Talk:Laich-kwil-tach

Untitled

I'm not Laich-kwil-tach but have started "winging" this article from memory and the occasional bit of on-line help because it's needed. I'm sensitive to the whole appropriation thing but believe certain things have to get talked about, however careful the language need be; I'm not going to launch into the slave culture or any of that; I'm more concerned with speaking of such matters as the clout the Laich-kwil-tach wielded over the Straits and River Salish, then their decline in colonial times; One bit I excerpted that I'm not sure about is as follows:

Despite their fierce reputation, it appears Laich-kwil-tach power was waning relative to their newly-powerful southern neighbours by the mid-19th Century, with Squamish and Cowichan raids on Laich-kwil-tach territories before

I cut that off when I realize I wasn't sure; I know that Haida power was already on the wane by mid-century, as one historian noted even Squamish raids against the once-feared islanders. The Euclataws retained a fierce reputation; but I think the various impacts of the fur trade in the Straits and on the river put a cramp in their style and "got in the way", as well as provided their formerly-weaker southern neighbours with better weapons and more. The Euclataws attaced Fort Langley as well as Nisqually - and Fort Camosun (Victoria) but that was all in the 1820s-40s; they were still pretty, um, hostile even at the time of the gold rush, however; and might have been as much of a political firecracker for a Waddington's Road (Homathko River-Bute Inlet) wagon road or railway route had the Tsilhqot'in taken up the battle first.

Actual Laich-kwil-tach persons or someone from the area or who's studied more formally than I have, please revisit and revise what I've done; I've only meant it as a starting point, and to give context to links referring from other pages, either as Laich-kwil-tach or as Southern Kwakiutl; ultimately there should be a Kwakiutl disambiguation page; that currently goes to Kwakawka'wakw. Added basic stuff to Quadra Island and basic link is already in to Campbell River disambigs for Euclataws and Yuculta madeSkookum1 09:38, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Politically Separate

I am not Laich-kwil-tach, but I am Kwakwaka'wakw of the Namgis. This politically separate information is really new to me. I've never heard of it. The Kwakwaka'wakw are all the kwak'walla speaking peoples, up and down the coast. It was the affiliation among the different tribes speaking the language. This was observed in the pot-latch system, with different tribes being placed among all the Kwakwaka'wakw peoples. Just wanted to know where all this new info came from. OldManRivers 05:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, it's what I got (I thought) from Chiefly Feasts and varios writeups in the papers over the years; that the Campbell River bands cut their own path; I'd think that K'omoks-Laich-kwil-tach Council of Chiefs is maybe the overt expression of it; according to Chiefly Feasts it goes back to when they migrated out of the Queen Charlotte Strait region down to Campell River and northern Georgia Strait/southern Johnstone Strait; not sure how many years ago that was but I know it's more or less dated; any ideas? Whatever the proper modern language of it is, whatever's there is stuff that I'd picked up from, as said, news coverage and stuff like Chiefly Feasts. If you know different and can explain it for the folks, go ahead no probs; I was just doing the best I could to start articles off-the-cuff.WP:Be boldSkookum1 05:29, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Glorification

This article seems to glorify these people. Could we make it more encyclopedic? OldManRivers 05:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Like I said above, sorta, it's basically an overwritten stub cribbing what I remembered from here and there; the Euclataws, under their old name, are an important part of early BC history because of their pfofile on the south Coast and in their raids up the Fraser and into Harrison Lake and down into Puget Sound, and for their general power within the colonial era because of their location and, reputedly, their ferocity (as with most Kwakwaka'wakw, granted). Anyway, I did the best I could; take out what's too colourful, but bear in mind that Chiefly Feasts is an authentic and well-researched resource; I don't know what else there is out there right now and for most other peoples I've been using what's on their websites; e.g. the Okanagan stuff is interesting but I haven't had time to adapt much of it for Wikipedia, likewise some of the Secepemc web materials, and so on. Anyway, go ahead and adjust it as you see fit; remember I'm trying (not very successfully) to start going hands off; nobody "owns" these articles althogh in general in Wikipedia it's preferable to add rather than to delete, at least not bulk for rewrites; re-tool what's usable, take out what's wrong, and give 'er a new look. The Euclataws era of history should be an important part of the article; the raid on Fort Langley etc, various other incidents. Their relationship to other Kwakwaka'wakw, and to the Gulf of Georgia peoples, could also maybe use some clarification, both historically and in any modern contexts (I'm still confused by their absorption of the Island Comox....).Skookum1 05:34, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

