Talk:Kingdom Come (comics)

Supermans JL

This contains Red Tornado twice - is this on purpose? --91.23.206.206 (talk) 13:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)(B. Barth)

They are different Red Tornadoes, what can be checked by clicking on their names/interwikis. Red Tornado I is the Golden Age one, Mathilda Hunkel; Red Tornado (from Kingdom Come timeline) is Maxine Hunkel, granddaughter of Mathilda and member of JSA as Cyclone. And the Silver Age/Modern Age one, the alien elemental in an android body, became (in KC continuity) 100% elemental, known as Tornado (the word "Red" dropped). Luizlac (talk) 00:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Rogue Metahuman list

While it is certainly interesting (though mistitled), it's really long, and many of them don't have a prominent roles in the series. Is there anything we can do to make that list a little more readable, and possibly not have directly copied from the TPB blurbs? (Personally, I'd just cut those characters out, as it shows that there wasn't much attention paid within the series, anyway.) Toffile 18:27, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

I cut out (what I thought were) the minor characters, but I don't know enough about the history of the DC Universe to do the wikifying that needs to be done. --Pentasyllabic 02:40, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

I have been trying to edit the identity of Green Lantern in this article. It is not Alan Scott but in fact it is Hal Jordan. Everytime I change the fact, it gets changed back. here are the reasons why my correction is true. The symbol used by this Green Lantern is of the Green Lantern Corps, an organization which Alan was never apart of. The last panel we see of GL is at the UN representing "New Oa", a planet that is the residence of the guardians of Oa, creators of the Green Lantern corp, which already stated Alan was not a part of. It would not make any sense for ALan Scott to be guarding against any alien threat as his stories never involved space and always were mostly bout urban crime. So whoever changes it back to Alan Scott please discuss your reason of why you feel that it is him-- A regular Wikipedia reader January 12th 2006 4:29 Central time

Despites who you think Green Lantern is, the fact is that he is Alan Scott. Mark Waid himself has told that more than once. Lesfer ☎ 23:31, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Check out the novelization and the action figure -- both say Alan Scott. I can't find any comparable indications that it's Hal Jordan. Jpers36 00:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes it is rather confusing - while most of the indicators in the book seem to suggest that he's Hal Jordan, there are others that suggest that he is Alan Scott (such as his interaction with jade). However the biggest topper is that the AUTHOR says it's Alan Scott - therefore it's Alan Scott!

--Charlesknight 15:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I full heartedly disagree. The text never states that it is Alan Scott, however, the art depicts it to be Hal Jordan. The ring is that of Hal Jordan, and the fact that he becomes the emissary of 'New Oa' also points to Hal Jordan (or Guy Gardner since Ross refuses to paint Kyle Raynor.)The age of the character would also match Jordan's since he seems to be about as old as Oliver Queen and Bruce Wayne. Alan Scott, on the other hand, would have either not aged (as he doesn't in the current timeline) or would have shown him to be about the age of the Sandman we see in the beginning of the book. So what we ultimately have is the writer saying it is Alan Scott and the artist stating it is Hal Jordan, but the text never comes to a conclusion. I suggest we at least come to a compromise and simply not assign either name to the title.

Nonsense. This kind of narrow-minded strict adherence to the text gets us nowhere. There is no real dispute that Green Lantern in the story is and was always intended to be, Alan Scott. Multiple sources say so, and I do not believe that Alex Ross has ever stated that it was supposed to be Hal Jordan. The costume he wears combines elements of Alan Scott, Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner and Parallax, so that's neither here nor there. In at least one story Alan Scott goes to Oa and helps the Guardians, so again that's a non-starter. Finally, the "Revelations" appendix states: "Our (my emphasis) Green Lantern is the original Alan Scott version, having reclaimed that title and forged his lantern into armor, thereby becoming a self-renewing power source. He partly embodies the ambitions of the Hal Jordan Green Lantern, particularly his creation of an Emerald City. This floating satellite in orbit around Earth protects the planet from any savage alien attack--this last bit reflecting the high science-fiction concepts of the Silver Age GL." It's Alan Scott and always has been Alan Scott. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 08:30, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

In Alex Ross' art collection, Mythology, it says he's Hal Jordan.

