typo or some scientific way of citation. "It follows the assumption that the Bolivian Capsicum pubescens, both biologically and geographically closer to the original Capsicum pubescens lie elsewhere than domesticated plants of Art. "

- b) The following makes no sense TO ME, and furthermore seems to imply that rocoto are both "multi-colored" (true) and only "red" (untrue): "With the exception of the large and variable in color fruits of Capsicum pubescens have all kinds of small, colored red, spherical fruit."

- c) Manzana vs Rocoto: WOW what vivid proof that a picture is worth 1000 words - I have never seen any "proof" that the Rocoto is found in Central America (and would have removed the claim), but based on the FASCINATING foto of Manzana offered by our spicy friend "Piano non troppo" in March 2010 showing something availible in North America (namely Mexico) that at a minimum is VISUALLY very similar in form (though a color COMBO I have not found in Peru) furthermore Piano non troppo´s example is a size similar to the Rocoto de Monte grown here in Peru. So: If this South American fruit has traveled/evolved to North America from South America, it does not seem unreasonable that some cousins might have dropped off in Central America along the way.

- d) Another sentence that seems confusing TO ME, and at least is a good candidate for a citation is the apparent claim taht non-domesticated versions are extinct. " Although no wild form has been found and there are only semi-wild or cultivated plants, it is assumed that Capsicum pubescens is a separate species. Through the long domestication by human selection and thus were the fruits of the plants over time is larger, the wild form is true even be extinct."

Thoughts? (also: please forgive multiple "corrective" self-posts as I learn proper symbols etc!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by GrinchPeru (talk • contribs) 20:55, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Copyright violation

The text I just removed is a close paraphrase of a section in "Red Hot Peppers". (Down to the use of Ruiz & Pavon). It's so close, I had to check the book to make sure it wasn't word-for-word.

Ironically, the clue to the above discussion about names is in a sentence that was not copied from the book: "There are many varieties of C. pubescens ... but they do not have individual names".

Nice that someone is checking copyrights and copied text. Thanks for that. But would you mind giving a bit more information about the book? "Red Hot Peppers" is a very widely use name, so it's difficult to figure out exactly what you mean.

Also, a search on Google for the beginning of the text you removed, comes up with 1640 results, as of today (). I didn't check closely, but at least a few of them has the addition "with yellow spots" that I added (and I'm sure is not part of the original copyrighted text), but this in itself only proves that the text was copied from Wikipedia to many other places. Luca (talk) 18:51, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Before suspecting that Wiki used a different name for the pepper article, I just spent an hour writing a draft of an article called "Manzana". I have three sources hardcopy, and it was quite interesting trying to reconcile them -- it's obvious that at least two very different plants are called "Manzana". One grows upright like a shrub or small tree, the other is a vine. One is described as mildly hot to very hot, the other is described as hotter than habanero.

Shall I put my version in a sandbox where we can all hammer on it? Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 15:22, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Not sure a total rewrite is the way to go. What about adding parts of your article to the current article? Anyway, sandboxing it somewhere for review would certainly not hurt ;) Luca (talk) 18:51, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

There are (at least) two different plants, still C. pubescens. But not all C. pubescens are called rocoto.

I wrote an article "Manzana", because I walked into my local Mexican grocer yesterday, picked them off the shelf, walked up to the counter, and said "What are these?" She said "manzanas".

I got them home, looked them up in "The Great Chile Book". Sure enough, there they were. Oh, but wait, they're also called six other things. Then I got out two other chili reference books. Trouble. What names *aren't* these chilis called? In Costa Rica, apparently, they're called jalapeños -- why? Because all hot peppers in Costa Rica are called jalapeños. Trouble. We've got a problem here with fuzzy, overlapping word meanings.

The reason the Wiki article text jumped out at me as copyright infringement is that it makes many of the same points, even using the same words, as "Red Hot Peppers" by Jean Andrews (Macmillan Publishing). It was published 18 years ago, so possibly the Internet versions are all taken from her original. At any rate, that could be "fixed" by selectively citing her.

What seems to be needed ... Careful citing of sources, with pictures where possible, demonstrating the range of C. pubescens appearance, as well as common names applied to each appearance. That may not be entirely successful, but at least the article can make it clear that there are ambiguities, and where there are ambiguities. Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 20:58, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

As a Southamerican Chef I can tell you that some of the facts in you article are not accurate. The Rotoco o Locoto (yes you can use the Peruvian name or the Bolivian) is not in any way similar to the Mexican Chile Manzano ( no Manzana). The South American Rocoto/Locoto is very spice but wirh a lots os flavor with differ with the Mexican Chile Manzano that, like most of the mexican chiles, is only irritant with out any flavor at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.149.160.203 (talk) 14:28, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

