Talk:Madrid derby

Objection

Can I place an objection of the allegory used to describe the El Derbi to be like the rivalry in Manchester. We can be very clear about the difference between Real Madrid and Athletico Madrid in terms of each club's political, socio-economic and geographical support. Plus the historical dynamics of Real being supported by what might be described as the "establishment."

However to make the allegory with Manchester is unfair. Neither clubs has a bias towards any so called "establishment" in the city. Historically United emerged from a railwaymen's sports club, whilst City from an Anglican Church. However such roots are fairly distant in their relevance today.

Each club has developed a sizeable middle class support, with a balanced split amongst local politicians. community and business people. Perhaps a generation ago, there might have been a subtle religious difference between the clubs. With United apparently attracting a larger number of supporters from the local Roman Catholic community, whilst City have a larger pretence amongst the Jewish community. Although this is not at all uniform.

A geographical split does exists on a north east/south west bias within the county of Greater Manchester.

So overall I feel the allegory is unfair and should be removed.

HPC April 2010 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.76.190 (talk) 12:36, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Why are all English Real Madrid articles biased, mentioning false political connections and divides between sets of fans?

I ignore who did you get your history from, probably some Barcelona propaganda, but there is a bias and total inaccuracies in the main article and both rivalries' articles. I am from Madrid and have been living here 24 years now and I have read quite much about Real Madrid history (the club I support) and Spanish football history in general.

-The identification of Real Madrid as the establishment club is false. Even more if we are comparing both Madrid clubs. Let me remind you some facts. In the 1930s Real Madrid was one of the best clubs in Spain, and enjoyed wide support, especially from the left and the working class in Madrid. The purple band in its crest was introduces in 1931 (as they lost their royal title and the crown) as a reference to the II Republic (whose flag was red-yellow-purple, as opposed to the red-yellow-red, as a reference to the Comuneros, who rebelled against Charles I and V of Germany in the 16th century). This symbol persisted under the Franco regime due to utter ignorance. In the 1930s Real Madrid had players from all over Spain, including Catalonia, and, most notably the Basque country. Among their best players were the Regueiro brothers, one of them was the captain of the Basque national team that toured Europe and America during the Spanish Civil War, and who was proud to be a Basque. Juan Negrín's son (a prominent Socialist politician and prime minister of the Republic during the Civil War) played in their newly created basketball team. Rafael Sánchez Guerra, Real Madrid president from 1935 to 1936 exiled and was later imprisoned by the Franco regime. Furthermore, during the Civil War, the club was seized by the Popular Front. A newspaper (Informaciones) stated:

” …Un club democrático como el MADRID, con un plantel de socios netamente republicanos de izquierda, no podía temer nada. La Deportiva Obrera, que tiene un gran concepto de los principios deportivos, encontró justos los razonamientos de algunos socios, y juntos concibieron un plan que ha sido puesto en práctica y aprobado sin excepción alguna, por todos los sectores deportivos de Madrid. Reunidos socios del MADRID y directivos de la Federación Obrera acordaron designar un comité directivo que sustituya a la actual junta directiva (…)”

Which translates: "A democratic club like Madrid, with mostly leftist republican members, could not fear anything. The Workers' Sport Association, that has a great concept of the sports principles, found fair the reasoning of some members, and both conceived a plan that was unanimously approved by all the sports sectors of Madrid. In a meeting of Madrid members and officials of the Workers' Association, they agreed to name a comittee that substitues the current board of directors".

A communist colonel was a bit later Real Madrid president.

On the other hand, Atlético had been relegated after the last season before the Civil War (1935/36), but appeared in 1st Division in the first league of the Franco regime after winning a play-off because Oviedo could not play this season as their stadium had been destroyed during the war. They were merged with Aviación Nacional from Zaragoza (thus being renamed Atlético Aviación) and went on two win the first two leagues under Franco. Real Madrid had the worst time of their history during the 1939-1953 period (the harshest of the francoist regime), winning only 1 Cup and finishing as low as 11th, avoiding the relegation play-off in the last game. Another story is that Franco used the incredible achievements of Real Madrid in Europe for his propaganda. What I talk about in this paragraph is correctly stated in the article.

-This socio-economic and political divide does not exist nowadays, and has never existed (and if it has, the other way round). We leave mixing sport with politics to Glasgow, and to a lesser extent, Barcelona. The North-South geographical divide is also completely untrue. It is true that Atlético enjoys more support in the neighbourhood near their current home, which is indeed by the river and South (but not very far from the centre), but it is not so in other Southern (and more working class) districts. It is also true, nevertheless, that they also enjoy more support than average in the area around their previous venue, Estadio Metropolitano, in the North-West, near the Ciudad Universitaria. Anyway, both clubs enjoy support in all parts of the city and the region.

-"Real Madrid's stadium, is majestic, alongside banks and businesses on the classy and aristocratic Castellana, while Calderón can be found beside a brewery along the river". This sentence is also inaccurate and misleading. When Real Madrid's stadium was built, in 1947, that area was not even part of Madrid, but of Chamartín (a former municipality now totally integrated in the city), and there was virtually nothing around. Then, the financial district evolved near the stadium, but this part is by no means classy and aristocratic (at least compared to other areas of the city). The Mahou brewery near the Vicente Calderón stadium has been demolished recently, and anyway they will move to a new stadium (not in the South, but in the Eastern outskirts) soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maki87 (talk • contribs) 00:15, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Politics???

What? I highly disagree with the text, plus it has no references or anything that support a very very rare point of view about the "Derbi" which has always been a sportive confrontation. --88.10.169.103 (talk) 19:25, 10 December 2013 (UTC)