In the battle scene at the end, one of Green Arrow wooden arrows punctures his leg. This supports the idea that it is Alan, as his weakness was wood. Also, in Wizard issue #191, Ross confirms it to be Alan.--Rorschach 42 06:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Alloy

The article proposes that this hero is a combination of all the orginal Metal Men. I'm not sure this is a correct assumption. Alloy is present at Armageddon. After the nuclear missile goes off and we see the skeletal remains of the victims, there is one particularly tall skeleton draped over the wreckage. Given that Alloy was the only super-tall hero depicted in the series, it has to be his. Atom-Smasher is tall, but not as tall as the skeleton would imply. All that said, it must be noted that the Metal Men had no skeletons. They were pure metal with small computers in their heads. This may be an unintended discontinuity, as Alloy survived the nuclear destruction of Kansas.

Did Alex Ross describe this Alloy origin? --Eddylyons 15:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Never mind. Looking back at the book, it looks like Alloy was battling some tall devil-looking dude, which could be the huge skeleton --Eddylyons 06:20, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

• • Alloy was battling King Crimson --KetinPorta 17:18, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Atom-smasher can grow in size and they never gave him a limit, anyway, Alloy's a Metal Man, they were robots with the minds transferred into them, they wouldn't have skeletons.

Alloy's there. The afore-mentioned giant skeleton, likely King Crimson, is draped over the partially melted remains of a large humanoid.--24.155.140.54 09:02, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Summary Length

The length of this plot summary is unwieldy and, it seems a little outside the bounds of fair use. I would like to trim it down within the next few days. --Chris Griswold 07:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Behind the Story Needs Citations

I like the commentary in the "Behind the Story" section, however it's in desperate need of citations and references. As it exists this section displays several classic Wikipedia problems, including original research, passive commentary (e.g. "Kingdom Come is considered by many..."), quotes from the creators with no footnotes, etc. While I agree with the editor above (Chris Griswold) that this article could use some trimming the quality of detail and writing makes this a candidate for a WikiProject Comics featured article, but not in it's present unreferenced form. -Markeer 13:01, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the quality of detail in the other sections is actually a boon. --Chris Griswold 13:30, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I will be removing this section within the next few days. It's just not useful if it's not cited. --Chris Griswold 07:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I've removed this section. If information needs to be retrieved with citations (or a few items added to a "Trivia" section), please refer to my edit on this date in the article history -Markeer 13:53, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

There is an article in Wizard #65 called Thy Will be Done (pages 86-98)with explanations concerning the art of Alex Ross in Kindom Come page by page.

Some Careless Person

It appears that some careless person destroyed my effort to put some order in the character images section, I added a lot of empty lines between them to avoid the mosaic look that it has now. KetinPorta 14:05, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, so that kind of lay-out just doesn't fly. Kusonaga 17:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Do we really need that many pictures? They really just clutter the page.--Toffile 17:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I think the pictures should go all together, IMO (when it comes to the characters anyway). Kusonaga 18:24, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I do think we need to cut a number of pictures, just as the plot summary needs to be condensed.--Chris Griswold 19:44, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to whoever finally worked up the discipline to remove the images. Kusonaga 13:20, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Effects of KC: Offspring...

I don't recall Offspring appearing in Kingdom Come and thought he first appeared in The Kingdom, am I wrong? Duggy 1138 07:40, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

• You are 100% correct Palendrom 23:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

There are indeed differences in continuity between kingdom and kingdom come.

Mankind Liberation Front

In the section on the MLF members it says

Vandal Savage: The only willing member of the MLF with any powers to speak of: immortality

But The King of the Royal Flush Gang is also an immortal. Should we fix this or is it a different King character? 199.245.163.1 13:56, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Jimmy Olsen is not dead

Somebody stated that Jimmy Olsen was killed in the Joker's killing spree. However, Jimmy Olsen appears on the big screen television of pg 20 in the Kingdom Come collection.

