Talk:List of active United States Marine Corps aircraft squadrons

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Layout

I changed the layout of the HMLA section. Looking for feedback. Worth keeping? Go back to just the straight list? Just trying something different. Let me know--Looper5920 23:25, 30 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Making the list look better

I have been messing around and was looking for some feedback on what others thought of maybe making the list look like the chart below. Interested to hear feedback.--Looper5920 08:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Insignia	Official Name	Nickname
	VMM-263	Thunder Chickens

Yeah, I think that would look great. Maybe just try switchin the insignia with name:...mmmm...maybe, but I think it looks good either way. :) Joe I 09:57, 15 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Official Name	Insignia	Nickname
VMM-263		Thunder Chickens

Is this going to be to big for a list page??--Looper5920

Official Name	Insignia	Nickname
HMT-301		Windwalkers
HMT-302		Phoenix
HMT-303		Atlas

Maybe, but you risk losing detail in insignias if you go smaller. Try it on one of the bigger sections and see. Joe I 09:43, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It looks sharp but it is pretty big. What do you think? --Looper5920 10:08, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

File:CH-53 CM2.jpg

CH-53, flown by HMH squadrons

Official Name	Insignia	Nickname
HMH-361		Flying Tigers
HMH-362		Ugly Angels
HMH-363		Red Lions
HMH-461		Iron Horse
HMH-462		Heavy Haulers
HMH-463		Pegasus
HMH-464		Condors
HMH-465		Warhorse
HMH-466		Wolfpack
HMH-769		Titan
HMH-772		Hustler

I think it looks sweet! Maybe italics for nickname? See first three.Joe I 12:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(Transferring comments made on Looper5920's talk page):With the list as long as it is now, I think that the graphics (one per line) will make it too unwieldy. Since it is a single column list, there is room after each squadron name to put a comma and the nickname (ex: VMGR-152, "Sumos"). One idea that would add some color/image and would be section appropriate would be to put a picture of the particular aircraft that each squadron flies (on the right). —ERcheck (talk) @ 12:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How about making it thinner and doing two columns on the page? Just throwing out ideas. THere has to be a way to make this list better.--Looper5920 23:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I've put a CH-53 photo to the side of the list .... and idea of what I was thinking. A representative aircraft could fit to the right of the lists for each squadron. —ERcheck (talk) @ 00:31, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Another attempt

Official Name	Insignia	Nickname
HMH-361		Flying Tigers
HMH-362		Ugly Angels
HMH-363		Red Lions
HMH-461		Iron Horse
HMH-462		Heavy Haulers
HMH-463		Pegasus

Official Name	Insignia	Nickname
HMH-464		Condors
HMH-465		Warhorse
HMH-466		Wolfpack
HMH-769		Titan
HMH-772		Hustler

How about this...Smaller tables, split into two columns with picture to the right. Does this look better? Manageable?

I actually like the long one better, this one it makes seem less like a continuous list. But I still like how it brings everything together and the insignias add color. I like either one over the current system. Jo e I 11:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that the longer table looks better but if you pro-rate that for all of the squadrons involved on this page this thing will become huge. I am trying to strike some kind of balance. --Looper5920 12:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I know, that's why I said either would be better than current. It will make the list more managable, and will help bring pictures that are on the side, more into the list. Jo e I 12:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Formating

Great job, the tables have turned out excellent I think. They fit fairly nicely with photos as well. Jo e I 08:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was just thinking, maybe we can add another column to designate the wing and base for each squadron. There certainly is enough room to the right, and it may be handy since the Corps like to shuffle units about, especially in times of war. For example:
Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadrons

Heavy helicopter squadrons were first formed in 1966 when the Marine Corps began flying the heavy lift CH-53 Sea Stallion during the Vietnam War.^[1] Their primary role is moving cargo and equipment with the secondary role of transferring troops ashore in an amphibious assault. Most of the squadrons have transitioned to the larger and more powerful CH-53E Super Stallion; however, three squadrons of the original Sea Stallions still remain.^[2] The CH-53Es are the most powerful helicopter in the U.S. military inventory today.^[3]