The history I know is they were waring with neighboring tribes because they started enroaching on their resources, so they got licked, and had to moved southward. This caused them to war with the local Salish people, pushing them down, and absorbed some of them. This wasn't that long ago, but prior or just before contact. But their connection to colonial histories is interesting. My people have a lot of histories connecting with them, or with the yiḵwilhtax (snichem spelling).OldManRivers 05:50, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I think I sent you a link to a PDF paper that went into the details of that migration, inccluding the time-frame...and yeah, there's a lot of interaction with the coming of white people, esp. notably teh siege of Fort Langley just after its creation.Skookum1 (talk) 16:27, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Move/rename

Because you've used "Weka'yi" on the template I'm wondering if that might not be the more proper name for this article; other options as you know are Lekwiltok, Euclataws (the most common in English), Yuculta (now P.C. in English, or was fora while), and other variations of Legwildok; as noted above Laich-kwil-tach is the spelling found on one of the tribal webpages; but tribal informations have also provided Weka'yi, Yuculta, and Lewkwiltok/Legwildok......I've seen other spellings for Weka'yi, too....should we take a popularity contest? ;-) Google hits won't suffice; my gut feeling is to go with the old English name; but that's very un-indigenously correct.....Skookum1 (talk) 16:27, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Wiweḵʼa̱m and Weḵaʼyi are more those separate tribes with Ligwiłda'xw being a more "nation" name. I would have to say Wiwe'kai and Weka'yi are more politically correct terms among band politics, but Ligwiłda'xw is also used to refer to the Kwak'wala-speaking-tribe at the south of Kwakwaka'wakw territory. Hard to explain. But Ligwiłda'xw is still used, and Weka'yi and Wiwek'am are used also. I would suggest creating separate articles for all three. It could be broken like the follow:

• Weḵaʼyi - The Cape Mudge (Tʼsa̱kwa̱ʼluta̱n - the name of the location or village of the Weka'yi people) people.
• Wiweḵʼa̱m - The Campbell River (Tłaʼmataxw - is the name of the location or village of the Wiwek'am people) people.
• Ligwiłda'xw - Laich-kwil-tach, Lekwiltok, etc.

The word Yuculta and it's variants (there are variations through Coast from Vancouver Island to the mainland to the Puget Sound) sound similar to Ligwiłda'xw but is actually a word that covers all the Kwakwaka'wakw people. Some Kwakwaka'wakw tend to think the Coast Salish only warred with the Ligwiłda'xw and the not the rest, but the Coast Salish disagree. (There is an exception to this believe as many Kwakwaka'wakw know they warred with Coast Salish like the Comox, Klahoose, Sliammon etc).

The "da'xw" suffix means "tribe" in Kwak'wala. Da'nax'da'xw, Nak'waxda'xw, Dła’ugwa’adaxw (This is the ancestral name of the 'Namgis tribe. 'Namgis only came to prominence in the past 100 years.)

Hopefully this clears things up. I will add, I am not 100% sure on Ligwiłda'xw being the proper spelling. I think it is, but not 100% sure. I seen it before and I think that was the spelling used. I'll find out. OldManRivers (talk) 03:32, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Laich-kwil-tach/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

needs more detail/description and pics/map --Skookum1 (8 May 06)

Last edited at 02:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 21:34, 29 April 2016 (UTC)