Talk:Paternoster Gang

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Strax: dead or just fainted?

In the small paragraph about Strax as seen in the short "The Battle of Demons Run: Two Days Later" I changed it to say that Strax had been wounded in the battle. Previously it seemed to imply that Vastra and Jenny were of the opinion that Strax had simply fainted. In the short, both Vastra and Jenny say explicitly that they have healed Strax's wounds. It is only when Strax refuses to believe him that Jenny says 'I think you just fainted,' as a joke. That Strax was indeed seriously, if not fatally wounded during the Battle of Demons Run is shown in "The Snowmen" when the Doctor says of Strax that "he gave his life for a friend of mine" but that "another friend brought him back." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anteriorlobe (talk • contribs) 17:45, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jenny and Strax are briefly erased

Last paragraph states "Jenny and Strax are briefly erased". Strax wasn't erased, his timeline was altered so that he remained a warrior, never becoming a nurse. He attacked Madam Vastra & she killed him in self defence. 124.179.89.67 (talk) 08:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC) Swampygree[reply]

As has been discussed on other talk pages, that is not quite what happened. Strax was indeed erased before Vastra could fire her weapon, which was glowing green to show it was charging or primed, but no shot was fired when Strax disappeared. ZarhanFastfire (talk) 21:41, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Spin-off talk

There have been enough media comments made by Moffat regarding a spin-off (or,rather, lack of) to justify inclusion. 70.72.211.35 (talk) 14:05, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Different title?

Shouldn't this article be called "The Paternoster Gang", rather than "Madame Vastra, Jenny Flint and Strax"? Rhain1999 (talk) 12:21, 24 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I thinked about it when I changed the name from "Madame Vastra". But the fact is they are not often called like that, if I remember well. They are more just Vastra, Jenny and Strax. --Hyliad (Hyliad), 19:15, 24 May 2013 (CEST)

where does the name "paternoster gang" come from? --193.28.249.21 (talk) 06:43, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! I checked around a bit, not knowing when the name "Paternoster Gang" entered into the "canon", and it seems it was named in the online "prequel" "minisode" 'The Great Detective' for Children In Need running up to the 2012 Christmas special 'The Snowmen'.81.234.133.93 (talk) 02:09, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In Deep Breath, Jenny refers to their equivalent of the Baker Street Irregulars as 'The Paternoster Irregulars'. I think that's canon if anything. --Imagine Wizard (talk · contribs · count) Iay amay Magineiay Izardway. 20:14, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify, on the pattern of the Baker Street Irregulars, the Paternoster Irregulars would be street urchins employed by Vastra and Jenny to scout out information, not Vastra, Jenny and Strax themselves. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 15:43, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably the parallel is intended to suggest that their house is in Paternoster Row. Is this corroborated in any episode(s) (perhaps by a street sign in shot) or elsewhere in the canon? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 19:29, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A kiss is just a kiss... but is it worthy of inclusion?

The Guardian and a few other sources ([1], [2], [3], etc.) are reporting on what seems to me to be a non-story: specifically, that Ofcom received a grand total of six complaints about the kiss/CPR between Vastra and Jenny in "Deep Breath", and has decided that it's not worth investigating. As far as I can tell, the media are reporting on this mainly because they know that this sort of thing gets clicks and comments, from several quarters: the moralistic minority who get upset at this sort of thing, the activists who are offended that somebody else is offended, and the majority of people who don't really give a darn but are titillated or amused at others' offence. But that's my judgement, and hardly NPOV. The question here is: should we include this in the article, for the sake of NPOV? Or would that be giving undue weight to a minority view? (Six complaints is pretty insignificant.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 15:38, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Josiah Rowe that this adding this "controversy" would be a very heavy undue weight. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 22:36, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently the scene was removed from the episode when it was sold to somewhere abroad. (Middle East? Sorry, can't recall the details.) Not saying this tips the balance but further such instances, should they occur, might in due course. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 212.95.237.92 (talk) 19:34, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jenny Flint's death

Although not ultimate, I feel as though Jenny's brief death in Season 7's finale should be referenced at some point in the article as it does hold some relevancy to the character. Strax's non-permanent death is referenced, so why not Jenny's? I would so this myself, though I'm not quite sure how I'd go about it, just a suggestion to one of the other Whovian meganerds out there.

