Talk:Jankovský of Vlašim

Suggestions for improvement

Thanks you for your suggestions !

In regards to the History Section. I will break up the history into 4 parts: 1 Early history in Bohemia, 2 Northern Moravia 1390-1520, 3 Southern Moravia 1435 -1755, 4 History after the year 1755.--Vlasime (talk) 02:54, 27 April 2021 (UTC)--Vlasime (talk) 02:54, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Hey @Vlasime:, I'm the one who tagged the page. I think that way of breaking up the sections would be great! It would definitely make it easier to read.

In regards to the reference section, I'm just confused why there is a "References" heading with nothing and "Additional References" section. If all of those sources have been used when writing the article, then I would put them all under "References". Also, are those books pictured in the "Books" heading references?

In regard to the genealogies, some of the pages don't seem to be WP:RELIABLE. Specifically, WP:USERG addresses Ancestry.com as being unacceptable, and I assume that would be the same for the sites listed. The patricus site does at least list sources so perhaps that one can stay. What do you think? Mbdfar (talk) 22:17, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for getting back to me !

The two books listed cover over 98 % of what is listed in the article. The 2nd book itself has 245 pages of the family's history from 1300 to 2008. I should be able to add links. I added additional references which in turn expands what was listed. In regard the Genealogies: The links provide information on hundreds of relatives. Many are listed in multi other family genealogies. There are thousands of pages on the history of the family. Almost all are in Czech or German. Some are incomplete of incorrect. What is listed is the accurate history.

I will be making changes next week. Take a look then. Thanks in advance .. tj@jankovskynet --Vlasime (talk) 03:34, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Some notes

1. "Nobility Jankovský z Vlašimi was restored with the visit to Czech Republic by Thomas Joseph and William Otto in 2005 and 2007"- by whom, where?

Perhaps "acknowledged" is better word then "restored" since neither Czech Republic nor USA allow nobility. You can find current family linked to old Jankovsky z Vlasimi by looking at references or in current 2008 book on the family. You will also see information on formal visit to Hrad Bitov in 2005, private tour and acknowledgement. Below is recent note from on last visit in 2007.

Nebude na nich chybět dobová fotografie se stručným historickým popisem. Z potomků víme o rodině Jankovských z Vlašimi, kteří vlastnili hrad v období 1612 – 1755. Nyní žijí v Illinois v USA a byli zde předloni. Potomci, vzdálení příbuzní barona Haase, žijí v Rakousku a v Belgii. Někdy se ukážou, ale nijak pravidelně,“ dodává kastelán Jan Binder. www.hradbitov.cz

2. proposed merge - articles "Z Vlašime" and "Jankovský z Vlašimi" are about same family, articles have large overlap.

Within House of Vlasim are 4 maybe 5 family lines that related in some yet unknown fashion before the year 1300.

1st family is Jankovsky z Vlasimi, z Vlasimi, z Jankova from Jankov and Vlasim: members of this family line also later listed as z Nemyčevsi, z Turi, Usovsky and Jankovsky von Mayenhorst.

2nd is family Vlasime na Chrenovice, this family of Leva z Jankova .. They ended in late 1300's.

3rd is family of Zdislav z Vlasime, also listed as Zdislav z Bedrichovic u Jankov .. This family ended by 1400.

4th is family z Vlasime, z Kamenice .. this is family of Jan Ocko, this family later becomes family z Jenstejna.

5th is maybe family z Polne but most likely only though marriage to Zdislav z Vlasime family.'

3. I don't understand "of Prince Vlastislaviců with Coat of Arms of the Přemyslovci" Are these families in some relationship? --Yopie 09:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

House of Vlasim is a sub set of House of Vlastislaviců and have Black Eagle. You can find by looking at the references posted in May 2010 under House of Vlasim.

