Talk:Gunfighter

Gunfighter has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 6, 2014. (Reviewed version).

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Western Gunslingers Rigs

Arvo Ojala, Andy Anderson and Alfonso Pineda three major makers of TV Fast Draw rigs.

Legends in Leather, historical and Hollywood custom reproduction gunrigs.

Alfonso of Hollywood

Kwai Chang Caine

"The presence of guns is not always necessary for this kind of character in a western. For example, in the television series Kung Fu, Kwai Chang Caine is depicted much like a gunslinger, but is a wandering Shaolin monk who instead relies on his mastery of martial arts when called for."

True but guns were almost always present, because the men that Kwai Chang Caine fought had guns on camera in the fight scenes. GT

Origin of term "Gunslinger" MODERN???

The following claims that "gunslinger" is a recent addition to the language and does not occur before 1928. It's a made-up term from Western pulp fiction. That has always been my understanding as well. It's use in the Old West would have been anachronism. Nobody in the 19th century ever said "gunslinger". It would have been "gunman" or "gunfighter." Modern attempts to classify 19th century people into "gunslingers" vs. "gunfighters" (as on this webpage) are especially nonsensical.

http://www.geocities.com/faskew/Colonial/Glossary/West.htm

This modern origin of this term, if confirmed, should be front and center in the "gunslinger" Wiki page!! In fact, I would argue that "gunslinger" should redirect to "gunfighter", along with explanation for the re-direct.

Anybody have a definitive "first use" of this slang term, ala the Oxford English Dictionary?

Sbharris 04:51, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Western Movie Term "Gunslinger"

Before you go deleting anything take a look at http://www.answers.com/gunslinger] GT

This has nothing to do with the historical origins of the term as far as I can see. Historical accounts use a number of terms for what we now call a gunfight or gunslinger, but neither of those terms. Shootist was common, as was pistolero. There were also a number of more local terms that meant the same thing (Border Ruffians were localized to Missouri and Kansas, for example). The term "Boweries" was also common, although that referred more to brawlers and came from the Bowery district in New York City.Intothatdarkness (talk) 22:21, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Use of "Gunslinger" Section

This section seems to be about the term as used in Westerns, but there are some references to historical figures, so I'm not sure exactly what is intended. In any case, some sort of revision is needed to reflect the fact that "gunslinger" is not a historically accurate Old West term. John M Baker 00:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. "Gunslinger" seems to mean "hired gun", and could range from a hitman, to a spy, assassin, etc. Colonel Marksman 01:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Famous Fictional Gunslingers

1. It seems like only Roland should be listed when it comes to The Dark Tower series.

2. Why, in God's name, is Jango Fett on there?

Dancemotron (talk) 05:54, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The definition limits gunfighters/gunslingers to the American Old West (appropriately, I think, otherwise it would include anyone who ever used a gun for any reason - a definition so broad as to lose any meaning). And yet the list of gunfighters in fiction is filled with characters from sci-fi, fantasy, manga, etc. The list looks ridiculous and should be edited.PatrickWB (talk) 21:56, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I should've been the first to chalk up Balthier's name in the popcult section. Yeah, I know nobody used guns in that game, but it is his default weapon, and I think he certainly fills out the gunslinger role with his personality, even if you wind up giving him a katana or dagger like everyone else.Daganolson (talk) 23:31, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See the above comment. This list deals with American Old West gunfighters. Final Fantasy games aren't Old West. I'm pulling the name out until there's more discussion.Intothatdarkness (talk) 13:52, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Gunslinger" term's origins modern--impact on title

Given the article's own concession that the word "gunslinger" is not authentic, should it be the title? Shouldn't it instead be "Gunfighter," since "shootist" and "pistoleer"/"pistolero" are not what somebody would enter into the search engine looking for an article on this subject? Ted Watson (talk) 22:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I'm going to move it per SILENCE. ImpIn | (t - c) 01:57, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jesse James?

Why isn't the outlaw Jesse James listed as one of the famous gunmen/gunfighters? Couldn't find his name in the article.--80.133.246.39 (talk) 11:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fact versus fiction, gunfights

The Fact versus fiction section of the article is full of speculation as fact. It reads as though the author is trying to debunk the myth of the gunman as hero. Maybe they were all cowards. Perhaps they were all reckless fools who got lucky. Whatever the truth is, this section does not give me confidence that the author cares about evidence to back up his take on the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.233.172 (talk) 13:56, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Fact versus fiction reads almost identically to the last few paragraphs of the section immediately preceding it.

"Dangerous with a gun"

The current lede says that a "Gunfighter, also gunslinger, is a 20th century name, used in cinema or literature, referring to men in the American Old West who had gained a reputation as being dangerous with a gun".

Is "dangerous" necessarily the best word to use here? Someone who had a tendancy to inadvertantly pull the trigger whenever they handled a firearm, or to shoot in the air when drunk or happy would legitimately be described as "dangerous with a gun", but isn't necessarily a gunfigher.