The Paternoster Gang Big Finish series

@TardisTybort: Starting a discussion here for you. The list is required here, to be transcluded to List of Doctor Who spin off audio plays by Big Finish‎, as see at #The Paternoster Gang. This is identical to that see at Bernice Summerfield#Audio plays and Jenny (Doctor Who)#Big Finish, the former having existed with the audio series tables in the article for years, and their related links at the spin off audio plays article (#Bernice Summerfield, #The New Adventures of Bernice Summerfield, #Bernice Summerfield: Treasury, #Jenny: The Doctor's Daughter). Furthermore, MOS:FUTURESEASON does not relate here, as while the audio series is related to a television series, the audio series itself is not a television series; besides, episode tables have already been created for the releases. -- Alex^TW 00:37, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is a prose page of three specific characters, their cultural relevance and reception, their storyline in paragraph form, and McIntosh, Stewart and Starkey's casting. Not a page for episodes of a media series called Paternoster Gang nor its production or staff (especially all these people called "TBA"). To anyone not already closely involved with Big Finish in production or consumption it's an incongruous addition of boxes and sentence fragments with zero context or relevance. It goes through several paragraphs of their storyline in series 6 to 8's episodes, then just some headings for some upcoming stories that say Audio, Paternoster Gang, and then Heritage several times over. And why you argued about television series that way is strange considering there's literally notes about the MOS for television in that table you put on the page.

If a page needs a list to transclude to sort out code on a long bunch of episode lists for List of Doctor Who audio plays by Big Finish, that's one thing. If said page is a character page, which means their in-story history (and behind the scenes relevance and notability), then that doesn't make much sense. Nor does this argument that both "prose isn't always necessary" and "a list of appearances followed by a storyline is far more beneficial"...than prose, I assume? Even though storyline summaries on a Wikipedia article are themselves written prose?

I would argue the same broad points with Jenny the Doctor's daughter (which for a long time only had a fictional bio on her series 4 appearance). Though at least in that instance it has a scant mention of "Georgia Tennant... returning to the role of Jenny in an audio drama release" even though there's still barely any context for the table. (With Bernice Summerfield, I have less of an answer to give right now, but at a glance, that page is laid out much more like a book and audio franchise than a primarily-TV-related character like Jenny (Doctor Who) was until 2017, and Madame Vastra, Jenny Flint, and Strax were until 2018, and has all of two citations.) TardisTybort (talk) 02:01, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Given your apparent strong dislike of this, I would assume that you are not familiar at all with the traditional layout and organization of the Big Finish audio series. Take it to those talk pages where such episode tables for their respective audio series are already included as well. The new audio series is directly related to these three particular characters and as thus, belongs here in detailed form, which will eventually include episode summaries once the series is released. Hence, in-story history. The section can further be expanded with the history of the characters now being expanded to Big Finish, and the choices that lead to this. It was only just added; give it some time to be expanded, there's no rush.

Jenny's article did indeed only have a fictional bio, given that her audio series was only released five months ago. Bernice's, however, while still being an article about the character, has existed thus for years, and these similar articles have begun due to the consensus at that article. So far, I see no reason for its exclusion other than "I don't like it here". -- Alex^TW 02:11, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Long and short, this is not an audio series page. If a page for the 2019 audio series existed, I would be fine with that and the tables going there. Which I notice it has. TardisTybort (talk) 23:59, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I look forward to seeing you at "Jenny" and "Bernice Summerfield". -- Alex^TW 00:54, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]