Původ Vlašimi je skryt v šeru dávných věků. Teprve začátkem 13.stol. je o ní první písemná zmínka. Nejstarší známí majitelé byli páni z Vlašimi, jimž panství patřilo do roku 1363. Jméno Vlašim pravděpodobně vzniklo ze jména Vlastislav, příslušníka rodu Vlastislaviců. Měli v erbu přemyslovskou orlici, jak ji známe z vyobrazení sv. Václava.

Reply: a) janitor of castle dont have power and knowledge for "acknowledging nobility" b) this link [1] explicitly says, that Maxmilian Arnošt II was not Count, and used this title only privately, as courtesy ("Max Arnošt II. z Vlašimi se hrabětem nikdy nestal! ") c)same link explicitly says, that in judicial acts is nothing about male issue of Jan Antonín, and that surname Jankovský is common ("V soudních spisech ke sporu o vlašimskou pozůstalost žádný mužský potomek z tohoto rodu nevystupuje, a tedy nemůže existovat, jinak by se tenkrát jistě o svá práva hlásil. Lidí s příjmením Jankovský je více a mnozí z nich by se rádi považovali za šlechtice. Tudíž tito Jankovští z Vlašimi musí být podvodníci.") d) in reliable sources is nothing about "cadet line" of Janskovský (I can send it via e-mail). --Yopie (talk) 22:04, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

What is your problem, why don't you get a real life and leave the page and the true history alone. It is truly disturbing that Wikipedia allows people like you to even exist. You deal with bits and pieces, some of which are incorrect, and you think you know the family's history.

Example - read current History from Hrad Bitov web page:

Maximilán II. Jankovský z Vlašimi (1689-1736), se ve Vídni spřízní s rody Ditrichštejnů a Daunů. Jako blízký přítel Josefa I. je povýšen do hraběcího stavu(1702).

I know the history. I've study the family for over 20 years using family notes from 1916, visits to Czech Republic, the internet and also with the help from others in the Czech Republic. You lack the knowledge to make changes. You add no value. And you do not help.

regards .. tj —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vlasime (talk • contribs) 04:13, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Moved from my talk page:

Vlasime

User Vlasime:

Why do you make changes to history which you do not know about ?

Please buy book and read Tajemství Jankovských z Vlašimi a na Bítově by Sixtus Bolom

238 pages with history, also has 230 references documents marked

You should be helpful not destructive.

please reply to tj@jankovsky.net

The history as listed is correct. Please do not change again. If you have ?'s contact me. Here are two links for some informatiom .. much more, current information is in 238 page book and in other sources.

http://dejiny.nln.cz/archiv/2007/8/z-hradu-bitova-az-do-ameriky-

http://is.muni.cz/th/65086/ff_m/Hrad_Bitov_a_jeho_panstvi_za_vlady_rodu_Jankovskych_z_Vlasimi.doc Vlasime

please read the history before you delete the history on House of Vlasim .. please contact me at tj@jankovsky.net

I will send you all the documntation you need

Reply to Yopie:

What is your problem, why don't you get a real life and leave the page and the true history alone. It is truly disturbing that Wikipedia allows people like you to even exist. You deal with bits and pieces, some of which are incorrect, and you think you know the family's history.

Example - read current History from Hrad Bitov web page:

Maximilán II. Jankovský z Vlašimi (1689-1736), se ve Vídni spřízní s rody Ditrichštejnů a Daunů. Jako blízký přítel Josefa I. je povýšen do hraběcího stavu(1702).

I know the history. I've study the family for over 20 years using family notes from 1916, visits to Czech Republic, the internet and also with the help from others in the Czech Republic. You lack the knowledge to make changes. You add no value. And you do not help.

I have pride in my family, it's history and do not want it distorted by those who do not know the real history ... so Please stop.

regards .. tj

Below is copy of family notes, before the time of the internet and Wikipeda. John (1845-1944) knew the history of his Grandfather. I'm sure you know history of your Grandfather. Pedigree chart and 1616 Nobility document were hidden by von Daun.

