Talk:Genie (feral child)

Use of the R slur

This article uses the term "mentally retarded/retarded" throughout it, which is considered offensive and outdated. Would it be possible to change it to something more along the lines of "intellectual disability?" Orangecalvin23 (talk) 22:26, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

• Typically, this is done because that is the phrase the sources use. We can't put words in their mouth. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 22:32, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

  Sure, but if you had an article set about Black people from the 1800s, you wouldn't consistently refer to them with the n-word. 167.206.19.130 (talk) 20:34, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

  The difference is that even in the 1800s, the n-word was a slur and was not used in serious, formal writing. "Mental retardation" was widely used in the scientific literature and in non-pejorative contexts until the late 20th century, and the leading advocacy group Arc of the United States used "retarded citizens" in its name until 1992. I am the father of a son with developmental delays born in 1989, and have seen the change in terminology. The comparison is not valid. Cullen328 (talk) 20:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

  I agree with calvin, but if it's directly quoted, why not put it in quotations? It'll give direct attribution for who describes her as such. Ecco2kstan (talk) 02:18, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

  Actually, we have an article at Nigger because it is a word with a lot of history. We don't censor or try to whitewash history, we just document what the sources say, typically in their voice when possible. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 09:15, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

  this article is not about slurs, its about a person. Ecco2kstan (talk) 17:52, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

  Even then, notice how throughout almost the entire article you linked, the word is italicized or placed in quotations when someone else uses it. It's probably a good idea to reflect that, especially since the classification doesn't have that acceptance anymore. Ecco2kstan (talk) 16:12, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

  Using quote is fine if you are actually quoting the source. Using them as a way to soften the words is not, as the Manual of Style clearly states that quotes should only be used for quotes. This is why I said you put the information in the sources voice, meaning you attribute the phrase without using quote marks. This is the standard here, and for most any published source of facts. We don't make up special rules for one article. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 22:33, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

• I agree that I find it problematic that Wikipedia is using these older terms in its own voice. Apart from anything else, it impairs the ease of understanding for readers. While we can't change quoted material, we should follow current trends about how Genie's strengths and weaknesses are described in modern scholarship and other recent texts. One of these days I will find the time to make this survey, but if anyone else wants to do sooner that would be very helpful. Slp1 (talk) 15:49, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

  If contemporaneous studies of Genie referred to her as “retarded”, they’re referring to a concept that is tied to the word—if the word is offensive, we cannot just substitute it for a nicer one, because that would functionally be substituting the concept. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 02:17, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

  I agree. If we are able to communicate the same concept in updated language, then it improves both the prose and modernity of the article. pluckyporo ^{(talk • contribs)} 04:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

"Genie (feral child" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Genie (feral child has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 9 § Genie (feral child until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 01:50, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

too long for replaceability

"Genie first became notable after being discovered by California authorities, and this was the first publicly released picture taken of her after her rescue. This photograph of Genie was widely disseminated in the media at the time, and is the subject of commentary in numerous accounts of Genie and her case. For instance, Russ Rymer dedicates an entire page to describing the picture in his 1993 book, Genie: A Scientific Tragedy, and the 1994 NOVA documentary Secret of the Wild Child, the 2003 Body Shock segment on Genie, and chapter on Genie from the 2002 book Savage Girls and Wild Boys all prominently show this picture. Until the release of Rymer's magazine articles on Genie in 1992 this was the only publicly available photograph of Genie, which made it the most recognizable extant image of her; this remains the case today. Not only are Genie's current whereabouts undisclosed, making it impossible to get a current picture of her, but a picture of her today would be inadequate as it would not show her during the time she was most notable."

why the non free use rational for genie the feral child has such an unnecessary long description for replaceability? what's the point of adding "Until the release of Rymer's magazine articles on Genie in 1992 this was the only publicly available photograph of Genie" cut sentence? why do you use the word "Until"? i don't know then since because there were numerous publicly available photograph of her that had since been privatized, and no longer seen in public. I hope someone can help us to fix this issue. CMIIW. 182.253.54.74 (talk) 01:46, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

This seems to refer to the non-free media information and use rationale at File:Genie immediately after rescue.jpg. Who cares if the text is a sentence or two longer than might be permissible? There is no issue and it is better to leave the situation alone. Johnuniq (talk) 03:24, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

the bot-modified photograph may appear worse due to image compression (From 29 to 22 kb) after some user edit the size of a picture for correction. For this original photograph of genie, then where is the original source of website to locate the original location of this photo? 182.253.54.74 (talk) 07:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

I know nothing about the image except that it is not useful to worry about how many words are in the file description. The IP is also as File talk:Genie immediately after rescue.jpg. Johnuniq (talk) 08:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

@Johnuniq, Yes there are some replaceable free image on other website regarding genie the wild child.

So the sentence "Until the release of Rymer's magazine articles on Genie in 1992 this was the only publicly available photograph of Genie." whats the matter for this only image despite there are some unused image of her used somewhere? 182.253.54.74 (talk) 15:05, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

No, there's no free image equivalent. The photograph in question is by far the best known image of her, is from during the time when she was most notable, and as the description notes is a significant part of why her case initially received so much attention. As there were no other published photos of her until 1992, and none of what's come out since then is free, this picture is irreplaceable. Any free image of her today would 1. almost certainly be a massive invasion of privacy, to say nothing of an affront to basic human decency and 2. not depict her during the time she was best known for. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 04:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@The Blade of the Northern Lights

"As there were no other published photos of her until 1992" you mean after 1992 the other photos of her were lost forever? OR, after 1992 there are more existing photos of her? 182.253.54.87 (talk) 03:16, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

From November 1970 until Rymer's magazine article was published, that was the only public photograph of her. Rymer's magazine article has a picture of her, which is not the best quality. The Nova documentary on her and BodyShock episode featured some footage and images from the case study, much of which is very shaky quality because the film went completely to hell before it was restored for said documentaries, and in 2008 there were two pictures in one of the news stories of her; they're apparently from 1988 and 1993, which aren't helpful for someone best known for being the subject of a case study as a teenager. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 03:35, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Dating issue

"As of 2016, Genie was a ward of the state of California living in an undisclosed location in Los Angeles."

This sentence is cited to two sources from before 2016. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 02:16, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Fixed, somehow the Guardian reference got moved around. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:47, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Edit Request

In the Hospital Stay section, there is a sentence "A month into her stay, she started becoming sociable with familiar adults, first with Kent. and soon after with other hospital staff."

Was just hoping the period after Kent could be fixed. Bittybit5 (talk) 00:40, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Done, thanks! The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)