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@Zuck28: Giving this article a title that includes the word "murder" suggests that Wikipedia holds a particular point of view about the events described in this. Wikipedia articles should have neutral titles, and in this case, since suspects have been arrested and charged, the guideline WP:BLPCRIME requires that Wikipedia assume those charged are considered innocent until convicted of the crime(s) they are alleged to have committed. While it is a fact the victims were killed violently, whether this amounts to murder, or not, is still for the courts to decide. Wikipedia should not preemptively pass judgement on this case bu labelling it a crime without supporting evidence that proves this beyond reasonable doubt. Having a conviction in this case would meet that standard of proof. I note that several of the cited sources headline their articles with the term "murder case". However, upon reading these sources, it becomes clear to me that the headlines are referring to the police case that murder was committed, not simply the killings of the two victims. While news reporter have the luxury of holding and expressing an opinion, that is not the case with Wikipedia, which needs to provide a balanced and neutral article on this topic. Having an appropriately neutral title is one step in that process, and the name "Bhiwani killings" used by one of the cited sources would seem suitable to me. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 22:47, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your concerns and have no objections.
However I noticed that this was a clearly a murder case as proved in police reports, evidence, and post-mortem reports.
It’s not yet clear if the accused were convicted or not, but almost every media portal mentioned it as “Double Murder” “Bhiwani Murders or Killings” or “Nasir-Junaid murder” according to this I don’t believe this title is offensive.
@Zuck28: This is not a matter of offensiveness. It is a matter of evidence in a court of law, and the rights of the defendants to be presumed innocent until convicted. According to one article, the police have laid charges against one defendant under a dozen different sections of the Indian Penal Code. Only one of these is for murder. Until the court convicts the defendants, Wikipedia policy means Wikipedia articles cannot say these killings were murder, despite what all the media sources claiming this occurred. It is the court system that decides if it was murder, not the news media or police. Also, the wheels of the justice system turn slowly in India, so this case may still be awaiting trial. Also, there is always the possibility the court finds this was not murder, but manslaughter. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 21:50, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The title you suggested “Bhiwani Killings” may be confusing because there are multiple stances for which this term was used in past. Can you suggest any other better titles?
If the only concern is for the word ‘murder’ we can replace the title as ‘Killing of Nasir-Junaid’ or “Nasir-Junaid Murder case”.
@Zuck28: The naming conventions for events suggest using "when", "where" and "what" in titles, which would produce "2023 Bhiwani killings". I thinks any title that contains the victims names needs to be plural and include the word "and" to make it clear that two people were killed. So the title starting "Killing(s) of ..." would be "Killings of Nasir and Junaid" to make grammatical sense. As I have mentioned previously, using the title "murder case" is not a neutral title, and the word "case" also implies Wikipedia is only dealing with the court case and minimises the fact that two people were killed in this violence. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 19:06, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Page moved. I have also reworded the article to work in the nw title and reduce WP:BLPCRIME issues by making the first sentence about the discovery of the victims bodies. and attributed the alleged crimes committed by cow vigilantes to the police, not Wikipedia. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 19:32, 31 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