'Přísluší jim pouze rytířský titul, který prokazatelně užívali předtím. Navíc se nyní všechny nobilitační listiny Jankovských z Vlašimi nacházely v majetku Daunů, jejich hlavních soků. Poníženi tak, aby se už nikdy své neoprávněné nároky neopovážili vznést. Zkáza rodu byla dokonána. Po prohraném sporu, ztraceném pohádkovém majetku i titulu zbylo z kdysi mocného rodu devět sirotků, plodů snahy zachránit vymírající rod alespoň v pobočné větvi, a z nich jen jediný syn, nejmladší Jan Václav (narozen 1729).'

1916 OLD JOHN NOTES - 1970's recorded by Joseph and Charles - (RED is changes added later)

"The family was nobility .. they were Lords or Barons .. there was a Town and River named after the Family.. ( Jankov ) they had Castles and servants .. there was a family Crest" ( Eagle near Provonin) "John at time of WWI traced the family back into the 1600's.. went back to his Grandfather's, Grandfather, his name was John, ( Jan Vaclav 1729 - 1775) and his father was also named John .. ( Jan Antonin z Vlasimi 1692 - 1740) he lost the name and title in a family feud. His brother Frank" ( z Vlasimi 1690 -1752) The family was not allowed to use the name or title again and son was banished ( Jan Vaclav ) old name - it was German or perhaps Russian title ? .. ( von Wlashim ) but the family and name Jankovsky is Bohemian. name Jankovsky is old Czech name meaning Lord of John's Family John, Czech Jan, was born 1730 (Jan Vaclav 1729 records by Duan), others born 1760, 1790's ? ( Jan / Karel then Jan ) The family moved from castle at Skaliny ? ( Skalice, Moravia), over the mountains to Pravony (Pravonin) area in the late 1700's .. ( 1775 wife and sons) they were wealthy land owners and prominent in the area ..( 1789 document ) daughter married German Baron. ( Barbara von Raule 1830, also later Anna Jankovsky von Mayenhorst married Baron Wilhelm von Kralik 1862) The family was very small, with only 6 or 7 names listed on the family notes.. there was also another brother Charles born about 1760 (Carl Jankovsky von Mayenhorst ) all the names were John ( Jan ) except for Janko Matu (Jan Matious 1760 ), and John's ( Jan Antonin z Vlasimi ) brother Frank (Frank Antonin z Vlasimi) and another (Colo relative ? ) born in 1790's. "all Jankovsky's ( remaining ? ) are related to those born in 1820's". Others maybe in Plizen? (others Colo. in Budwies)

by 1900 only father and a uncle or cousin still remained ( brother Joseph & Joseph jr ) father lived 96 years ( John Anton 1820 -1916 ).. died at time of WW I.. this is when Grandfather traced the family back in Europe to re-claim land. "he owned land and a business.. had people employed ". also had younger brother Anton and is buried at family plot at St Adalberts .. ( Anton 1848 - 1890 ) came after end of Civil War.. he told stories of America to the family .. he moved out east, came back to visit and gave Grandfather a Civil War Gun. ( John 1845-1944 ) then went back for family, sold his share of land ( 1889 ), never worked and started the Wood Working Business for sons in the late 1890's.. lost Business in 1920's (1926) .. sold apartment building on 200 Walton St. & lived with Mary Dybach.

He spoke Czech, German and learned English in 1890's. John came back to US in 1891 ( ship Havel ) but the family was delayed and did not arrive until 1893.( ship Munchen ) John made visit to Colo in 1930's, cousin ( Aldolph ) was dead but meet sons who had car dealership in Colo Springs. ( in Denver ) There are other Jankovsky's in ILL, but they are not relatives, they owned apartment building also. (German family)

side notes - Grandfather once told me that "the Jankovsky's are a very old Bohemian family, none of them had to work, but now we have to !

After Grandfather died, Uncle Charlie past on the information to me.. My dad confirmed most of the History, names and dates.. he even saw a drawing of the Family Crest when he was a boy.. John only listed info back to late 1600's.. "an attorney sent the info to Europe but with no results.. records on the family are in the archives in Prague"

Notes from Colo.

