Talk:2012 French legislative election

A news item involving 2012 French legislative election was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 17 June 2012.

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Polls

Have any polls been conducted? 68.42.243.198 (talk) 21:29, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, at least four (Ifop-Fiducial, CSA, BVA and Harris Interactive/Viadeo), see "L'UMP et le PS au coude à coude aux législatives" and (with more details from the Ifop-Fiducial poll) "Sondage Ifop Paris Match législatives. La gauche favorite, le FN au plus haut". But the electoral system allows too many local variables to allow any valid prediction: at the second round there can be more than 2 candidates, so will the worst placed UMP one support the best placed one against e.g. a FN candidate even if he/she is a Socialist, same problem in some other cases where there will be a second round between a FN candidate and a PS one, with the UMP eliminated. And there are many breakaway candidates from all sides. --Minorities observer (talk) 23:07, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive edits by Lihaas

User:Lihaas deleted several parts of the article, and tagged the Ethnic and gender diversity one. I didn't see it at once, but he also transformed full links in raw links in references. Is it a coincidence that "Lihaas" proudly states on his user page that he is a staunch partisan of the fascist and racist parties Front National and Ataka ? I think all his edits in this article (and probably in others) should be reviewed. --Minorities observer (talk) 08:30, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Two rounds?

Please someone explain why there are two rounds in this election. For a president this is ok, a 2-round parliamentary election is not all that common... Perhaps someone better-acquainted should elaborate in a couple of sentences in the article how it works (& perhaps even why this system was chosen?). BigSteve (talk) 12:35, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

France is divided into 577 constituencies (see Constituency (France)). Every constituency elects one member of the National Assembly. For more information see French National Assembly#Elections.--В и к и T 13:29, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a section explaining how the two-round system works. Aridd (talk) 10:47, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! BigSteve (talk) 11:46, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Left front

I think that the left front should not be counted in the same coalition as the socialists, because they are not in the presidential majority coalition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.58.62.73 (talk) 16 June 2012‎

You're right, even if they've already said they wouldn't vote with the Right against the government, they won't support it, that's why the PS wants an absolute majority. --Minorities observer (talk) 10:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, although on election night France24.fr was counting them all up together as "parliamentary left". 86.166.40.220 (talk) 20:34, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since at least the 1980s (I vote since 1983 at French elections as an Frenchman born and permanently living abroad), there is a "discipline républicaine" between PS and PCF between the two rounds when two candidates of these parties are qualified for the second round: the one that got the least votes does not contend the second round and advise his voters to vote for the best placed left candidate. That's "parliamentary left", as opposed to the "far left" (trotskyists) which never go further than the first round and usually does not ask its voters to support the more moderate left candidates for the second round as they see them as accomplices of Capitalism. --Minorities observer (talk) 21:26, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Missing seats?

The total amount of seat results reported (e.g. 333 for the Left, and 224 for the Right, plus some others) equals only 564, when there are a total of 577 seats in the National Assembly. What about the missing seats? If the result has not yet been totaled, some mention should be made in the section.68.42.243.198 (talk) 01:37, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the results needs to be updated. Complete results can be found here.--В и к и T 12:12, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The missing seats are from the expats, there should be 8 Socialists, 1 Greens, 3 UMP Isaac Ching (talk) 14:13, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The numbers of votes from both rounds also seem to need updating, and there are some missing entries for Centrist Alliance and total right - I'd go through and fix them, but I don't know if the numbers of votes are final yet? 81.98.43.107 (talk) 18:37, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

French legislative elections (plural)

Shouldn't this article really be entitled "French legislative elections, 2012" (rather than "...election..."), given that 577 separate elections have just been held (one in each constituency – each to elect a single representative in the National Assembly)? This truth is more accurately conveyed by the title of the corresponding French-language article: Élections législatives françaises de 2012. -- Picapica (talk) 15:31, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I dunno, but by looking at other article titles, if it is "<country> general/parliamentary/legislative election, <year>", "election" is usually singular. If the title explicitly refers to the chamber/house, such as "United States Senate elections, 2010" or "Philippine House of Representatives elections, 2010", the plural "elections" is used (although there are exemptions when there's only one ballot for everyone).

You're comment makes sense, though. I think the "general election" wording carried over, as the word "election" is always singular. Perhaps further discussion should take place at WP:WPE&R? –H T D 02:02, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It would be proper to use the normal form of the word "election" in English, because this is English wikipedia, regardless of whether the word was singular or plural in French. However, since both "election" and "elections" seem to be used equally commonly in English, it probably doesn't matter.Eregli bob (talk) 08:40, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Eregli bob, I pointed out the title of the corresponding French-language article only to say that it seems more objectively to reflect the facts of the case. I wasn't arguing that we should consider amending the title of the English-language article simply because that of the French one differs. You beg the question, however, in calling "election" (in this context, I take you to mean) the "normal form" of the word in English!

