Talk:List of Boeing 787 orders and deliveries

Please add in Thai airways too

Info is here http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Thai_Airways and https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner Please do add in, I try before and it don't work (reqest more than 2 months already) (Do do doggy (talk) 04:53, 12 January 2015 (UTC))

Thai Airways did not order any Boeing 787s, the aircraft were ordered by ILFC (now AerCap), and delivered to them (as owners), then leased to Thai. That's why they don't appear here. SempreVolando (talk) 05:11, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

So can't the add it in? That is wierd. (Do do doggy (talk) 05:08, 13 January 2015 (UTC))

They don't own them so they are not eligible for inclusion here. May be eligible for a list of B787 operators (mentioning lease from ILFC). --Denniss (talk) 14:31, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

IF it is not for thai airways? Why is it still HS-TQA and so next? And why is it still a thai repaint? p.s. i am just cerious? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Do do doggy (talk • contribs) 05:44, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Thai is a Boeing 787 operator, but this is not a list of operators; it is a list of orders and deliveries. Thai have neither ordered any 787s directly with Boeing nor technically had any delivered to them, they were delivered to their owner ILFC then leased to Thai. Hope it makes sense. SempreVolando (talk) 07:09, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks it makes sences now (Do do doggy (talk) 07:08, 16 January 2015 (UTC))

I guess a list of operators is more interesting than a list of orders and deliveries by this rules. I will make the list of operators so this list can be deleted. Tram2 (talk) 17:29, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Update tables for 787-10

There have been orders for the 787-10 that are in the source, but are not recorded in the table. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.119.3.84 (talk) 00:03, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Customer	Orders						Deliveries
	787-8	787-9	787-10	Total	GE	RR	787-8	787-9	787-10	Total
AerCap		30		30	28	1
Aeroflot	18	4		22
Aeroméxico	2	6		8	*		2	4		6
Air Astana	3			3		*
Air Austral	2			2		*	2			2
Air Canada	8	29		37	*		8	22		30
Air China		15		15		*		13		13
Air Europa	8	10		18		*	8			8
Air France–KLM(France)		17	8	25	*			3		3
Air India	27			27	*		27			27
Air Lease Corporation		23	25	48	28	4		6		6
Air New Zealand		12		12		*		11		11
Air Niugini	1			1		*
Air Tahiti Nui		2		2
Air Tanzania	1			1
All Nippon Airways	36	44	3	83		*	36	27		63
American Airlines	20	22		42	*		20	14		34
Arik Air		9		9
Avianca	12	3		15		*	12			12
Aviation Capital Group(USA)		5		5		*
Avolon		6		6	1
Azerbaijan Airlines	2			2	*		2			2
Biman Bangladesh Airlines	4			4	*
BOC Aviation		4		4
British Airways	12	18	12	42		*	9	16		25
Business Jet / VIP Customer(s)	7	2		9	5	3	6	2		8
China Development Bank Fin.		8		8
China Southern Airlines	10			10	*		10			10
CIT Leasing Corporation	4	16		20	9	7	4	3		7
ECAir	1			1		*
El Al Israel Airlines	2	4		6		*
Ethiopian Airlines	16			16	10	6	16			16
Etihad Airways		41	30	71	*			19		19
EVA Air			18	18	*
GECAS		6	4	10	*
Gulf Air		16		16		*
Hainan Airlines	10	13		23	*		10	13		23
Icelandair	1			1		*
ILFC	23	51		74	34	36	23	32		55
Japan Airlines	29	20		49	*		25	11		36
Jet Airways		10		10
Kenya Airways	9			9	*		9			9
Korean Air	1	10		11	*		1	5		6
LATAM Airlines Group	10	16		26		*	10	8		18
LOT Polish Airlines	8			8		*	8			8
MG Aviation Limited		4		4		*		4		4
Norwegian Air Shuttle	3	19		22		*	3	4		7
Okay Airways		5		5
Oman Air	6			6	*		2			2
PrivatAir	1			1		*	1			1
Qantas Group	11	8		19	*		11	2		13
Qatar Airways	30	30		60	30		30			30
Republic of Iraq	10			10
Royal Air Maroc	5	4		9	*		5			5
Royal Brunei Airlines	5			5		*	4			4
Royal Jordanian	7			7	*		3			3
Ruili Airlines		6		6
Saudia		8		8	*			8		8
Scoot	10	10		20		*	10	6		16
Singapore Airlines			49	49		*
Tanzania	1			1		*
TUI Travel	13	6		19	*		13	2		15
Unidentified Customer(s)	1	74	8	83	77	1		5		5
United Airlines	12	23	14	49	*		12	19		31
Uzbekistan Airways	6			6	*		2			2
Vietnam Airlines		8		8	*			8		8
Virgin Atlantic Airways		17		17		*		14		14
WestJet		10		10	*
Xiamen Airlines	6	6		12	*		6	4		10
Total	418	705	171	1,294	682	433	350	286	–	636