That's a video of his time as turtle boy - Jimmy is dead, we see this later in the flashback to the Joker attacking the daily planet - he's the ginger guy with the flashing signal watch . --Charlesknight 22:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Verification needed

A user who has repeatedly vandalized comics articles added: "In the Absolute edtion of Kingdom Come, Mark Waid, again confirms that this Flash is Wally West. More importantly though, Alex Ross also states that this Flash is Wally West, however, due to the Flash's evolution, Wally's mind has grown to encompass speedsters that have trancended into the speed force."

Can someone verify this? --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 14:47, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the "encompass speedsters" bit, but in The Kingdom follow-up series, the Flash was indeed confirmed as Wally West. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 15:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Also: "*Superboy and Supergirl: These two characters are seen in the far future with the Legion of Superheroes. It may be possible that the Superboy is Conner Kent/Con-El since it would make more sense than having it being Clark Kent/Superman to avoid confusion in continunity." --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 14:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Kingdom Come G.L. - Are we sure that the Green Lantern in Kingdom Come is Allan Scott? I remember reading when this series was first coming out that the creators were purposefully not identifying him at all.

I'm fairly sure it is. He wears Scotts ring and has a scene with Jade in the background (though that;s circumstantial) I believe the card set confirms it but I don't have access to that. If someone does they could do a lot to clear up the verifications needed on this page. Palendrom 02:32, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

In Alex Ross' Art Collection "Mythology" there's a section devoted only to Kingdom Come, in which, he calls the Green Knight (as it says written beside the drawing), Hal. Also in Mythology, he says that the flash is a manifestation of the Speed Force, and that there are differences between the Kingdom and Kingdom Come, because it's just another slightly different timeline.

In the latest Wizard magazine (#191; Sept. 2007), Ross provides comments for several key charcters in the book; here's what he writes about the Flash: "The KC Flash was always intended to be a combination of the three Flashes, and the character was to be called Mercury with the young female Flash just being the new Flash ... It was always intended that she would be the daughter of Wally West and Linda [Park]." Here are his comments about the Green Lantern: "It was meant to be a bit of a mystery--could that be an older Hal Jordan? ... Ultimately, it's shown to be Alan Scott, and the clue is in the final battle when Green Arrow pierces his armor with wooden arrows." (p. 76)--Galliaz 20:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

GA notes

Incredibly detailed, but this cannot pass a GA in current form. All it is is an extended plot summary with many pictures that may not, in fact, reach fair use standards, zero citations for anything, and no examination of critical or popular reception. It's a great start, but still has a long way to go. --badlydrawnjeff talk 19:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Alternate Endings

No mention is made in the article about alternate endings. I just happened to be reading my copy of KC tonight. I have the four issue series when it came out in 1996. The last scene is different from that mentioned in this article. It does not depict anyone meeting in a restaurant.

In the copy I have, the third and fourth pages from the end have Wonder Woman flying to the farm where Superman lives. He just finished creating a cemetery for everyone who died in the war, and others who died since he disappeared. WW gives him a gift, a pair of spectacles, which he dons. She kisses him passionately, then leaves, calling him Clark. Superman then uses a giant plow -- presumably made from the remnants of the Gulag? -- and digs furrows with it (the obvious image is that of beating swords into plow shares). On the second last page we see Norman McCay talking to the Angel of Death, while watching Superman. The Angel reveals his identity by pulling back his cowl. The man has red hair with a white streak in it. I don't know the DC universe that well (I was a Marvel fan), but I'm guessing this revelation is important. Was he the Sandman, perhaps? In any event, McCay finds himself back in church. The last page has McCay preaching. He's preaching from Revelations, but he has put a positive spin on it. The church has more people than previously. One of the parishioners is the man with the red hair and white streak.