Squadron Name	Nickname	Date Commissioned	Senior Command	Station
HMH-361	Flying Tigers	February 25, 1952	MAG-16, 3rd MAW	MCAS Miramar, CA^[4]
HMH-362	Ugly Angels	April 30, 1952	MAG-24, 1st MAW	MCB Hawaii, HI^[5]
HMH-363	Red Lions	June 2, 1952	MAG-24, 1st MAW	MCB Hawaii, HI^[6]
HMH-461	Iron Horse	March 15, 1944	MAG-26, 2nd MAW	MCAS New River, NC^[7]
HMH-462	Heavy Haulers	April 15, 1944	MAG-16, 3rd MAW	MCAS Miramar, CA^[8]
HMH-463	Pegasus	July 20, 1944	MAG-24, 1st MAW	MCB Hawaii, HI^[9]
HMH-464	Condors	April 5, 1944	MAG-26, 2nd MAW	MCAS New River, NC^[10]
HMH-465	Warhorse	December 1, 1981	MAG-16, 3rd MAW	MCAS Miramar, CA^[11]
HMH-466	Wolfpack	November 30, 1984	MAG-16, 3rd MAW	MCAS Miramar, CA^[12]
HMH-769	Titan	April 15, 1958	MAG-46, 4th MAW	Edwards AFB, CA^[13]
HMH-772	Hustler	April 15, 1958	MAG-46, 4th MAW	NAS Willow Grove, PA^[14]

Too big? I think it looks better than large blank spaces, but that's my opinion. Whether the additional info makes it more or less encyclopedic is up for debate, I suppose. Bahamut0013 16:03, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Sikorsky CH". The Flying Tigers of HMR, HMM, HMH 361. Retrieved 2007-02-28. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
^ "CH-53A/D/E Sea Stallion and MH-53E Sea Dragon". Department of the Navy -- Naval Historical Center. US Navy. Retrieved 2007-02-28. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
^ "CH-53E / S-80E Super Stallion Helicopter". Sikorsky. Retrieved 2007-03-26. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
^ "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 361". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.
^ "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 362". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.
^ "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 363". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.
^ "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 461". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.
^ "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 462". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.
^ "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 463". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.
^ "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 464". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.
^ "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 465". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.
^ "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 466". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.
^ "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 769". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.
^ "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 772". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

Initial draft of opening paragraph

This is a work in progress. Just stashing it here for the time being United States Marine Corps aviation began on May 22, 1912 when First Lieutenant Alfred A. Cunningham reported to Naval Aviation Camp in Annapolis, Maryland to train to become a Naval Aviator. World War I saw the establishment of the first two flying units in the Marine Corps: the First Marine Aeronautic Company and the 1st Marine Aviation Force. In 1925, Marine aviation first appeared in the annual schedule of Naval Aeronautical Organization seeing the first two squadrons, VS-14M and VS-15M joining the fleet air organization.

The structure of Marine Corps aviation saw great change with the establishment of the Fleet Marine Force in 1933. Aviation became its own section at Headquarters Marine Corps under the direction of the Director of Aviation.

World War II saw Marine air expand to the largest size it would ever attain. By the end of the war, it would consist of 5 air wings, 31 aircraft groups and 145 aircraft squadrons with the largest number of personnel assigned at 125, 162 Marines.