Data through December 31, 2017.

Bisher wurden 636 Dreamliner (2018/353) gebaut. Die Deutsche Flugesellschaft Air Berlin sollte in den Jahren 2018-2022 insgesamt 15 Dreamliner neu gebaut erhalten (Verkaufwert 15-20 Milliarden USD). In Deutschland (Made ein Germany) hat keine einzige Fluggesellschaft eine Boeing 787. https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/List_of_Boeing_787_orders_and_deliveries 192.121.232.253 (talk) 08:56, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

References

Recent Orders and Deliveries

There is a reason that the tables have a specific effective date, currently February. It is because they can descend into chaos if editors add whatever they see in the news. It becomes almost impossible to sort out what has and has not been added, and to keep it the entire table up to date. This is exacerbated by the fact that media often report based on operators, often but not always the same as the entity that took delivery. Also, a single order or delivery will affect several other cells in the table, and if they are not all changed at the same time it becomes a mess to sort out and keep the various totals correct.

Being up-to-the-minute is not the highest priority. It is more important to maintain a not-too-dated table that is coherent, internally-consistent and accurate as of the stated date. How that is done, the only way to do it, is to base changes, not on media reports of individual orders or deliveries, but on the monthly reports that serve as the current basis for the tables.

Separately, I don't see any reason to have a sentence reporting the recent American order, which is not the largest such order, nor noteworthy for any other reason. Top it off, the lead sentence explicitly says 'as of October 2017'. If we are to add more recent information, then we need to recast the whole sentence rather than just slipping the recent information into a sentence that has a prior date. Agricolae (talk) 13:50, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/emirates-places-us151-billion-order-for-40-boeing-787-dreamliners-at-2017-dubai-airshow