Note from the family of Charles in Calif from 1992 - " Family once was Austrian nobility, son won great battle, was rewarded by Catherine the Great and given Russian princess as bride, family then moved to area near Prague.. His son Frank was a Austrian Army General .. No one will believe you but the records are in Warsaw or Vienna. Grandfather Charles came to the U.S.with your family in 1887.

Note from Janet - Colo. relatives are not sure of names before 1820's, they lived near Budweis and Aldolph came with cousin to US approx 1883.. to Illinois then went out West. - also knew of family of Illinois - John Anton, wagon maker.

see current notes for complete family colo .. back to 1707

Notes from Antonette 1994 ..

"Grandfather told me history, but I not remember anymore the old names". "Family is old nobility, they owned castles and came from Moravia, John's father had title and land in Europe which we lost when he died ,, wife was Anna, brother was Joseph, Anna married German Noble. There where others but they all died before the family moved. Emma was adopted daughter, family was delayed coming to US after deaths. You know all the other names of John's family".

Note Dad .. It was a Eagle .. they were Lords or Barons. Find Joseph's family.. his daughters. Brother Joseph sold family business and started General Store which failed . Families then split .. only with Christmas Vlastnik then. Joseph in Minn after wife and son died. (2007- Eagle .. same as grave with missing stone with names)

Notes from Milo Jankovsky of Oregon from letter and phone call 1995

Jankovsky's of Chmelna and Jankovsky's of Nakvasovice are relatives. Jiri Janku and younger brother owned land at Chmelna. His daughter marry Jankovsky of Pravonin. Jankovsky's are very old German - Czech family. The two families Janku and Jankovsky shared the land at Chmelna Jiri Janku born 1731. First wife dies in 1762. But Jiri marries again young wife in 1787. They have daughter and 4 sons born 1788 - 1795 Our family then becomes "Jankovsky Janku", today Jankovsky. Your Jankovsky then marries Anna Janku and moves to Nakvasovice. John was very important in village and had German title Zeman. After you family dies WWI, our family inherit land at Nakvasovice. We lost the property and land becomes farm for the village. Three graves of your old German Jankovsky family are on the land. One of your relatives contacted my brother in 1940's.about the land. My brother told him the story of the families. There are now very many Jankovsky from this family at Chmelna, Prague and also in USA.

Old notes of Charles and Joseph do not include family Janku but do match new notes of Antoinette ?'s Jan marry Janku daughter in 1885 , also Jiri marry Unknown Jankovsky daughter in 1787, later is then marriage to Anna Janku

Old Jankovsky notes by Antonette c1930 from JohnFamily was very old rich family. They once owned village Jankov, near Pravonin, that was named after them. They also had Castles in Moravia and German title of Baron. Great Grandfather's father died young and the family lost the Castle and title. John won a great battle in the war of 1750's and was rewarded. The family moved to Pravonin in about 1775, married into family Janku in about 1785 and was given land. John's sons were John and Carl. Carl like his father joined the military. He married Austrian Mayinhorst and moved. John married Anna Janku and had son also named John and daughter Barbara. The daughter married a German Baron and she moved. This John is father of John Anton and brother Joseph. John Anton stayed with brother Joseph after his wife Anna died in 1891. Anton wrote letters to the family and started the family business. Anton came to U.S. after Civil War and John in 1887. All the other then came in 1893. The family lived first on Walton Street in Chicago. Anton died 1899. Mary died 1910. Joseph died about 1900 and John Anton 1916 at age of 96. Old family Jankovsky Janku took over the land after John Anton died. John made claim for land but no reply from Government. No other relatives in Bohemia. Other Jankovsky's in Illinois are German. In Colorado are other old relatives of the family. John visit 1930.

New Notes match notes 1916 - Charles and Joseph of 1970 but with new information. Also Janku notes of Milo from Chmelna 1995.

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vlasime (talk • contribs) 04:41, 7 May 2010 (UTC)