Talk:Kingdom of Norway (872–1397)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): TylerBennettasu. Peer reviewers: TylerBennettasu.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

"Empire"?

This seems a highly inaccurate term, and a very recent change to the article. What happened? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.191.203.39 (talk) 02:53, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

This article is very politically motivated, and the English is poor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.63.165.155 (talk) 06:45, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

How is it inaccurate? Looking at the definition of an empire, and reading this article, I see no reason it can't be referred to as a very early form of a colonial and territorial empire. Although it is very usual for an empire to be larger than a kingdom, there is no rule for such and it has no place in its definition. That being said, I can see the concern of this being an irrationally patriotic page, rather than one focusing on providing unbiased factual information of a country's past. Worth looking into and, if found necessary, change accordingly! --Jorsalfarer (talk) 15:52, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Hardly an empire

This article has until now passed undetected under my radar. As a Norwegian, I am ashamed to see such a dubious version of Norwegian history in Wikipedia. It needs a thorough overhaul to reach a level of quality that corresponds to Wikipedia's requirements. It is excessively biased in a nationalistic or even chauvinistic direction. First and foremost it needs to be moved – "Norwegian Empire" is an appellation that no recognized historian would venture to apply. With a lot of help from informed friends it might become a useful addition to the category History of Norway, but only under another title. Something like "Norwegian expansion during the Middle Ages"? Lars Roede (talk) 15:20, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Boldly done. I have never seen a serious historian refer to Norway as an "empire", even when discussing the period of its largest area of influence. Thomas.W ^talk 15:44, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

The worst part of it is that someone has added internal links to the "Norwegian empire" on hundreds of other articles, ranging from Alexander the Great and Ancient Egypt to every article we have about historical empires... My bad, it had been added to a couple of navigation templates, including Template:Empires. Thomas.W ^talk 15:56, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello, I am the one who titled this article. I don't have control over what has been written on it since then, so I don't know what improvements can be made to it. As for the term "Norwegian Empire", it is a translation of the Norwegian term "Norgesveldet" / "Noregsveldet", which is always used separate from the Norwegian Kingdom to describe the early colonial and political power Norway was at the time. I cannot think of any other English term than "empire", and I think it is far more fitting than the lackluster sentence of a title it has now. That being said, if the word has too much of a nationalist connotation (and I am not a nationalist myself) I have no problem with the title being changed, as long as it works as a translation of aforementioned Norwegian term, which is what this article was meant to be in the first place. --Jorsalfarer (talk) 23:56, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

@Jorsalfarer: "Norwegian Empire" is not a correct translation of "Norgesveldet" (even though Google Translate might suggest so). "Velde/välde" was and sometimes still is used for not only Norway but also the other early Scandinavian political entities, Denmark and Sweden ("Sveaväldet"), but noone ever translates those terms as the Danish and Swedish Empires (Swedish Empire is about a later period in history, when Sweden was one of the military great powers of Europe, and not "Sveaväldet"). The article is also full of dubious claims like "The Norwegians are credited for the only written sources of Norse religion and the Icelandic Sagas, written in Old West Norse, the main language of medieval Norway.". The Icelandic sagas weren't written by Norwegians but by Icelandic writers (who didn't see themselves as Norwegians, and weren't seen as Norwegians by people in other countries either), and "Old West Norse" was the western dialect of a common Scandinavian language, Old Norse, that was spoken by people all over Scandinavia and in Scandinavian settlements from Greenland to Russia and what is now the Ukraine (Kievan Rus'), not a separate language comparable to the much later Norwegian language. Thomas.W ^talk 09:41, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Thomas W here.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 10:42, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

I will still encourage a translation to be made, if it is possible. I have nothing to comment on the rest, dubious claims should be deleted and replaced with better information like any other Wikipedia page. As for the Norwegian versus Icelandic adjectives, Icelandic as a culture was not very distinct from that of the original settlers, and the Norwegian culture at the time, even the language was almost identical. Many Icelanders believed themselves to be Norwegian due to their ancestry, while many others did not feel connected to Norway in the slightest. It is not a debate that can be resolved in absolute "they did" and "they did not"s. If you need an example of a saga writer who considered himself, and all Icelanders, to be Norwegian, there's the all time favourite Snorri Sturluson. --Jorsalfarer (talk) 18:01, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

A Norwegian colony in Canada?