Emirates took out a press release about ordering some 40 787-10 worth US$ 15.1 billion,on 12 November 2017. What is the criteria by which these orders are added to the table? Pacomartin (talk) 12:54, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Well, there would seem to be substantial reliable reporting of this at the time, but it is contradicted by another reliable source, Boeing, which shows no such order. There are several possible explanations for the discrepancy: 1) it is possible that the order is no longer on the books - it was canceled when they ordered the A380s in January, the order was shifted to 777s, or the financing fell through; 2) it is there, but hidden - while reported as a purchase, it may actually have been an agreement to lease, and the airframes are listed under the leasing company (this happened with the recent American order, where a purchase was reported by the press, but half of the planes show up on Boeing's books as a new order by Boeing Capital) or are included in Boeing's books under Unidentified Customer; 3) someone at Boeing dropped the ball and it didn't get entered correctly in their system; 4) this was a 'soft' order for which the precise details of payment and timeline still must be agreed upon for it to become a 'hard order'. I don't see how we, as editors, can possibly make sense of this. Until Boeing confirms it, I would be hesitant to conclude that this is a current hard order and that Boeing can't count the number of orders it has, so I would say leave it out for the time being. Agricolae (talk) 14:34, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Just as a follow up, this article [1] says Boeing may announce at the upcoming airshow that Emirates had 'upgraded their commitment' to buy the 40 787s. In other words, as of mid-July it was not yet a 'firm contractual commitment'. The news from the July airshow did not include this announcement, so it presumably remains a 'soft order', not a 'hard order'. Agricolae (talk) 22:36, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Just to reiterate, this page shows the status of all orders, including the Emirates one, on the effective date given at the bottom of the table and chart. There are logistical and factual reasons for only making such periodic global updates to the page. For the latter, the press and even the airlines are notoriously imprecise in reporting orders, either expressing a soft order as a firm purchase, or reporting an agreement to lease as if it was a purchase. From their perspective, that they have decided to operate the planes is what they think their audience wants to hear, but that is not what this page tracks, firm contractual commitments to be the purchaser of record. Likewise, on the practical level, the piecemeal addition of orders can throw the whole table out of whack - even if carefully done it renders the effective date inaccurate, because there are then different effective dates for different data in the same table, while likewise it is more straightforward to update everything at once rather than having to sort out what has and has not been done accurately by the intermittent changes. For both sets of reasons, this page has historically used the monthly Boeing reports of firm contractual commitments as its source. Wikipedia is not supposed to be on the bleeding edge of news reporting, and what this page gains in accuracy and utility by a delay until the next monthly report more than compensates for the data being a few weeks old (gasp!). So, when mid-January rolls around and Boeing posts the next update, that will be soon enough to add Emirates, if their order is even firm yet, something that cannot be accurately deduced from their press releases alone. Agricolae (talk) 20:06, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Let me specifically address the Emirates order. At a 2017 airshow they made an informal agreement to purchase 787s. In November 2018, Emirates announced that they had 'upgraded' the order to a firmer status, but this did not reflect any change in their actual status with Boeing. Instead, this seems to have been a intended to serve as leverage in Emirates' negotiations with Airbus over their outstanding A380 purchase agreement, which they are considering abandoning. There has been no change in status of the 787s, just in publicity, and the Emirates order still does not represent a 'firm contractual commitment', what this page tracks, not company publicity stunts.

As to WestJet delivery, we are days away from the next Boeing update, probably some time next week - that is when we find out if they were the party that officially took delivery of the airframe, or if it is leased. That is the time change their stats (or not). As I have argued elsewhere, for the sake of coherent, consistent updating, it is better for this page to be a few weeks out of date but coming from a reliable, dependable source, rather than being on the bleeding edge, a mishmash of conflicting and inaccurate media accounts. Agricolae (talk) 23:21, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Looks like it is time to explain this again. Changing a single number in the table crates a mess. A single order affects total orders from that airline, and hence the bar chart at the bottom, and it affects the order-by-type, and it affects the total numbers per engine type, Finally, it involves data more recent than the explicit 'as of' date of the table, but that is a particular problem, because if you change that date based on one airline, it is then inaccurate for any other airline that has also received or made new orders. All of these inconsistencies can be dealt with on a monthly basis, at once, to keep everything in sinc, but if individual entries are changed in a haphazard manner, then it requires a lot more work to figure out what has and has not been updated. Other issues also come into play - just because an airline has received and operates a plane, doesn't mean they are the customer of record, as opposed to leasing or purchasing the plane on the secondary market. While airlines often don't distinguish in their public-facing material whether the planes they operate are leased or owned, this table does. Finally, there are levels of order, from tentative agreements to firm contractual commitments. Again, this is often not distinguished, even in airline or Boeing press releases. Unless we stick to one class of order, we risked counting the same order multiple times as it is reported each time the status is upgraded. It has worked best to update this table monthly, using Boeing's tabulation of firm contractual commitments and deliveries to purchasers of record. Agricolae (talk) 21:24, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Thankyou for explaining very well the complexity of the situation this article faces in regards to all the challenges involved with keeping the article up to date.CHCBOY (talk) 14:36, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

China Airlines 787 Order: engine type

Hi, I see that the table gets all its info from one source, Boeing. Boeing has the engine type in the list as "not specified" (NS).

However, I have come across this press release from China Airlines, which states that they have chosen the General Electric GEnx engines:

https://www.china-airlines.com/at/de/discover/news/press-release/20220830

I would like this info to be put in the table, but is that not possible given that the table has all its info coming from the one Boeing source? AP 499D25 (talk) 10:48, 10 March 2023 (UTC)