Talk:May-December relationship

Created as per Wikipedia:Requested articles/Social sciences‎--Coin945 (talk) 05:24, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Info not related to article anymore

It has come to my attention that the term has been contemporised in modern times and has been used outside the narrow definition that it originally had. All the info that uses the contemporised meaning of the term has now been removed and moved here:

The issue was explored in depth in a very successful BBC comedy series, May to December. May-December relationships became common in Audrey Hepburn's movies. "In nearly half of her films, her romantic partners were more than 20 years her senior". "On a February 1995 Jenny Jones Show program about May-December relationships, the producers arranged for a nineteen- year-old black woman go on a date with a forty-six-year-old white man so as to stretch the boundaries of the topic to include interracial dating." Dr Padian says that "May-December relationships with older women do occur, but these often involve condoms because the older women demand them." In the book "Health issues confronting minority men who have sex with men", Sana Loue writes "May–December relationships seem to provide instant recognition and affirmation by peers, with few detractors among the broader LGBT community. Older men have to be willing to be mentors and not sexual partners, regardless of their attraction" In the work "Seeking Arrangement" Brandon Wade writes "Of all May/December relationships...a mentorship is the one least likely to last: Sugar Baby eventually outgrows Daddy, and even rebels against his teachings as a form of manipulation. Their break-up is likely to be stormy." Lisa Hayes, in her book "How to Escape from Relationship Hell" says that "most studies conclude that [May-December relationships where the man is older are] a more successful match". She attributes this to maturity levels. The book "Slumming" by Chad C. Heap says that "the “anything goes” atmosphere of [the] districts [of New York and Chicago] provided effective cover for the May-December relationships that blossomed among middle- and upper-class women and men during the cabaret era." Gerald A. Larue writes in his book "Sex and the Bible", "May-December relationships have a low incidence of separation and divorce. It seems as though there is a very individualistic investment of personalities in such a relationship that separates it from marriages of people in the same age." Charles Winick explains in his book "Desexualization in American life", "Little more than a decade [before 1962], Lolita would have been a bizarre improbability, since May-December relationships were regarded as vaguely improper. Romance between aging Ezio Pinza and Mary Martin in South Pacific was probably somewhat accepted because she was identified with "My Heart Belongs to Daddy"". In the article December Song, featured in the magazine "Out", Austin Bunn writes "Undeniably, economic advantage plays a part in May- December relationships. But it's not the only dynamic. My friend Michael, 26, moderates an electronic mailing list for "mature men." He's attracted to "Santas," guys in their 70s." In "Real Life, Real Choices", Kijana Martin writes "Not all May-December relationships...are bad; some are actually genuine. Not all of them are based on control." Ian Kerner, a sex therapist in private practice in New York and author of "She Comes First" wrote in an article for ABC News that "Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher have been the poster couple for healthy older- women May-December relationships...they appear affectionate and loving, enjoy family events and he's considered a father figure and role model to her children."

Redirect

At the AfD, only three users supported keeping the article, while ten supported deleting, redirecting and/or merging (=not having a standalone article). While yes, no consensus does default to an article being kept, in this case "keep" editors were outnumbered more than 3 to 1 and it just doesn't make sense to defer to what is clearly a minority view just because no majority was achieved for any of the other options. If "non-keep" is considered as an option, consensus not to keep the article is obvious. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 03:24, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I am not saying that you are wrong in saying that the article deserves more to be redirected than to be kept - it is not for me to say. But per various essays which I can't find at the moment, merely deciding the validity of the article based on the Keep/Delete votes is wrong - e.g. there may be 10 keeps which give 10 flawed arguments, and only 1 delete which presents a great case. Or then again it may be vice versa, or somewhere in between these 2 extremes. By all means, suggest the article to be redirected, but I think that your methodology is flawed, and has caused you to perhaps jump to conclusions that may be false.--Coin945 (talk) 06:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I think you're thinking of WP:NOTAVOTE. I'm using the numbers as shorthand for arguments; I think the closer would have mentioned if there were any problems with one side's arguments that led hir to weigh them less, particularly since so many more people opposed keeping this as a standalone article. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 08:46, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

• I changed the redirects May-December relationships and May-December romance to point to May-December relationship.

• I remind people that {{afd}} is WP:NOTAVOTE. Those who are unhappy with the result of the {{afd}} should offer a policy-based explanation at DRV as to why the discussion was closed incorrectly. Geo Swan (talk) 07:33, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
  • I don't necessarily believe it was closed incorrectly (I'd probably have closed differently, but everyone's got a different threshold); I believe that we're acting incorrectly based on said close. "No consensus" doesn't mean the end of discussion. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 08:46, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
• Anyone? –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:23, 23 December 2011 (UTC)