Talk:Social novel

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Social novel article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Novels Top‑importance

	Novels portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Novels, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to novels, novellas, novelettes and short stories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the general Project discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.NovelsWikipedia:WikiProject NovelsTemplate:WikiProject Novelsnovel articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Children's literature Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Children's literature, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Children's literature on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Children's literatureWikipedia:WikiProject Children's literatureTemplate:WikiProject Children's literaturechildren and young adult literature articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tasks you can do:

Here are some open tasks for WikiProject Children's literature, an attempt to create and standardize articles related to children's literature. Feel free to help with any of the following tasks.

Add {{Portal|Children's literature}} to the See also section of related articles.
Tag the talk pages of related articles with {{WikiProject Children's literature}}
Join WikiProject Children's literature and list yourself as a Participant in the project.
Cleanup: A cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category, the tool's wiki page and the index of WikiProjects.
Deletion discussions: listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Literature
Notability: Articles with notability concerns, listed at WikiProject Notability
Rate the Unassessed articles in the Children's literature WikiProject.
References: Add references to Unreferenced BLPs.
Requested articles: Create a requested article on literature
Stubs: Improve a stub-class article

edit

Literature High‑importance

	Literature portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Literature, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Literature on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LiteratureWikipedia:WikiProject LiteratureTemplate:WikiProject LiteratureLiterature articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

18th century origins?

What are the 18th century works alluded to here? I thought that the 1840s and 1850s marked the beginnings of this sub-genre?Rwood128 (talk) 00:29, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Re merging various articles

There are several articles that cover similar territory to this one: Problem novel; Social protest novel; and Industrial novel. I suggest that they should be merged with this article. Any comments? Rwood128 (talk) 11:27, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Social protest novel Talk page

Merging with Social novel article?

This article and the Social novel cover similar territory: Should they be combined? Rwood128 (talk) 11:18, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Dickens and social protest

The discussion of Dickens needs revision: his novels are full of biting satire of British society, even if his public politics may not have been radical. A fuller, more complete discussion, including Orwell's views, is needed.Rwood128 (talk) 23:17, 15 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Blind Owl by Sadegh Hedayat

I visited the article pages for both author and novel, but it isn't at all clear from them why the work is a social novel. Perhaps it could be discussed within the article: what is it protesting against? and when was it actually written? Rwood128 (talk) 18:26, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Problem novel Talk page following merging

Merge

These two articles appear to talk about two difference things but use the same (or very similar) term. My belief is that this should be one article that deals with the ideas comprehensively. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 10:34, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - agree with nom --Orange Mike 16:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

First Problem Novel to Win the Newbery Medal?

In Welcome to Lizard Motel by Barbara Feinberg, Bridge to Terabithia is classified as a problem novel, and it won the Newbery Medal five years before Dicey's Song. AlanJM (talk) 07:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Needs Work

This article really did not help me to understand what a problem novel is, is supposed to be or why it would be considered a positive or negative lable. 24.56.242.121 (talk) 16:26, 5 December 2008 (UTC)amyanda2000[reply]

Wrong definition

The definition given here does not agree with the definition given in two reputable dictionaries of literary terms or the Encyclopaedia Britannica online, which has: "social problem novel, also called problem novel or social novel, work of fiction in which a prevailing social problem, such as gender, race, or class prejudice, is dramatized through its effect on the characters of a novel." Rwood128 (talk) 22:50, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Could be we've got two sub-sections of the publishing and literary world which use the same term for two different things. If so, we need to create two separate articles and disambiguate. --Orange Mike | Talk 05:56, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've done a little more research and it seems that the term is possibly correct, but that users discussing young adult literature seem to be ignoring that it has a history, and behave as if it is a separate genre of young adult literature. However, the Young-adult fiction page defines it differently, that is as a coming of age novel or bildungsroman. My first suggestion would be to change the title of the article to "Problem novels in young adult fiction" or, alternatively have an introductory section that gives the historical context, followed by a sub-heading "Young adult problem novels". But it would be better to close this article and transfer it to the Young-adult fiction page, which looks like it needs developing. There is also the fact that it appears, from my cursory reading, that such novels create problems for parents and school authorities, and that this sometimes influences how the term is used. Rwood128 (talk) 16:59, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As re-written, this article now mostly duplicates the subject matter, if not the content, of social novel!!!! We need to discuss a potential merger. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There may be even more pages that cover similar, if not identical, territory. Did you realise that there's also a Problem fiction page and a Social problem novel page? I created numerous 'See also' links yesterday which underline this. Rwood128 (talk) 21:18, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/sandbox/2005/06/battle_of_the_books.html might be a way of expanding the YA aspect. It has links to a few other sources. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:28, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merging and deleting articles?

I have suggested the merging of the Problem novel and Problem fiction article on the Talk page of Problem fiction. May I also suggest that this page, and the Social novel page, merge with the Social problem novel. But my impression is that such changes are slow to achieve.Rwood128 (talk) 13:56, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In fact the Social problem novel does not have a page and you are redirected to the Social novel, so I'd suggest that it should be the main page. Rwood128 (talk) 13:56, 13 November 2012 (UTC)====Talk page[reply]

Talk page from Problem fiction

Deletion of this article*

There is also a Problem novel page and it is more developed than this one. In addition there are other similar pages such as the Social problem novel page. I therefore suggest that this page be merged with the Problem novel page and a disambiguation connection established. Later, perhaps, further mergers can be made. Rwood128 (talk) 15:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

i.e, Problem fiction.

Talk page for Industrial novel after merging

Merge with Social novel?

This article covers the same territory as the Social novel, so that they should be perhaps be merged. Any comment? Rwood128 (talk) 11:31, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

On further thought perhaps this article should be merged with that for Proletarian literature, rather than that for the Social novel; not all working-class, or industrial novels are necessarily social novels, because some simply portraying working class life. On the other hand the current content is duplicated on the Social novel page and the only difference is in the bibliography. Does anyone have any views on this? Rwood128 (talk) 17:21, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Unless there's objection I will shortly merge this article with that for the Social novel. Re the previous comment, it is probably best to deal with working-class novels, that just portray working-class life, within Proletarian literature, which now has less of a political emphasis than before. Rwood128 (talk) 15:47, 4 May 2013 (UTC) Merge completed Rwood128 (talk) 21:33, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Social novel/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

The writer of this page does an effective job of illustrating the genre of Social Novels and provides justification as to why a description should be on Wikipedia. The importance of this genre is drawn from connections made between Social Novels and well-known authors such as Charles Dickens and Leo Tolstoy. The language of this article is slightly verbose and contained some grammar and syntax errors. I made some edits to correct these mistakes and make the article easier to understand. The writer did an effective job of including internal links, external links, and a good selection of works for further reading. While no image is provided, I agree with the choice to exclude one because it would be difficult to exhibit the entire genre with just one picture. Despite the need for some editing, this article was well done and a necessary addition to Wikipedia.

Last edited at 21:09, 5 April 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 06:25, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Other Social Novels

Should Cry the Beloved Country by Alan Paton be added to the list? Pete unseth (talk) 22:43, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pete unseth, looks like it. I found this in the article on the novel: "Cry, the Beloved Country is a social protest against the structures of the society that would later give rise to apartheid"(Main themes). Rwood128 (talk) 11:51, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Spark 1 Social Justice and Child Lit

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2022 and 6 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gary200012 (article contribs).