I quite agree with you, nevertheless, that the "normal form", as used in English-language sources, should be our guiding principle – as per Wp guidelines. And that principle would seem to indicate that, in the context of the recent elections to the French National Assembly, "legislative elections" beats "legislative election" by more than four times to one in the UK media (websites examined: BBC, The Guardian, The Independent, The Telegraph, The Times). Perhaps others might like to comment concerning English-language sources in other countries? -- Picapica (talk) 14:02, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Far left

This article uses the term "other far left" in its summary of election results, which implies that the Left Front is far left. This is not correct. In French political culture, Communists and the Left Front are not normally considered far left (see http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Far_left#Definitions_and_characteristics ). There have been some recent attempts by rightwing figures to paint them as such, but this characterization is highly POV (unlike the characterization of the FN as far right, which is generally accepted by reputable news sources and both rightwing and leftwing politicians). "dans la tradition politique française, l'extrême gauche commence à gauche du PCF et regroupe notamment les mouvements trotskistes." "In the French political tradition, the far left begins to the left of the Communists and groups together notably the Trotskyists." ( http://www.liberation.fr/politiques/2012/06/12/les-contorsions-rhetoriques-de-nkm-sur-le-ni-ni_825684 ) 86.166.40.220 (talk) 20:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are there French website with similar tables? How are they labeled? –H T D 02:04, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reading this, it seems the word "other" (for both far left and far right) is omitted. I guess it would be better if the word "other" is removed and just label them as "Far left" or "far right" parties? That'll imply FN isn't far right though. Any ideas? –H T D 02:25, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How about "miscellaneous" for both? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.20.51.78 (talk) 02:45, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I also thought of that. Does anyone have better ideas? If no one has one I'll change it. –H T D 02:49, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Far left" and "Other far right" is what makes the most sense, if we want to reflect common French understandings of the political spectrum. Or "Far left" and "Miscellaneous far right". Aridd (talk) 07:15, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strictly speaking, shouldn't we write only "Far-left" and "Far-right" since that it the exact translation of the official denomination? ABJIKLAMǁTǁC 00:16, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fine by me. (Although it's not necessarily what's clearest.) Aridd (talk) 09:38, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Government ministers

So government ministers are supposed to win a seat in the national legislature, and then immediately resign ? And they are replaced by ?? The current explanation is unclear. If they are replaced by the runner-up from the election, won't that normally be a person from the opposing side of politics ? How can it be democratic for the people in the election district to elect a socialist, who becomes a minister, resigns from the legislature, and then the right-wing candidate who came second in the election for that district becomes the elected representative of the people there ? How does that work then ?Eregli bob (talk) 08:37, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"As no person may simultaneously be a member of the executive and the legislature, any government minister elected to Parliament must immediately resign from their newly obtained seat in the Assembly, in order to remain a minister.[100] Their running mate then takes their seat, and holds it until and unless they cease to be a minister, whereupon they revert to being a member of the Assembly."

What is the meaning of "their running mate" here ? Is this a relic of some previous implementation of multi-member or "list" based legislative electoral districts?Eregli bob (talk) 08:43, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Running-mate" is not really a very good translation of the French term actually used: suppléant, which means something more like "substitute". Each candidate for election is required to name a suppléant, who is mentioned on the ballot paper so that the voters will know who will replace her/him in the event of such circumstances as a subsequent incompatibility of functions (e.g. appointment to government office, as mentioned here). -- Picapica (talk) 13:17, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Incidentally, for those who read French there is an interesting article dealing with the ins-and-outs of being a suppléant at http://www.francetv.fr/2012/blog/le-perchoir/legislatives-a-quoi-servent-les-suppleants-141881 -- Picapica (talk) 15:25, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ranking by seats won in the infobox

I propose a rank per seats won in the infobox as per discussion ongoing on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Elections_and_Referendums#Seat_order_or_vote_order_in_an_infobox. My change has been reverted (Explanation by Impru20 is "Change done without consultation just to make a point in an ongoing discussion. Doesn't seems fair play" while the discussion was about the specific case of Spain with arguments around Spanish context. That shouldn't be a surprise since I wrote specifically in the discussion that I would suggest the change for France). As Impru20 contests now also for France, I will wait for the outcome of the discussion for further edits. Other comments are welcome on the ongoing discussion. Wykx 00:00, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

The dicussion was on the specific case of Spain, but in that discussion this article was put as an example for articles not necessarily ranking parties by seats in their infoboxes. I'm not contesting a change here, I'm contesting your change as arbitrary and done just to make a point in that discussion, as you also did on the Latvian parliamentary election, 2014. You changed those articles because of the discussion in the Spanish article, so it's obvious that I revert this as a consequence of that. Your edit could be considered WP:DISRUPTPOINT. Impru20 (talk) 00:36, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For info we have now an outcome for Talk:Spanish_general_election,_2015#RfC:_Infobox:_Seats_vs._Votes Wykx 22:05, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

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Plural or singular?

Hérisson grognon (talk) 19:21, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]