Now, I'm pretty sure I've seen the ending mentioned in the article, about Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman meeting in a restaurant. It seems very familiar. It is not the ending in the original comic. This fact should be mentioned in the article. Someone with more knowledge should indicate where the different endings appeared. Agoodall 05:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The Epilogue (which takes place in the Planet Krypton resteraunt visited earlier,) is in the paperback collection of Kingdom Come, at least. I know because I have it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.79.10.135 (talk) 04:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

He's not the Angel of Death, he's the Spectre

Captain Marvel picture

I feel obligated to point out the beautiful Captain Marvel picture is in fact NOT from Kingdom Come. It's from the 2004 book "The Power of Hope," which follows the Captain. That particular picture is on the back cover of the book, and intended to be reminiscent of Marvel's "less-friendly" pose from Kingdom Come. There was even a poster of that picture released in 2004 (though it only contains his upper body and one arm.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.79.10.135 (talk) 04:50, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

Green Lantern

The article says that the Green Lantern in Kingdom Come is Alan Scott. Surely this is wrong. I think that he is Hal Jordan. He is a representitive of Oa at the U.N., Alan Scott hever really had anything to do with Oa. The Prime Source 20:33, 3 June 2007 (UTC)Dale

In the UN scene it looks very much like he's wearing the Alan Scott ring as opposed to the standard GL Corps version, and in The Kingdom follow-up series the weakness to wood is specifically mentioned- it's definitley Alan. MarkSutton 13:16, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

But Scott has nothing to do with Oa, and if that was him, he would be a man surely in his 80's by then, that has to be Hal. maybe the wood thing was just an inside joke between comic fansCole435 05:15, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Please, quit trying to find logics, this is comics we talking about. It does not matter what we think. The only thing that matters it what Mark Waid had in mind, and what he had in mind was Alan Scott. Period. [1] —Lesfer ^(t/c/@) 13:10, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Has Mark Waid or Alex Ross stated anywhere that he is Alan Scott? The Prime Source 15:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)Dale

In the latest Wizard magazine (#191; Sept. 2007), Ross provides comments for several key charcters in the book; here's what he writes about the Green Lantern: "It was meant to be a bit of a mystery--could that be an older Hal Jordan? ... Ultimately, it's shown to be Alan Scott, and the clue is in the final battle when Green Arrow pierces his armor with wooden arrows." (p. 76)--Galliaz 20:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone notice three universe jumping superheroes in book three. You can see them if you look carefully at the back of the top panel,page 44 of book three, to the right of starman's foot(the silver one). If i'm not mistaken they are spiderman, captain america and thor, members of the marvel universe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.58.0.203 (talk) 15:47, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

About the deleted items in the continuity section (that keep getting re-added)

I was the editor who originally removed the items that are presently in contention: I removed occurrences that struck me as (1) non-notable and trivial; (2) fleeting changes that involved often nothing more than costume alterations; (3) changes that occurred in Elseworlds or alternate universe timelines, since the section is focused upon the mainstream DCU. This entry is bloated with a series of un-informative lists that need to be radically pruned or excised altogether, and this section seems like a good place to start the process of making choices about what we want included and what can be excluded. It would be good to see a constructive discussion of why some editors believe the material needs to be included in the entry, rather than a silent reversion/re-addition of the pruned material.--Galliaz 18:05, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the lists (as per long version order):