I'm not sure what would be a better alternative, though (without also being tautological: "A gun fighter is someone who fights with a gun"). Maybe I'm just being pedantic... Wardog (talk) 18:35, 20 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The term "dangerous with a gun" crops up in period literature, and carried with it the idea that such an individual was one you didn't want to provoke.Intothatdarkness (talk) 15:19, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Consistency in terms

Gunfighter is the chosen term for the article, but gunslinger is used as the primary reference in the first sections. I have no objection to it being used when we're specifically referring to it as another name for a gunfighter, or in describing its origin. However, for the rest of the article, gunfighter should be used, as it is the chosen term of the article. Thoughts?Jbower47 (talk) 19:43, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Street kings added?

in the popular culture page should the movie Street kings be added? because Keanu reaves character is refered to as the "last of the ghetto gunfighters" and refers to himself and other cops who bend the rules and kill criminals as gunfighters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.157.59 (talk) 01:28, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate lists of gunfighters, outlaws

There are lists of gunfighters, outlaws, outlaw gangs, here, here, here, and here. The terms "outlaw" and "gunfighter" are often used interchangeably. In some instances individuals like William Brocius, Jesse James, and Jim Miller are listed as both gunfighters and outlaws. The article Gunfighter talks about both. I don't think the distinction between gunfighters and outlaws is useful. A gunfighter is defined as a gunslinger, is a 20th century name, used in cinema or literature, referring to men in the American Old West who had gained a reputation as being dangerous with a gun criminal: someone who has committed a crime or has been legally convicted of a crime. A gunfighter is defined as lawless: disobedient to or defiant of law, and an outlaw is a bandit is a person living the lifestyle of outlawry.

Unless someone has some serious considerations, in a week or so I am going to consolidate these as List of Old West outlaws and gunfighters. I think creating a list of famous Old West gunfights and a list of Old West gangs is not controversial and will create those in the next couple of days. — btphelps ^{(talk) (contribs)} 04:12, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd almost rather see it go as a "List of Old West Gunfighters", as there was often a significant amount of fuzziness with some of these individuals when it came to which side of the law they were on at any given time. If we go back to the period use of the term (as defined by Rosa, among others), anyone who was good with a gun would be lumped into this category without any distinction between outlaws and lawmen (for the most part). Concur that lists of gangs and gunfights isn't controversial, though.Intothatdarkness (talk) 15:17, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the consolidated List of Old West gunfighters. — btphelps ^{(talk) (contribs)} 11:44, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me!Intothatdarkness (talk) 14:42, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional gunfighters

Would this be an appropriate category for people who are shown using a gun frequently but aren't some kind of professional? I was thinking anyone in a post apocalyptic movie with a gun, or characters from anime like Trigun. CensoredScribe (talk) 00:22, 18 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Seems kinda fuzzy to me. Intothat darkness 18:15, 18 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Gunfighter/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Bulls123 (talk · contribs) 15:50, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Being a western fan myself, I'll be tackling this one. Bulls123 (talk) 15:50, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Checklist

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	~~Generally good and lengthy. But there were a few grammar and syntax problems such as ".[6]Clay Allison", "of being" instead of "as being synonymous with cowboy".~~ The "In popular culture" section is so full of this, and many of its sentences are just horrible to read (example: Yasuhiro Nightow is known for creating the manga Trigun, which also was adopted into an anime.) It needs to be fixed and reworked.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	~~Lede is good, but it doesn't summarize the "Popular culture" section. It needs to summarize everything in the article.~~
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	One of the main problems of the article. The references are good, but there's a History Channel reference that needs to be replaced. Also, most of the references don't even have any authors, dates, and publishers. Worst, the "Outlaw or lawman" only has 1 reference , and the "Living on reputation" section third paragraph doesn't have any. References are needed.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	~~Aside from what I said above, the quotes in the article has no references.~~
	2c. it contains no original research.	~~Given that some parts are not referenced while some aren't written that very well, it may constitute to OR.~~
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Although lengthy, editors did a great job in keeping the facts neatly written. But in the "Fact and fiction" section there's one entry about cowboy hats, which is completely pointless and unnecessary. This is an article about gunslingers, not cowboys.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	~~The cowboy action pic though needs to be placed somewhere else. It looks like its hanging its sitting in the Legacy section and is untidy to look at.~~
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.	The problems I mentioned will hinder this article to be passed for GA, but I'm pretty sure they're too small and easy to fix. The article itself is broad and promising, so I will refrain from failing/passing it for a while to give the nominator the chance to improve on it. Bulls123 (talk) 16:22, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply] Good job! It seems that you have fixed the problems I pointed out. The article really looks better than the last time I saw it, and firmly deserves to be passed. Bulls123 (talk) 01:59, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done! Although there were links that has no author or dates written on them, some references were fixed and I added some along the way. "Outlaw or lawman" and the "Living on reputation" has their references already fleshed out. I fixed some grammars along the way. Godzilladude123 (talk) 12:19, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The article seems to have deteriorated a bit since this review. Intothat darkness 11:26, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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