Talk:Freedom

Preamble for the Metaphysical Libertarians

Metaphysical libertarians believe in free will and that individuals should be able to make their own choices without external constraints. As a result, they often view freedom and liberty as central values in their philosophy.

However, different people may have different understandings of what these terms mean. For metaphysical libertarians, freedom and liberty may be tightly linked to their belief in free will and individual autonomy. They may view any external constraints on an individual's actions or choices as an infringement on their freedom and liberty.

Therefore, to ensure that these concepts align with their philosophical beliefs, metaphysical libertarians may seek to control the meaning of the words "freedom" and "liberty." They may argue that the common usage of these terms does not accurately capture their specific philosophical views and may therefore insist on defining these terms in a way that aligns with their beliefs.

Overall, the desire to control the meaning of these words is likely rooted in the deep-seated belief that freedom and liberty are fundamental to their worldview and that any deviation from their understanding of these concepts is a threat to their philosophical beliefs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edunoramus (talk • contribs) 16:31, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 January 2021 and 17 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Honeyranger.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:28, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Old material

Some additional material may be found at this old revision of Freedom (philosophy) and this revision of the same. bd2412 T 13:55, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Freedom and liberty are equivalent

Freedom and liberty being equivalent there is no need for separate articles, which is essentially forking the article. To say they are different is to put forward a false dichotomy, hence a false fork, which is a anti-constructive to our purposes here. -2600:1:9A15:7D8:B1AD:8B4E:D950:44F9 (talk) 19:09, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Have you ever heard of a mechanical joint having "degrees of liberty"? When an animal is released from captivity, is it given "liberty"? Do you oil a lock to give it "freedom of movement"? bd2412 T 20:57, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

The two simple ways the word is used are in its granular form, the freedom to move one's arm, and the other is the principle of freedom, and the promotion of "liberty and justice for all" (freedom and liberty, for native English speakers, are virtually equivalent). So in minding both of these, the highest usage, the philosophical usage, is generally put first.-Inowen (talk) 00:09, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

To the extent that there are uses of "Freedom" that are distinct from "Liberty", we need an article that describes this distinction. The topic is not ambiguous. It is merely broad. bd2412 T 00:23, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Well, here wouldn't be a bad place to mention the distinctions, as this is the common term. There is a liberty article, yes. We've just got some bad-form article forking at the top of the pile. Because of their equivalence, liberty should redirect to freedom (my preference).-00:40, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

I delivered a comment at Talk:Liberty#Equivalence or divergence of "liberty" and "freedom". -Inowen (talk) 00:54, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

John Stuart Mill

The article currently contains the claim "John Stuart Mill differentiated liberty from freedom in that freedom is primarily, if not exclusively, the ability to do as one wills and what one has the power to do, whereas liberty concerns the absence of arbitrary restraints and takes into account the rights of all involved. As such, the exercise of liberty is subject to capability and limited by the rights of others." This is referenced (chapter 1 of On Liberty), but I've just added a failed verification tag, because I don't find Mill drawing the distinction he is alleged to make. So far as I can see, he uses the two terms interchangeably. For instance, "This, then, is the appropriate region of human liberty. It comprises, first, the inward domain of consciousness; demanding liberty of conscience, in the most comprehensive sense; liberty of thought and feeling; absolute freedom of opinion and sentiment on all subjects" and "from this liberty of each individual, follows the liberty, within the same limits, of combination among individuals; freedom to unite, for any purpose not involving harm to others". It's a somewhat lengthy and dense text though, so I'd welcome correction if anyone thinks that he does draw this distinction. At least, the original reference could be more specific. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AT-Ben (talk • contribs) 17:33, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Edit history for the article "Freedom" et al

Prior to 2006, the edit history for the article "Freedom" is uncertain because the Mediawiki software didn't handle page histories the same as it does now, but as of 2006, the article "Freedom" was, generally, about all freedom topics related to human freedom. (see: [1]) Then it was moved...

[2] 19:03 11 April 2006 ESkog moved page Freedom to Freedom (philosophy)

• right after the 11 Apr 2006 move, the title "Freedom" was usupted into a disam page for the topic of freedom with the following move:

[3] 19:44, 14 April 2006 Commander Keane moved page Freedom (disambiguation) to Freedom

• Then there was an attempt to move it to "Freedoms", which was reverted:

04:09, 23 February 2014 Red Slash (talk | contribs) moved page Freedom to Freedoms (disambiguation)

04:21, 23 February 2014 Malik Shabazz (talk | contribs) moved page Freedoms (disambiguation) to Freedom (reverted above)

• Then later in 2014, the disam page "Freedom" was moved to "Freedom (disambiguation) without leaving behind a redirect to the disam page:

[4] 19:15, 1 September 2014 Cuchullain moved page Freedom to Freedom (disambiguation)

[5] 19:16, 1 September 2014 Cuchullain redirected page Freedom to Liberty (instead of to Freedom (disambiguation) where it was moved to)

• Then in mid-August, a new very general topic article was started in Draft namespace:

[6] 14:29, 15 August 2014‎ BD2412 created the page Draft:Freedom to develop a very general topic article about all aspects of freedom (including those unrelated to human freedom, but not including proper nouns with the word "freedom")

• Meanwhile, the old "Freedom" article that was moved to Freedom (philosophy) was wiped out with a redirect back to Freedom:

[7] 11:52, 7 March 2010 Pfhorrest redirected Freedom (philosophy) to Freedom

• And later Freedom (philosophy) was redirected to Free will

[8] 04:48, 27 March 2010 Turian redirected Freedom (philosophy) to Free will

• editors have since been struggling with the redirect of Freedom (philosophy) to either Freedom or Free will

There may be other moves/redirects I missed, but this will help editors find some of the edit histories and old content. Sparkie82 (t•c) 02:36, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Gaurav got freedom form free fire

Free fire what is??? Is is game 2409:4089:BE8C:624C:2C1C:C375:1E4E:A6C1 (talk) 11:41, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

https://imgur.com/a/zrkF1En Lullabyingxyz (talk) 05:50, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

How can subjectively seperate the two with conflict liberalism was popular with rich types

Liberalism was un popular with British citizens because its was more popular with Prussian Generals and English Royalty it was a right wing political group it's was popular with rich, royal and military types I can source a few things if you'd like you easily surf Wikipedia and find Prussians Germans and many across the UK who supported in but isn't the reformed liberals we see today they certainly believed in freedom but perhaps only their own as these liberals would quick to stomp on a poor farmers or soldiers rights I believed it died out slightly before Ww1 but it wasn't a labour group they did support freeing the enslaved personal rights but as the men started filling trenches in the millions it died off TheEngineofProvidence (talk) 12:20, 30 May 2023 (UTC)