Talk:Ingibiorg Finnsdottir

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility.

Middle Ages Low‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Scottish Islands Low‑importance

	Scottish islands portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Scottish Islands, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of islands in Scotland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Scottish IslandsWikipedia:WikiProject Scottish IslandsTemplate:WikiProject Scottish IslandsScottish Islands
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Scottish Royalty Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Scottish Royalty (a child project of the Royalty and Nobility Work Group), an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scottish Royalty on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you should visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.Scottish RoyaltyWikipedia:WikiProject Scottish RoyaltyTemplate:WikiProject Scottish RoyaltyScottish royalty
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Women's History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Untitled

This should be using name Ingeborg, because it will surely be confusing if all these medieval women bearing essentially the same name have each their own spellings. Marrtel 23:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About original: how they pronounced, spelt or wrote it in Middle Ages, cannot probably be known precisely. And what actually is original: her father but not she, was Norwegian. All we know, she may very well been an exile (as to Norway) all her life. Certainly most of it. Has Scottish (either of the Scottish "languages"?) its established way to render this first name? She came from Denmark, and Danish today render it as Ingeborg. Marrtel 10:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Only one "Scottish language" in those days, Marrtel. Scots language was a product of the later middle ages. Anyways, anything wrong with the form Ingibjörg Finnsdóttir? Usually, my opinion is that if there is no standard English form, the original form is what we should fall back on. The article calls this the Old Norse form. As most Norse names are word compounds, there should be a standardized Old Norse form. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 11:10, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can you cite an English language source which calls her Ingeborg Finnsdottir (if that is, as I'm guessing, your preferred full title)? Haukur 10:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have not yet a preference for the full title, you are mostaken. However, I have a preference for "Ingeborg" and there are literally thousands of English texts which call various women of the essentially same name as Ingeborg this and that. The analogy is the same as with Byzantines, where I supported "Greek" forms as long as it does not change Michael into Mikhael. The patronymic could possibly be Finnsdatter or Finnsdotter. Marrtel 11:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a big deal but we should go by how recent, reliable English language sources spell the full name of this particular woman. Here are some Google Books links I've found (you need to be signed in with a Google account to view them) [1] [2] [3] but Angus is clearly the man to ask here. Big kudos to him for writing a professional article! Haukur 11:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Norwegian article says she was from Austraat. Is that info incorrect, and if not, why cannot it be here? Marrtel 12:11, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ingibiorg wins a name-counting contest in plausibly reliable sources, but if Ingibjörg is the regularised way to write this Old Norse name then that is the way to go as Haukur and Calgacus say. I don't think that WP:UE can apply here. There's no broad consensus on how to represent her name in English and she doesn't appear to be in the Columbia Encyclopedia, the Concise EB or the 1911 EB, so copying those in the usual lowest common denominator fashion is out. There's nothing objectionable about Ingibjörg Finnsdóttir from a pedantic technical perspective - the characters are all in the Latin-1 set and appear in English words, unlike ł or đ. Is being from Austrått as important as being Finn's daughter ? I don't see it myself. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

mother/daughter

Where did we lose the possibility that Ingeborg who married Malcolm could have been Thorfinn's daughter, not widow? Marrtel 12:10, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I decided on closer reading that Duncan was too dismissive of the idea to include it. I can add it back in the footnotes if you like. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

divorce, third marriage

Where did we lose the possibility of a further marriage of Ingeborg, whoever she was? And the possibility of her and Malcolm divorcing? Marrtel 12:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Because I misread (or rather, I failed to note a printer's error) in The Kingship of the Scots. Although it refers in the text to her death being "c. 1085" based on the obits contained in the LVED, a later sentence, and a footnote, make it clear that that's an transposition error and should read "c. 1058". Also, Hollander's translation of the Saga of the Sons of Harald, chapter 17, which says she was an ancestress of Erling Skakke, doesn't match other versions which have Orm's wife as her sister Sigrid. See Talk:Finn Arnesson. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]