Talk:Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - Solid State Society/GA1
GA Review
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Reviewer: Freikorp (talk · contribs) 22:53, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Initial review complete. I made several minor edits to the article; if you're unhappy with them feel free to revet and we can discuss the issues. Placing this on hold for seven days to give the nominator a chance to respond. Freikorp (talk) 04:58, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
- Is it reasonably well written?
- A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
15 word direct match: "to set out the inside scenes of buildings in a 3 d format ahead of time".
19 word direct match: "footage from the opening day greetings by the staff and cast trailers television commercials audio commentaries and other extras"
- B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
- Lead
The text "The film debuted in Japan on SKY PerfecTV! on September 1, 2006" appears in the lead, but this information does not appear in the rest of the article and in not cited.Just fixed this one myself.- Focuses far too much on the plot, and not at all on other aspects, such as production.
- What I meant by focuses far too much on the plot, is that I don't see why the entire plot has to be summarised in the lead, especially when the entire plot is in the whole next section. Surely a brief summary of the plots outline, like what appears in the second intro paragraph at Ghost in the Shell (film) would be sufficient. I've never seen an entire plot summarised in a intro paragraph before. There are plenty of tidbits of information in the article, such as budget, Yoko Kanno, the fact that it was "same staff that originally made the TV series" etc, that can be added to the lead to make up for it being shortened in terms of the plot.
- Feel free to revert or modify but I've made this change myself. Does this work for you?
- Yes. @Freikorp: - It looks better now. I did not understand what you meant at first. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 16:16, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
- Feel free to revert or modify but I've made this change myself. Does this work for you?
- What I meant by focuses far too much on the plot, is that I don't see why the entire plot has to be summarised in the lead, especially when the entire plot is in the whole next section. Surely a brief summary of the plots outline, like what appears in the second intro paragraph at Ghost in the Shell (film) would be sufficient. I've never seen an entire plot summarised in a intro paragraph before. There are plenty of tidbits of information in the article, such as budget, Yoko Kanno, the fact that it was "same staff that originally made the TV series" etc, that can be added to the lead to make up for it being shortened in terms of the plot.
- Plot
I know this film's plot was complicated, but are you certain you can't trim some words from it? It's currently sitting at 719 words; can you get it to under 700 as per WP:MOSFILM? Typically I prefer plots to be under 600 but that i'll settle for under 700 with this one.
- Themes
Why don't you have a 'Themes' section?
- Release
This section seems to contain information that should be in its own 'Home media' section as per WP:MOSFILM.
- Lead
- A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
- Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
- A. Has an appropriate reference section:
Current ref 18 (NBC Universal) and 24 (Kodansha) appear to be dead.
- B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:
Have I missed something, or does the source used to back up the budget as being "360 million yen (equivalent to US$3.6 million)" not actually contain that information?Animesou.com does not appear to be a reliable source. About section states: "Please note that assisting Animesou.com is voluntary. We are fans who want to do our best to help other fans in need." It does not appear to have a evident editorial policy.What makes DVD Active a reliable source? The review comes from a contributor to the website, which gives no indication of who actually runs the site (other than it was founded by "two individuals")
- C. No original research:
- A. Has an appropriate reference section:
- Is it broad in its coverage?
- A. Major aspects:
Issues already highlighted in above sections.
- B. Focused:
- A. Major aspects:
- Is it neutral?
- Fair representation without bias:
- Fair representation without bias:
- Is it stable?
- No edit wars, etc:
- No edit wars, etc:
- Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
- A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
- Overall:
- Pass or Fail:
- Pass or Fail:
- I handled a bunch of issues, but I need to ask something before I continue. Please hold this for a moment more. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 07:15, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
- In regards to no themes, this work did not receive the same academic coverage and many sources simply failed to understand what was being discussed. The plot is incoherent at times and very obscure, but it is not really easy to understand. Yes, the Solid State deals with Japan's aging population and falling birth rates, but the core antagonist is not human it is a consciousness or rather unconsciousness which found itself life and purpose. This is different from dissociative identity disorder, but functions similarly. It is never really explicitly spoken and only briefly referenced, but the Puppetmaster was a fragment of Motoko's mind who wandered and took a hold of a purpose and became or integrated with the system that it created. Forum posts show that there are multiple readings of the plot. I particularly like the notion that Togusa's choice represented the Siak choice - it was not "forced" as first thought in the film. Lovely hints throughout, but any of my writings would be OR. Because the themes are complex and not properly sourced, I do not think it would be proper to create them in this article. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 16:30, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
- For DVD Active, the information in the article is an opinion and the source is a reliable source for the opinion of the reviewer. MOSFILM is different from MOSAM, but neither are required for GA criteria and I think that splitting the section out does not improve the article. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 07:06, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for your replies so far, only three concerns remain now, looking forward to your responses regarding them. Freikorp (talk) 15:07, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
- Fixed the two references, one by removing it and the other replaced. MOSAM is different from MOSFILM, but I do not see why a Home Media section needs to be created to pass GA. That is not in the criteria. The production matter is weak, but that is because it was a made-for-TV movie that was not as popular or as successful as the original movie production. That one inspired the matrix and was revolutionary... this was old-hat by then and the production was based off the SAC series format. SAC as a whole has far less information about it that has been released - save a few art books with concepts and such that are not applicable. Anyways... the decision is yours to make in the end. It is not entirely comprehensive, but there is just not much to work with when compared to the original movie and Innnocence were major works which received a lot more attention. The TV series has just not received the same treatment. Even Ghost in the Shell (video game) got a 30 minute VHS and Laserdisc "Making of" documentary. So go figure, can't squeeze blood from a rock. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 18:26, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks for your replies so far, only three concerns remain now, looking forward to your responses regarding them. Freikorp (talk) 15:07, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
- For DVD Active, the information in the article is an opinion and the source is a reliable source for the opinion of the reviewer. MOSFILM is different from MOSAM, but neither are required for GA criteria and I think that splitting the section out does not improve the article. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 07:06, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
- In regards to no themes, this work did not receive the same academic coverage and many sources simply failed to understand what was being discussed. The plot is incoherent at times and very obscure, but it is not really easy to understand. Yes, the Solid State deals with Japan's aging population and falling birth rates, but the core antagonist is not human it is a consciousness or rather unconsciousness which found itself life and purpose. This is different from dissociative identity disorder, but functions similarly. It is never really explicitly spoken and only briefly referenced, but the Puppetmaster was a fragment of Motoko's mind who wandered and took a hold of a purpose and became or integrated with the system that it created. Forum posts show that there are multiple readings of the plot. I particularly like the notion that Togusa's choice represented the Siak choice - it was not "forced" as first thought in the film. Lovely hints throughout, but any of my writings would be OR. Because the themes are complex and not properly sourced, I do not think it would be proper to create them in this article. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 16:30, 24 December 2014 (UTC)