Talk:Francisco Vázquez de Coronado

THE "COMPOSTELA" OF CORONADO IS TODAY THE CITY OF TEPIC, NAYARIT

En febrero de 1540 la actual ciudad de Tepic, hoy capital del estado mexicano de Nayarit, era la ciudad que tenía por gobernador a Coronado siendo su nombre oficial "Santiago de Compostela". La actual Ciudad de Compostela, tambien en Nayarit, fue fundada hasta el 25 de Julio de 1540 por el capitán Cristóbal de Oñate. Precisamente aprovechando que Coronado se encontraba para entonces en el actual Arizona. Tepic es, por tanto, el punto de partida de la expedición de Coronado, no Compostela. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.194.113.127 (talk) 22:16, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Suggested portrait of Francisco Vázquez Coronado

Bust of Francisco Vázquez Coronado in the main square of his hometown, Salamanca (Spain)

--83.46.146.230 (talk) 23:39, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Untitled

Please, correct as soon as posible the horrible mispelling. The name is Vázquez not Vásquez. I know both spellings have the same pronunciation in Mexico, but not in Spain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.37.230.50 (talk) 17:16, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Note

Note: The text has mokeyn partially copied from http://www.win.tue.nl/~engels/discovery/coronado.html - this is not a copyright violation since I am not the >copyrightholder% of that page myself - Andre Engels

Thank you for donating your text to the Wikipedia. You realize that it is now subject to the GPL and will be (A) mercilessly edited, possibly beyond recogniton and (B) copied and even sold without asking you. I hope that's what you want... --Ed Poor

I've been with Wikipedia long enough to know that, and would not have done this if I had objected. Andre Engels

Might be a silly request

Might be a silly request, but perhaps I am not the first who wondered. There is a mentioning of a "Cross of Coronado" in popular culture (all right, "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade"). However, hints on the topic on the net are scarce, to a degree that I assume Spielberg (or whoever) made the cross up. I understand that Wikipedia is not a movie database, yet I'ld be glad if you could clarify. -- 84.136.237.133 22:28, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I always thought it was the "Cross of Cortez" but it's been a while since I've seen the Last Crusade.

Billy Shears 01:05, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I just found this. -- 217.186.53.235 23:48, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Wow, thx! It's been a while since I made the request above, Wikipedia is awesome. :-) --217.189.200.57 00:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Portrait

I am sorry to say that the portrait shown in the article is that of the Duke of Alba, who never had anything to do with Coronado.

The sources (google) [1] say otherwise. Feydey 00:00, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Other sources say he is Fernando de Toledo, 3rd Duke of Alba, who was for a time Governor of the Spanish Netherlands (an infamous character to Belgians and Dutch alike). The portrait was painted by Antonio Moro and is shown in Brussels, in the Musées Royaux d'Art et d'Histoire (www.kmkg-mrah.be/). The same portrait may be found in this article (http://www.el-mundo.es/magazine/2004/264/1097689753.html) about a biography by the famous Hispanist Henry Kamen.

You might also want to check the last image on www.bildindex.de, which clearly says its a portrait of Ferdinand Alvarez de Toledo. --Dynamax 18:44, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

That's why I removed it. But thanks. feydey 18:59, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm not by any means an expert in History or Visual Arts,
but I think Coronado's portrait from "Deaf Smith County Historical Museum" must be wrong,
as it shows clear Native American/Latin American mixed facial features like the nose, eyes, skin color, etc..

Coronado was born in Salamanca - Spain from a noble/aristocrat family,
and therefore I highly doubt he had mixed ancestry.

I'd say the effigy in the article header, or the depiction that can be found in this Floridahistory website,
must be much more accurate, as they show a person with regular Caucasian Mediterranean attributes, as is more common in Spain. Quintessence7 (talk) 23:15, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Sections?

Thought of adding {{wikify}} to this page... It would be great if it were broken into sections, and some details ironed out (see Hernando de Soto (explorer) page for example), but I don't know enough about the topic...

Trial?

I believe that Coronado went on trial for torturing and executing the native people to lead him to the gold, cutting off hands, burning at the stake, etc. Not sure if the trial was in Mexico, or back in Spain. Also, believe he was aquitted of all charges, or rather, that even though he did all the things charged, it was deemed acceptable behavior. Can anybody shed some more precise light on this? Thanks. Jimaginator 13:17, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Move to "Coronado expedition"?

