Talk:Hameau de la Reine

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Betsy Rosasco

Who is she? What makes her lack of interest worth recording? Mowsbury (talk) 18:17, 21 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's a question I would like to ask. It does not seem a representative point of view especially when there is so little information in the article. Whiteghost.ink 12:53, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reorganising and extending

I just started trying to put some structure into this article and fill it out. Lots to be done yet including the references. Whiteghost.ink 12:53, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Hameau de la Reine/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

The article "Hameau de la reine" (recently renamed from Petit Hameau) demonstrates a good start. However, there is room for development, particularly with the history pre- and post-Marie Antoinette. Furthermore, the referenced can be expanded for a broader knowledge base on the subject.

Substituted at 18:20, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

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Inaccuracy of the "Life at the Queen's Hamlet" Regarding "Pretending to be a Peasant," etc

I recently made a notable change to the "Life at the Queen's Hamlet" section, which previously included information which claimed that Marie Antoinette and her entourage dressed up like peasants, milked cows, brought in 'simple people' to act as villagers, etc. These claims are considered historical myth/legend, and are not adequately supported by historical scholarship.

Since this is a notable change, I wanted to provide a sourced explanation.

Issues with the Footnote

The previous footnote used in this section (footnote 10: Pérouse de Montclos, Jean-Marie. Versailles. Trans. John Goodman. Paris: Abbeville, 1991.) does not adequately support the previous claims.

The author's text in this book contains only 2 short paragraphs about the hamlet. In regards to the use of the hamlet, the author (Montclose) wrote: "... This complex has acquired the dubious reputation of being a kind of operetta version of a small village" and "[The hameau] is widely believed to have been a kind of operetta version of a small village, but this reputation is unwarranted."

The information in the previous version of the "Life at the Queen's Hamlet" section is technically taken from the book, but the information was not written by the actual author (Montclos).

Instead, the earlier "Life at the Queen's Hamlet" information was derived from a quote blurb included on a page next to a photo of the hamlet. The quote blurb is an 1847 quote by François Louis Poumies De La Siboutie, a physician born in 1793, who wrote memoirs (Souvenirs d'un médecin de Paris) with anecdotes about 18th and 19th century France.

Siboutie's quote included in the book says, in full:

"Later I resolved to revisit Trianon, that place so dear to the unfortunate queen. I returned to the Small Trianon, to what is nkown as the Hamlet. This consists of a farm, a dairy, a parsonage, a mill, a master's house, a baliff's house, an overseer's house, and finally the Malborough Tower. On certain days the court gathered at Trianon, in the Hamlet. Louis XVI was the master of the village, his two brothers were baliff and schoolmaster, and the queen was the farmer's wife and held forth in the dairy, whose interior was dressed entirely in marble. Everyone wore appropriate costume. Louis XVI played these games with the greatest ease and good nature, with a simplicity that was admirable. All the thatched cottages had a rustic air, but their interiors were models of luxury and elegance."

The author of the footnoted book specifically points out that Siboutie's quote contains inaccuracies: "In assessing the accuracy of this view, we should begin by jettisoning the names assigned to these structures in the nineteenth century (lord’s house, mayor’s house, vicarage, etc)[.]"

References Supporting the Change

These are the references supporting the change of removing the "pretend peasant" element of "Life at the Queen's Hamlet."

Official Chateau de Versailles website:

http://en.chateauversailles.fr/discover/estate/estate-trianon/queen-hamlet#history-of-the-premises

"Contrary to the deeply-entrenched public image of Marie-Antoinette, the queen and her entourage did not “play at being farmers” amidst these bucolic surroundings, complete with sheep trussed up in ribbons. The queen actually used the hamlet as a place for relaxing walks, or to host small gatherings. The fact that the hamlet was also a functioning farm, a point upon which the queen insisted, meant that it served an educational role for the royal children. "

de Nolhac, Pierre (1925). The Trianon of Marie Antoinette. New York: Brentano's. pp. 211–212.

from page 211-212:

"This is the truth concerning the royal amusements that legend has transformed into farcical comedies: there is no evidence for the improbable masquerade as shepherds and shepherdesses, as Darbys and Joans inhabiting the cottages. No one ever saw the queen playing the farm-wife, nor the great nobles of her Court disguised as bailiffs, millers, and gamekeepers. These parts were played by them on the stage only, and did not cross the footlights of the little theater."

Bertière, Simone, 1926- (2014). The indomitable Marie-Antoinette. Impr. Lightning source France). Paris: De Fallois. p. 305.

from page 305:

"To keep up a farm you must have a farmer, so in the summer of 1785, Valy Bussard was brought from the Touraine with his wife and two children. To help him with his work she hired a team of gardeners, two herdsmen, a mole-catcher and a rat-catcher, and a few other servants of both sexes. She did not dress up as a shepherdess, nor did she assign various village functions to her friends. She was happy enough to just to see that the animals were fed, the cows milked, that the wheel on the mill was turning, perhaps even well enough to grind some grain. In other words, it should actually function like a real farm."

"At the risk of complicating things, she oversaw the works, talked with the laborers, and corrected plans. In her efforts to manage her domain, she encountered nature's resistance to real problems: plants grew or festered, animals were born and died, the earth rendered its bounty to a greater or lesser degree, and sometimes men quarreled. During her morning visits she questioned the farmer, gauged results, dealt with requests, inquired about the health of this one or that one."

Sevresbox (talk) 19:55, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]