Impact/incorporated

• Cyborg - Mainline and temporary. However, it is indicative of "Kingdom Come impacting the DCU" (currently removed)
• Atom Smasher - Mainline and ongoing and apparently the status quo. (currently in)
• Alloy - Mainline, but used once and only once. It does show the impact, but is exceedingly minor. (currently removed)
• Northwind - Mainline and more or less ongoing. I could almost swear that the link was commented on from DC in the lead up to the "Black Dawn" arc. There may be a cite related to this. (currently removed)
• Captain Atom - Mainline and temporary. Again, it shows the impact and I think there was comment from DC after L.A.W. and leading into Armageddon. (currently in)
• Nabu - Mainline, but used only the once. Again with the impact and the possibility of comments from DC. (currently removed)
• J. J. Thunder - Same as Nabu. (currently removed)
• Red Arrow - Mainline and apparently ongoing since the name change "just" happened. Same situation as Atom Smasher. (currently in)
• Cyclone - Mainline and apparently ongoing as with Red Arrow. Given the phrasing, this needs a cite. (currently in)
• Starman - Mainline and apparently ongoing. Information is slightly wrong on two counts (currently in):
  1. The design first appeared in the mainline DCU in Robinson's Starman, and directly referenced the writer/artist notes in the KC collection. Current presentation in article reverses this.
  2. As per the "story so far" the JSA character was side tracked to Earth-22 but did not originate there. Nothing published to date confirms or refutes that he is from the "core" timeline.
• Swastika - Mainline, but only the one use. As per Nabu. (currently removed)
• Wildcat - As per Nabu. (currently removed)
• Red Robin - Mainline, but based on promotional image and interviews. (currently in)
• Rebel - Mainline, cite needed for the sourcing. (currently removed)
• Zatara - Mainline, as per Cyclone. (currently in)
• Offspring - Mainline, as per Cyclone. (currently in)
• Sandman - Mainline, as per Red Arrow. (currently in)
• White Dragon - Mainline, tenuous at best considering the costume pre-dates KC. (currently removed)
• Joker and Olsen - Mainline, maybe. Tenuous at best since it's a plot element suggested by an ad, and only by an ad. (currently in)
• Superman - Mainline, but tenuous. The same character has been solicited as joining the JSA, but not as the future Superman but as he Earth-22 one. (currently in)
• Flash - Mainline, but problematic. Iris West fits, Jai doesn't, wrong name and apparent powers. Also, Iris as the KC Kid Flash has appeared as part of the main timeline starting with the Cobalt Blue arc in Flash. (currently in)
• Aquaman - Mainline, but with no relationship to the material presented in KC. (currently in)
• Judomaster - Mainline, as per Alloy. (currently removed)
• Earth-22 - Mainline-ish. Not really the intent of the other listed items, and may well moot the list except as "Up until IC, these are the elements that were moving the DCU towards KC." (currently in)
• Ibn - Actually falls into 2 parts, one that is currently in and one that isn't:
  1. "Titans Tomorrow" - Alternate timeline. (currently in)
  2. The speculation that Damian Wayne leads into Ibn. This needs a cite though.

Divergence

• Blue Beetle (currently in)
• Jade (currently in)
• Sandman - This is odd since Dodds, as far as the rest of the article goes, doesn't figure into KC. The character that appears is tagged as Sandy. (currently in)
• Spectre (currently in)
• Ibn - As per above, this really needs a cite that the two are the same character.
• Aquaman - Sort of mooting the inclusion in the above list. (currently removed)

Looking at this, there seems to be a degree of inconsistency since there are some elements of equal weight for which inclusion seems to be an arbitrary thing. - J Greb 20:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Comics Project Improvement Drive

This article is the current focus of the Comics Project Improvement Drive. The aim is to focus the eyes of the project here and help bring the article up in quality.

The first step is to run through the article and throw and see if there are any minor fixes that can be done and then throw in thoughts on areas to address. There is also a sub-section below for people to add useful resources that can be added to the article to help flesh out the real world aspects. (Emperor 23:12, 17 October 2007 (UTC))

Resources

If you know of any useful articles, interviews, studies, etc. then add then in here and we can work on integrating them into this entry. NB if they aren't easily accessible then drop in a note if you have it and a precis of the important and relevant bits would be a great help. It'd also be best if the references are templated before being put in the article. (Emperor 23:12, 17 October 2007 (UTC))

Erik has collected a lot of resources for a rewrite but has been working on another rewrite for the moment but has thrown us the link which is jam-packed with goodies: User:Erik/Kingdom Come. (Emperor 00:10, 18 October 2007 (UTC))

Movie?

