Talk:Petr Fiala

Fiala was sworn in, is PM now

I don't understand: I saw in the edit space that we're not supposed to drop "designate" from the infobox until the cabinet is sworn in, but the "assuming office" date is November 28th, yesterday (even in Czech Rep.) President Zeman has sworn Fiala in as PM, therefore, shouldn't he not be "designate" anymore, but the current PM? --Inspector Semenych (talk) 18:18, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I understand that it might (and is) very confusing to some. Article 62(a) of the Constitution of the Czech Republic states that the President "appoints and recalls the Prime Minister and other members of the government and accepts their resignations, recalls the government and accepts its resignation;" which has been the case now - Petr Fiala has been appointed Prime Minister.

However, Article 62 paragraph d) establishes that the President "shall entrust the government whose resignation he has accepted, or which he has recalled, with the temporary performance of its duties until a new government is appointed;" and this is the split and common misunderstanding that we are currently dealing with. While the new Prime Minister has been named, the old administration of Andrej Babiš is still technically, factually and legally in power, carrying out the full force of the the executive branch of the government because the President has not dismissed it yet. Instead, he tasked the Babiš administration with the temporary duties until Fiala's cabinet is sworn in in accordance with the Article 62(d). The President will likely appoint Fiala's administration in the middle of December 2021. In the meantime, Fiala has no executive power but enjoys the privileges having access to the government offices, security detail and classified briefings, among others. The President can technically appoint the new PM and his full cabinet and dismiss the old one on the same day but that hasn't been the constitutional tradition in the Czech Republic for whatever reason. By the way that is the reason why the dates of incumbencies don't end and begin with one day on Wikipedia and elsewhere.

The Czech Constitution and the tradition simply allow this procedure to take place and some people can't wrap their head around it because it is much more difficult than in other countries. At this time, Czechia has two Prime Ministers and I guess it would have been much easier if the powerless Prime Minister was known as the Prime Minister-elect because it is much more familiar term but instead Czechs have come up with the Prime Minister-designate. The date is November 28th because once he receives his cabinet and takes over the executive government that is de jure his date of appointment. Wikipedia's infobox doesn't really allow us any other way how to state it and since I believe Wikipedia must be first factual we simply can not allow Petr Fiala or any other Prime Minister to possess the "incumbent Prime Minister" title until he is actually in power.

I think we should start thinking about establishing a dedicated page to the Prime Minister-designate of the Czech Republic - something similar to President-elect of the United States. --Itsyoungrapper (talk) 05:35, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

I don't want to get involved in this edit war over a minor issue, but just to say that any information about this process (which I agree seems needed) can/should be added to the page Prime Minister of the Czech Republic, which is currently very short. Jdcooper (talk) 20:55, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed explanation: I think this appointment mechanism needs to be better explained, either in the Prime Minister of the Czech Republic article or in a section in the article Politics of the Czech Republic. I'd be willing to help with this.--Inspector Semenych (talk) 21:29, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Government track record

So, since you want to discuss this - @Itsyoungrapper why do you keep deleting the update? The claim that it's too long simply isn't true - for reference, check other articles on prime ministers, like Rishi Sunak (or even Andrej Babiš, Fiala's predecessor). Additionally, if the leading paragraphs are too long according to you, surely the thing to erase would be all the fluff about previous careers - it's the premiership that's the most important part of Fiala's biography, not to mention the text uses no sources for its claims, making it much less useful as an accurate source.

The poor English claim, okay, there might be a mistake or two, but if you find language-based errors on Wikipedia, surely that's a case for you correcting them, not removing the text. It's not like my English in unintelligible, I make my living as a translator, for God's sake.

And finally, the bias claim - I have to admit this one kind of got to me. I literally made the top paragraphs more factual by mentioning all aspects of Fiala's government. The old version talks only of foreign policy, to the point it contains information of little-to-no value (like saying Fiala supports Israel over Hamas - Czech Republic doesn't partake in the conflict and doesn't actually support Israel beyond "expressing" support, doesn't send help, didn't send any military aid, so surely that's much less important/relevant than mentioning the fact that under Fiala, the economy has seen continual recession at a time when other countries in the same position report growth and economic recovery), and thus contains serious omission bias. By focusing on one area, in this case foreign policy, the description fails to convey the whole image. By mentioning the economic policies and by actively comparing Czech Republic under Fiala to other European states in the same period, the image is much more complete. Avoiding talking about the inflation, the recession, the growing debt and the lackluster economic performance, along with low approval, the description works and a brief overview of Fiala's government. When you omit all the "nasty" parts, you deliberately portray the administration as more successful than it is - it's like writing Donald Trump's biography and forgetting to mention the Capitol riot. Using your logic, the leading paragraphs of Fiala's predecessor Babiš's page thus shouldn't include all the stuff about his corruption cases and divisive image, but only talk about his dealings with the EU, close relationship with French president Macron and his visit to the US. I'm sure you'd recognise just how ridiculous and biased that would be. Please, apply the same logic here - let's keep the article an objective source of information, and not a tool in a propaganda war between two sides. Adamroc (talk) 03:35, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Adamroc: the problem wasn't the content, but the tone and location. That paragraph was written in quite a polemic style, also contained information that didn't appear in the main body of the text (against article policy). The absence of references for the rest of the lead, that you mention, shouldn't be a problem for that reason (should be cited lower down). I've rewritten that paragraph a bit and put in the main body, with a summary in the lead, which I think has fixed all those problems. Take a look and see what you think. Jdcooper (talk) 01:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi, perfect, I agree your version is better for summary than mine (sorry, I have a tendency to "overwrite"). Also, your text sounds, I admit, less confrontational than mine - even though it's saying the same information, I admit that when I see what you wrote, my text could have been seen as somewhat attacking Fiala or his government, which absolutely wasn't my goal, I simply wanted to make the leading paragraphs more objective.

If I were to pick up on anything, I'd say perhaps mention that Fiala's approval rating is still at a record low, as one could get the impression the low approval is a thing of the past from the text, but that's basically nitpicking on my part. Your version pretty much solves all the issues I had with the old article (as well as everything I believe @Itsyoungrapper took issue with in my version). Love your work on this, many thanks! Adamroc (talk) 02:24, 19 February 2024 (UTC)