The post war years saw Marine air experimenting with helicopters

Naming Convention

Okay, I've always been confused by the Navy and Marine Corps naming conventions. To somebody like me (and I'm a 48 yr old Air Force brat and ex-Army), it seems like the "official" name would actually be "Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 115", and the unit designator would be "VMFA-115". To someone like me it also makes browsing through lists like Category:United States Marine Corps fixed wing squadrons easier to see at a glance what types of roles/aircraft the various units are. It would be a huge undertaking, but has anybody on the Aviation task force proposed renaming the articles so it's easier to identify what type of units they are? The preceding comment would of course apply to Naval Aviation as well, I don't know if there's a master list/category that contains both Marine and Navy aviation to use as an example. But, with no Navy/Marine background, I could be wrong. Just a comment from somebody not familar with this, and it would probably help quite a few others like myself. wbfergus 15:54, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The reason the articles are named what they are is that while Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 115 is that actual name, it is rare that most people know it by it's full name. VMFA-115 is the much more commonly known name and how they are actually refered to on a daily basis and when written about. I have been thinking about putting a chart in the intro that explains the naming convention. I am reluctant to change the names but can put in a chart of what all of the letter designators mean. Finally, to keep it simple, if it has an "M" in it then it is Marine. Just kidding. Let me know what you think.--Looper5920 18:33, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The chart would really be useful. The current designator naming is just meaningless (to me), especially when looking at a list like Category:United States Navy squadrons or Category:United States Marine Corps fixed wing squadrons. I asumme the V must signify aviation, and as you said the M signifies Marines, but the remaining letters don't make any sense unless you're already intimately familar with Navy and Marine Corps aviation naming conventions. But, on a different note, the page does look super nice and makes a good show of removing the mystery out of the naming conventions. wbfergus 19:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clear it up...the V actually means "Fixed Wing". I'll add the chart as soon as i can--Looper5920 20:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Adding Detachments

The page looks great! Question though... the page lists an historical Marine Corps Target Towing Detachment. Would there be value added by including the current Marine Corps VMR Detatchments? Hebron 09:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

VMR-1 is listed on the page near the bottom of the active units--Looper5920 10:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

number of aircraft in HMLA squadrons

"The Marine Corps’ light attack squadrons are composite squadrons usually made up of 18 AH-1W Cobras and 9 UH-1N Hueys."

I am not Cobra/Huey aircrew but 27 aircraft for a squadron sounds a little extreme. Any sources to back this up? --131.122.190.32 01:40, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The current mix is 18 AH-1W/9 UH-1N. Check the current Marine Aviation Plan (2007 Av Plan) on the Department of Marine Aviation web page [1]Hma1369 00:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

VMGRT-253

VMGRT-253 is the KC-130 FRS. It is apart of MAG 41. It probably should be added right below Marine Aerial Refueler Transport Squadrons. --ProdigySportsman 01:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it used to be there. However, it was recently deactivated, so it is now in the section for deactivated squadrons. — ERcheck (talk) 02:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Though it is still listed on MAG-41's website, if you follow the link to VMGRT-253's website, you will find one of the final messages from the commanding officer about the decommissioning. — ERcheck (talk) 02:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info ERcheck, FRS has moved to VMGR-234 I hear (they got a new motion sim). --ProdigySportsman 04:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It may be mentioned that the VMO squadrons flew UH-1E's before they switched over to the Broncos. The UH-1E's came to the VMO's about '64 and started phasing into the HMLA squadrons around '67.207.145.125.166 21:53, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Spin-off

Since the inactive sqadrons were spun off into thier own article, it shares some of the same info as this one. Instead of simply deleting the duplicate info from one of the two, I was wondering if making a history of United States Marine Corps Aviation would be appropriate and notable enough for it's own page. Bahamut0013 15:38, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and created the United States Marine Corps Aviation article, and moved the "history" section there. Bahamut0013 21:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] "Sikorsky CH". The Flying Tigers of HMR, HMM, HMH 361. Retrieved 2007-02-28. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

[2] "CH-53A/D/E Sea Stallion and MH-53E Sea Dragon". Department of the Navy -- Naval Historical Center. US Navy. Retrieved 2007-02-28. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

[3] "CH-53E / S-80E Super Stallion Helicopter". Sikorsky. Retrieved 2007-03-26. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

[4] "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 361". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

[5] "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 362". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

[6] "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 363". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

[7] "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 461". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

[8] "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 462". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

[9] "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 463". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

[10] "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 464". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

[11] "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 465". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

[12] "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 466". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

[13] "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 769". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

[14] "Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 772". United States Marine Corps. Retrieved 2007-03-16.

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