I've heard rumors that they are planning a Kingdom Come movie. Any truth to it? TwistedRed 21:30, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Move

I've requested this be moved to Kingdom Come (comics). WP:NCC clearly states "In general, when naming an article, use the name itself, without further disambiguation (e.g. Jack Kirby) unless that leads to ambiguity, in which case, follow with "(comics)" (e.g. Ralph Macchio (comics))." It only suggests using "(comic book)" when "...disambiguating between a proper name (a character name, a group name, a location, etc.), and another related eponymous work" - rst20xx (talk) 16:38, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Resources to use

Books

• Waid, Mark (2006). Absolute Kingdom Come. DC Comics. ISBN 1401207685. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help) (Wizard)
• Ross, Alex (2005). Mythology: The DC Comics Art of Alex Ross. Pantheon. ISBN 0375714626. (Wizard)
• Tallon, Felix (2005). "Superman and Kingdom Come: The Surprise of Philosophical Theology". In Tom Morris, Matt Morris (ed.). Superheroes and Philosophy: Truth, Justice, and the Socratic Way. Open Court. pp. 207–220. ISBN 0812695739. {{cite book}}: |format= requires |url= (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
• Lytle, Paul (2006). "The Golden Shield". In Glenn Yeffeth (ed.). The Man from Krypton: A Closer Look at Superman. Benbella Books. pp. 137–148. ISBN 1932100776. {{cite book}}: |format= requires |url= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
• Garrett, Greg (2005). "The Apocalypse". Holy Superheroes: Exploring Faith And Spirituality In Comic Books. Navpress Publishing Group. pp. 121–134. ISBN 1576835766. {{cite book}}: |format= requires |url= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

• "Other comics have dealt with the larger implications of the Holocaust, using it as the basis for stories and story elements. Concentration camps and death camps have often been depicted in comic books—including the internment camp for "bad" metahumans in Kingdom Come..." (pg. 139)
• Norman McCay, the minister who is the protagonist in Kingdom Come, was modeled after (and by) Alex Ross's father, a minister himself. (pg. 178)

• McKee, Alan (2006). "The Best Batman Story: The Dark Knight Returns". Beautiful Things in Popular Culture. Blackwell Publishing Limited. p. 40. ISBN 140513190X. {{cite book}}: |format= requires |url= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

• "Mark Waid and Alex Ross's four-part Elseworlds series Kingdom Come (1996) gave Batman another possible future, its vision of a snowy-haired cynical technocrat distinct from Dark Knight, but indebted to it for the very concept of alternative timelines where iconic, never-changing characters are allowed to age, growing weaker but wiser." (pg. 40)

• Daniels, Les (2000). Wonder Woman: The Complete History. Chronicle Books. pp. 199–201. ISBN 0811829138. {{cite book}}: |format= requires |url= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
• Bongco, Mila (2000). "A Glimpse at the Comics Scene after 1986". Reading Comics: Language, Culture, and the Concept of the Superhero in Comic Books. Routledge. p. 196. ISBN 0815333447. {{cite book}}: |format= requires |url= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

• "The most conservative story of the nostalgic wave came from Mark Waid with his four-part series Kingdom Come published by DC, and illustrated (painted) by Alex Ross. Waid's view of the future was a dismal DC Universe where traditional superheroes like Superman and Batman have retired (and were not accessible to the public anymore). The world was overrun by a new generation of superheroes resembling the West Coast-style heroes of Image and Marvel. When the young breed of heroes caused a nuclear catastrophe, Superman comes back to lead the older superheroes to discipline the new brood and to control chaos through the old order. The clamor for father figures was intensified by Ross' graphics which depicted the old heroes in a style reminiscent of national socialistic propaganda material—the hero-figures were often lit from below and shown from a worm's eye view. Kingdom Come sold 200,000 copies at a time of crisis for other comic sales." (pg. 196)

• Daniels, Les (2004). "A Glimpse at the Comics Scene after 1986". Superman: The Complete History. Chronicle Books. p. 182. ISBN 0811842312. {{cite book}}: |format= requires |url= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