IMHO this article is not mainly a biography over de Coronado - it is the story of his famous expedition. I think this page should be moved to "Coronado expedition", or similar. At this title, a shorter biography could be held also including more non-expedition related things. // Habj 00:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure, since the article isn't too big, also see Christopher Columbus article - his famous first voyage is in the biography and not a separate article... Nothing stops people in adding more non-expedition related things. feydey 08:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I understand User:Habj's point. Nonetheless, User:Feydey's answer is right. We should expand the other parts of the article rather than moving this article. If this article gets too big, then the expedition might warrant an article of its own. See the Hernan Cortes article. The major event of his life (the Spanish conquest of Mexico) has been moved out to its own article because it was too long to fit in the Hernan Cortes article. -Richard 17:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I see you point Richard, but do still not agree since the scope of the article very badly matches the title. It is not inviting people to add non-expedition content; a separate article about de Coronade would. // Habj 13:21, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, I see your point also. The solution then would be to move the article as suggested and then recreate this article as a stub with a link to the Coronado expedition article. I do not object to moving the expedition text to a separate article but I do object to having no entry whatsoever for Coronado.

An alternative to having this article be a stub with a link to the Coronado expedition article would be to have this article redirect there. However, that approach would not encourage editors to add non-expedition info. --Richard 15:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I concur with Richard's approach: move the bulk of the content over to a Coronado Expedition article, but leave enough behind for a stub-like article on Francisco Vásquez de Coronado. This stub-like article will invite readers to add more biographical information (as you suggest, Habj). Madman 20:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Fwiw, I support this as well. -LlywelynII (talk) 17:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Winship book

User:John yazzie1963 added a number of notes citing 'Winship'. I converted those notes into footnotes, and found and added to the References section information on a book by George Winship that I think is the one cited by John yazzie1963. I would appreciate it if someone can check that I indeed found the book that is being cited. -- Donald Albury 13:36, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Possibly misleading phrase about knightood?

I'm thinking about changing the phrase "Coronado, a Knight, was born in Salamanca." This could be interpreted as meaning that Coronado was born a knight. It was my impression that knighthood throughout Christendom was conferred by a noble on an at least semi-adult candidate, rather than being inherited at birth. I'm not sure if Spain followed French and English customs about knighthood, though. Anyone have any information on how Coronado actually became a knight? Pirate Dan (talk) 20:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, I think it's been long enough. I'm taking the knighthood bit out until somebody substantiates it. Pirate Dan (talk) 13:06, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

No clue about Coronado, but knighthood is an inheritable rank in addition to being an occupation and honorary award. -LlywelynII (talk) 17:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

The british honours system is actually pretty unique in not having inheritable knighthoods (or, for that matter, for having baronies that aren't considered noble just because their lord isn't in favour enough to be summoned to the royal council). It was an inheritable aristocratic rank in most of western Europe and in some countries was one of the distinctions between people who were born in the nobility and people who were ennobled. 74.14.170.194 (talk) 22:54, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Legacy needs work

Missing information on the most important bit, the horses he lost along the way which became the mustangs and completely altered American Indian life throughout the continent. -LlywelynII (talk) 17:04, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

The reference to Coronado Heights, a location northwest of Lindsborg, KS, that is believed to be roughly where the expedition turned around to return to New Spain (modern-day Mexico), has a Wiki page ["Coronado Heights wiki"] and was a WPA project. According to the stone plaque at the site, it was project 1292. Many photos are available online to verify, but I don't know how to determine which ones are acceptable for linking and I leave that to a more experienced Wiki editor. I cannot prove, but I believe that the shelter was not erected by a former landowner as claimed in the article, but perhaps they invited the WPA project to proceed.

when he died

The beginning of the article has him dying in 1554, but the end of the article has him dying in 1552. Which is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.29.114.114 (talk) 18:24, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Francisco VáZquez de Coronado

I don't know why you changed his surname. It should be "Vázquez", and not "Vásquez". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.56.9.149 (talk) 23:50, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

yeah, that seems to be correct. [2]. The article should be moved. It is also at Vázquez de Coronado in Spanish wikipedia.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 06:30, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

No, not necessarily VaZquez. The surname is Galician-Portuguese (language) the patronymic of VaSco, which in turns come from the Basque given name Belasko -hence Spanish (language) Velázquez, from Velasco. At that time in all iberian languages spellings s and z (not c and ç) sounded similar or completely the same depending on neighbouring sounds, a bit like b and v, so write Vasquez/Vasques/Vazquez/Vazques made no phonetic difference (same for Velázquez, Velásquez, Blázquez, Blasquis and so on). So, currently the common spelling is Vàzquez, but there are a lot of Vàsquez above all in Latin America. In pure etymology, it must be Vasquez. The standard Portuguese spelling (this surname IS Portuguese language) is Vasques, but you can find alternate spellings as well.83.165.23.152 (talk) 19:18, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