This article, which reads like a Norwegian ultra-nationalist's wet dream, is in desperate need of a major cleanup, both in order to make it encyclopaedic and in order to get it in touch with reality. The claim that Norway had a colony in Canada/Northamerica is nothing short of ridiculous, considering that it was shortlived, was an own initiative by a small group of people living in Iceland/Greenland who didn't see themselves as Norwegians, and weren't seen by contemporaries in other places as Norwegians (and in many/most cases had moved to Iceland, which was self-ruling, in order to get away from areas controlled by Norway...), was never in any way, shape or form controlled by Norway, and was never claimed by Norway during the short existence of the settlement/s. Just to give one example, but there are many other claims in the article that have equally little to do with reality. - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 10:35, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

I agree with you about this article being a mess. The thing is that it's a synthesis of scraps from other articles (alot of viking expansion stuff and lists) mashed all together to pose as an article upon an imperial state. I just think the article needs to be redone from scratch, and derived solely from reliable sources that actually concern the Noregsveldet.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 00:55, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Norgesveldet

This article should be turned into a redirect to Hereditary Kingdom of Norway since that's what it according to the lead of the article is supposed to be about, with the lead stating that it's about "Norgesveldet" (see corresponding article on the Norwegian Wikipedia: no:Norgesveldet), which in turn is the same as the "Hereditary Kingdom of Norway", instead of a bunch of fantasy stuff. The article on the Norwegian Wikipedia is recommended reading if you understand Norwegian/Scandinavian (if you don't, try Google Translate), since it makes none of the fantastic claims that this article has made, and to a certain extent still makes, showing that the "alternative reality"-people haven't had a chance to make their fantasy edits there, and instead have decided to descend on en-WP. - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 20:59, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Old Norse Name

The Old Norse Name for the Old Kingdom of Norway in the languages section seems to be Konungsriki Nuriki. The first part means King's realm, but what is a Nuriki? It doesn't seem to be a word. SAIYAN48 (talk) 16:26, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Raven Banner as flag ...?

Hi, why is the raven banner included as a flag? According to the raven banner article, no king of Norway used it a coat of arms. Haardraade may have used it as a battle standard, but that is not the same thing. T 85.166.160.249 (talk) 03:47, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

• I agree, it makes no sense to present it as a Norwegian flag. It was common across the Norse world and was not a national flag. I've removed it. Hairy Dude (talk) 17:05, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Messed it up

Hi, I saw a weird mistake where part of the info box was on the main page but then I ended up just breaking the info box, can someone a little more knowledgeable fix it? thanks Boris J. Cornelius (talk) 17:19, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Norwegian control of Anglesey

The Norwegians only very briefly had influence on Anglesey, from around 1098-1102. By 1262 it was definitely not in any way a Norwegian possession. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KingMoogoe (talk • contribs) 21:42, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Where does it say otherwise? TylerBurden (talk) 20:36, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Very hard to understand whats going on in this article

This article really needs a clean up of the english and probably structure as well. I cannot judge the veracity of the claims as i have no prior knowledge of the topic but somehow it made me very doubtful of its claims. Feels like a high school assignment made on the last minute. 213.100.216.167 (talk) 06:27, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Name change

I have seen multiple english sources refering to the Kingdom of Norway (872-1397) as the Norwegian name “Norgesveldet” and think it should be moved to such as there isn’t any good term for “veld” other than “empire” which in my opinion would also be appropriate. It does fit the definition given by Oxford languages “ an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state.” with the Kingdom of the Isles, Earldom of Orkney and Icelandic Commonwealth being ruled by the Norwegian monarch. GusGusBrus (talk) 08:54, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Can you link to some of the sources? TylerBurden (talk) 16:43, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Here is some examples of the Norwegian name «Norgesveldet» being used in english sources: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%252C5&q=%E2%80%9CNorgesveldet%E2%80%9D&btnG=

and here is an example for it being mentioned and refered to as an empire (page 69): https://books.google.no/books?id=aOJ5DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA69&dq=Norwegian+empire&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwip-qPZrvGGAxX3PxAIHQ6JCooQ6AF6BAgKEAM#v=onepage&q=Norwegian%20empire&f=false GusGusBrus (talk) 17:34, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't be opposed to moving the article to “Norgesveldet”, I always found the title of this article rather strange. TylerBurden (talk) 18:28, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I mean you could look at the term the same way as the "Reconquista". Should i move it or should we wait for more input? GusGusBrus (talk) 22:16, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Maybe wait a day or two just in case someone has objections, if none show up then go for it. TylerBurden (talk) 18:29, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I tried moving it but i cant because "Norgesveldet" already redirects here GusGusBrus (talk) 11:48, 28 June 2024 (UTC)