• "The concept originated with artist Alex Ross, who described it as 'the last stand of the super heroes.' As ultimately developed in collaboration with writer Mark Waid, the world was set in a future where characters like Superman and Batman have retired and been replaced with a new breed of nihilistic heroes whose recklessness is threatening the world. A grim, aging Superman ultimately returns to fight an apocalyptic battle that Ross acknowledges is 'a metaphor for today's comic market and how the current, more violent flashy super heroes have changed the playing field.' It is also an epic adventure story featuring virtually every super hero DC has ever published, and the art took Ross almost two years to produce." (pg. 182)
• "'Superman as an older man is something we've never really dealt with in depth,' said Waid, but the original super hero became the moral compass for the story, and his values were something that Kingdom Come was designed to reaffirm. 'Alex and I are both devotees of real heroes,' said Waid. 'Heroes who don't kill, heroes who do things to save people, heroes who work for the common good.'" (pg. 182)

Journals

• Taylor, Aaron (2007). ""He's Gotta Be Strong, and He's Gotta Be Fast, and He's Gotta Be Larger Than Life": Investigating the Engendered Superhero Body". The Journal of Popular Culture. 40 (2): 344–360. doi:10.1111/j.1540-5931.2007.00382.x. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
• Boehm, Carl (2000). "Superman: The Myth through the Christ and the Revelation". Journal of the Fantastic in the Arts. 11 (3 [43]): 236–244. {{cite journal}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |month= (help)

Wizard

• KINGDOM COME CONNECTION (archive)
• BLOWN TO KINGDOM COME (archive)
• ROSS JOINS HIGH ‘SOCIETY’ (archive)
• THE JUSTICE SOCIETY RETURNS! (archive)
• ALEX ROSS: INSIDE THE ARTIST'S GALLERY (archive)
• 50 GREATEST DEATHS IN COMICS HISTORY! (archive)

Comic Book Resources

• DC's Will Be Done: Company Cancels "Kingdom Come"; Comicology Coverage
• Waid on the Keys to 'Kingdom,' Defining Hypertime and Ooverturning 'Crisis'
• Ten Years Later: Reflecting on "Kingdom Come" With Alex Ross

Other links

• Interview with Alex Ross at UGO
• An Interview with Alex Ross at IGN

Resources to use. —Erik (talk • contrib) 18:43, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that - it is really great and shoul prove very useful. The Wizard links are all 404s so I've added the Internet Archive link to the earliest cached version. I also updated the CBR links (as their site moved recently). (Emperor (talk) 15:48, 22 July 2009 (UTC))

List of Kingdom Come characters

I suggested a split of the section of Kingdom Come characters, and believe that it should be split into a subpage to make the parent article to be more concised.--NeoBatfreak (talk) 00:28, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

• Opposed - Bluntly the lists should be trimmed back to what is reasonable for a general use encyclopedia. Not split off as fan service run wild. - J Greb (talk) 01:00, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

It is just a suggestion, that's why I put a template for splitting instead of doing it myself. That's what there's this discussion, because I want everyone agree or realize the necessity of "trimmed back to what is reasonable for a general use encyclopedia." --NeoBatfreak (talk) 03:00, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Misleading Sinopsis

The sinopsis of the story, as it is written now, is misleading and does not summarize the true conflict and themes of KINGDOM COME. I'm referring specifically to this last bit:

Between these two groups is Batman and his assembled team, who attempt to contain the escalating disaster, foil the machinations of Lex Luthor, and prevent a world-ending superhuman war.

That is completely misleading, as Batman is not the main character of the story and he does not drive the main conflict. A better attempt at summarizing KINGDOM COME's plot would be as follows, which is also the sinopsis given by DC Comics in its own website:

In the near future, the DC Universe is spinning out of control. The new generation of heroes have lost their moral compass, becoming as reckless and violent as the villains they fight. The previous regime of heroes—the Justice League—returns under dire circumstances, which sets up a battle of the old guard against these uncompromising protectors in a conflict that will define what heroism truly is. Pagina18 (talk) 16:54, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

References