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New/modified paragraph

Capsicum pubescens is a plant of the family Capsicum (pepper). It differs from other Capsicum species in its ability to reach an advanced age and in its distinctive morphological traits. The species name, pubescens, refers to the hairy leaves of this pepper. The hairiness of the leaves, along with the black seeds, make Capsicum pubescens distinguishable from other Capsicum species. As roots lignify quickly, they are sometimes called tree chili. Capsicum pubescens can reach heights of up to 12 m and produces pungent fruits with yellow, orange, red or brown colour. This species is found primarily in Central and South America, and is known only in cultivation. It is consumed fresh, paste, dried, or ground. It is known in Peru and Ecuador as rocoto (Quechua, rukutu, ruqutu'), locoto in Bolivia and Argentina (Aymara, luqutu) and as the manzano pepper in Mexico which means 'apple' for its apple-shaped fruit. Of all the domesticated species in the family Capsicum, this is the least widespread and genetically furthest away from all others. It is reproductively isolated from other species of the genus Capsicum. A notable feature of this species is its ability to withstand cooler temperatures than other cultivated pepper plants, although it cannot withstand frost.

Origin and Distribution

Capsicum pubescens is native to Bolivia, Peru and Ecuador and dates back to pre-Incan times. Traces of its presence have been found in the Guitarrero Caves. The existence of Capsicum pubescens was documented by ancient Peruvians of the Paracas, Nazca, Moche, and Chimu cultures, through textiles, ceramics, and domestic remains. Capsicum pubescens is likely to belong to the oldest domesticated plants in the Americas, its domestication dating back to 6000 BC. Capsicum pubescens is believed to have evolved from other, more primitive wild Capsicum species occurring in the same area. Of all the domesticated species of peppers, this is the least widespread and genetically furthest away from all others. It is reproductively isolated from other species of the genus Capsicum and forms a distinct genetic lineage. In the early 1900's Capsicum pubescens was introduced to Indonesia where it is now grown along other Capsicum species. The routes of introductions remain unclear, as Capsicum pubescens is found on multiple Indonesian islands. A white flower mutant of Capsicum pubescens is widely distributed in West and Central Java, which differentiates it from the normally purple flowering plants.

Capsicum pubescens is only found on very limited acreage outside of Central America. It is found in cultivation primarily in Bolivia and Peru where it likely originated. Nowadays, it is found from Mexico to Peru as well as in Indonesia. The plants are usually grown at small scale in courtyards and family gardens and only surpluses reach markets.

Given its cold tolerance, Capsicum pubescens grows at higher elevations than other species, and cannot survive the tropical heat in the lowlands. However, Capsicum pubescens is not frost-tolerant and requires a long vegetation period of about 9 months. These climate requirements are the main challanges for introducing it to other locations. Alongside the climatic difficulties, the European cuisine lacks in uses for Capsicum pubescens fruits, why the plant has not established in Europe. Nevertheless, the interest in Capsicum pubescens is rising among hobby-breeders.

--Schmanue (talk) 14:13, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

New Paragraph

Uses

Food properties

The fruit of Capsicum pubescens are a versatile food of the south american cuisine. The flesh is thicker than that of other chilis and is closer to the consistency of bell peppers. Additionally, the fruit can reach the sizes of bell peppers. However, the level of spice is comparable to other common known chilis. 50'000 to 250'000 Scoville Heat Units (SHU) on the Scoville scale have been recorded.

Fresh uses

The seeds and the white membranes, which contain most of the spice, are cut out. It is advised to wear gloves when handling Capsicum pubescens. To reduce the spiciness the fruit can be boiled.

Rocoto relleno is a popular dish in Arequipa, a city in the Andes of Peru. The hollowed out and boiled rocotos are filled up with a mixture of ground beef, onions, garlic and spices. It is topped off with a piece of cheese and baked in the oven.

The fruit of the Capsicum pubescens are also used as additions to other meals. Chili paste is made by mixing the chilis with oil. Chili cream is made by mixing rocoto chili with fresh cheese. Aji de Huacatay is a green sauce which contains green rocoto chilis and is served typically with potatoes. Additionally, rocoto are used for fresh salsas.

Processed uses

Drying rocotos is a possible way of conservation. Due to the thick flesh and the high moisture content drying just with sunlight is not as effective as with other species of Capsicum. To tackle this problem, a project in Peru has worked with a drying tunnel invented by the University of Hohenheim. The drying tunnel has a closed ventilation system powered by solar energy. This allows for a better temperature regulation and decreases risk of contamination compared to drying in the open. In this closed drying tunnel 80 kilogram of fresh rocoto result in 6.4 kilogram of dried rocoto.

Hot Sauce is another way of conservation. They are a common product in online hot sauce selling websites. Tabasco sauce had a limited edition of Tabasco Rocoto Pepper Sauce in 2019.

--JenxTheStudent (talk) 15:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

References