Talk:Ring I

renaming

Hello. I noticed your recent move of the Greater Helsinki-area orbital roads from their common-use English names (Ring I/II/III) to Finnish-specific names (Kehä I/II/III). The associated summaries state that this was done "on request". I've been unable to find any preceding recent discussion on the Talk pages—could you please provide some more background, or a pointer to the appropriate request and who it was made by? Many thanks, —Sladen (talk) 02:03, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

User:Multixfer was the requester saying: Housekeeping. Make way for move from Swedish "Ring I" back to the common name in Finnish "Kehä I". If this is controversial the change can be undone as this sort of action is only supposed to happen if it is uncontroversial. The reason you cannot see it is because the request was on the deleted redirect. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:49, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that "Ring One/Two/Three" (in English) are written equivalently to "Ring En/Två/Tre" (in Swedish) does not mean that they are Swedish! The common name is indeed Kehä I (in Finnish) and Ring I (in Swedish) but those have little bearing on en.wikipedia where the relevant common name would be Ring I (in English) per WP:UE and WP:COMMONNAME.

The equivalent difference is perhaps more obvious with Kehärata/Ringbanan/Ring Rail Line, where the postfix is a word, rather than a numeral. —Sladen (talk) 04:43, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Do they even have an "English" name? Actually it is probably best to talk this out on the article talk page so that others who care can join in. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:54, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

For want of any better answer; "Yes". I'd be quite happy to respond on whatever Talk page this was raised upon—that'd be easier to do if it were undeleted... —Sladen (talk) 05:25, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

So the purpose of this discussion is to determine should the article be called Ring I or Kehä I with the same for Ring II and Ring III. I myself have no opinion, but am willing to implement the consensus. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 05:29, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I haven't really seen these roads called anything in English. Google turns up nothing that I can find. It's very strange to me to see these in anything other than Finnish considering we're talking about Finland and what I thought were "proper" names (technically, these highways are given a number/letter designation, Keha does mean "Ring" in English but I don't think it's meant in the common sense but in a proper name sense... like a US Highway would be named after a person). Perhaps my interpetation is just wrong though. If it needs to be "Ring" I guess move them back to Ring. <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 06:16, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I see you're gone ahead and done it even though we were supposed to be discussing. Anyway, it's fine as Ring, whatevs. <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 06:19, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Per WP:BRD I have restored the status-quo for the meantime. —Sladen (talk) 11:42, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

"Ring I" is the phrase that Finnish speakers tend to use in English and, more importantly, "Ring I" is the phrase that English-speakers in Southern Finland tend to use with other English speakers. In the same way that the name of the river tends to be Vantaa River and not River Vantaa. WP:GHITS is only a guide, but is probably the easiest way to quickly demonstrate this:

Google search	Language	Results
helsinki && ("ring 1" or "ring i") -wikipedia	Swedish	353
helsinki && ("ring 1" or "ring i") -wikipedia	all	12,800
helsinki && ("ring road 1" or "ring road i")	all	207
helsinki && ("ring 1" or "ring i") -wikipedia	English	5,560

The results produced by the last link provide a reasonable overview of how "Ring I" is used in English-language instructions and documentation. Analysis of the linked results supports that this usage is as a proper noun, rather than as a mere translation (and the low figures for "Ring Road 1" support this). —Sladen (talk) 11:42, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Looks fine to me, lets keep it at Ring. <>Multi-Xfer<> (talk) 18:21, 19 August 2009 (UTC)