The policy for names of articles is at Wikipedia:Article titles. It sets criteria of recognizability, naturalness, precision, concision, and consistency. In short, the goal is for the name of an article to be recognizable to most English speakers, and not be confusing. The form of a name in most English language reliable sources is a very important consideration in that choice. The historical evolution of the spelling of a name, and the lack of standardized spelling in pre-late modern languages, can be quite interesting to linguistic nerds like me, but has little bearing on how we name articles in the English Wikipedia. Donald Albury 19:48, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I was not proposing to change the name of the article, in fact I didn't change it. I was merely pointing that it is not that clear the arguments provided up there. I don't know how is better known in English Coronado, but the tendence in Spain and Latin America is to keep the original spelling (if possible, I mean, sometimes there are a lot) unless the name is very well established, for instance Magallanes (in Spanish). There are even spelling discrepancies in historical figures between Spain and Latin America and not precisely for phonetic matters, as I guess you surely know well. What I was trying is explaining that someone in Latin America used to talk of Vásquez de Coronado (or even a Spaniard) will see like an odd thing to read Vázquez in the English article (which usually is the base language for translations to other languages). But of course, I am in no position to suggest that this or that way of writting it is worse or better in English, I was only trying to explain the point, and with independence of the adopted decission, it's not a nerdy matter.83.165.23.152 (talk) 00:13, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Lifedates

• Francisco Vásquez de Coronado y Luján (1510 – 22 September 1554) was a...
• ...Coronado retired to Mexico City, where he died on July 21, 1554
• so what? -- Hartmann Schedel ^cheers 15:14, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

still today the same problem is in the article - when did he die? -- Hartmann Schedel ^cheers 08:11, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 67.142.162.28, 29 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} The description of Coronado's route through Northern Mexico and Southern Arizona is purely conjecture and should be removed. Furthermore the location of Chichilticale has never been proved. As evidence I submit: http://www.seymourharlan.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page2.html "A number of scholars have speculated and drawn calculated inferences regarding the location of the Chichilticale ruin (Sauer 1932; Haury 1984; Duffen and Hartmann 1997). Yet through all these efforts, the location of the red house or Chichilticale has failed to be identified. Most recently Brasher (2007) has suggested that he has found it... The most convincing evidence is some of the site and landscape attributes that match those in the chronicles, but these are insufficiently place-specific to arrive at objective inferences at this time and some of these are even problematic." DENI SEYMOUR

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The text that should be removed is below

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After "leaving Culiacan on April 22, Coronado followed the coast, "bearing off to the left," as Mota Padilla says, by an extremely rough way, to the Cinaloa. The configuration of the country made it necessary to follow up the valley of this stream until he could find a passage across the mountains to the course of the Yaquimi. He traveled alongside this stream for some distance, then crossed to Sonora river. The Sonora was followed nearly to its source before a pass was discovered. On the southern side of the mountains he found a stream he called the Nexpa, which may have been either the Santa Cruz or the Pedro of modern maps. The party followed down this river valley until they reached the edge of the wilderness, where, as Friar Marcos had described it to them, they found Chichilticalli.[8] Chichilticalli is in southern Arizona in the Sulfur Springs Valley, within the bend of the Dos Cabeza and Chiricahua Mountains. This fits the chronicle of Laus Deo description, which reports that "at Chichilticalli the country changes its character again and the spiky vegetation ceases. The reason is that the gulf reaches as far up as this place, and the mountain chain changes its direction at the same time that the coast does. Here they had to cross and pass the mountains in order to get into the level country".[9] Though not addressed, they had to have crossed the Gila River, then the Mogollón Rim — which generally runs in an east-west direction, as opposed to the general north-south orientation of the western mountains of Mexico and the United States — and finally the Little Colorado River. Then, they followed the Zuni River drainage into the Cíbola region, in the western part of present-day New Mexico. There he met a crushing disappointment. Cíbola was nothing like the great golden city that Marcos had described. Instead, it was just a complex of simple pueblos constructed by the Zuni Indians. The soldiers considered killing Marcos for his mendacious imagination, but Coronado intervened and sent him back to Mexico in disgrace.

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The text that should replace it is below

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After "leaving Culiacan on April 22, Coronado followed the coast, "bearing off to the left," as Mota Padilla says, by an extremely rough way. He followed a south flowing stream called "Señora" north (believed to the Sonora River of Northern Mexico), then crossed to a north flowing stream called "Nexpa" (believed to be the San Pedro of Southern Arizona). The party followed down this river valley until they reached the edge of the wilderness, where, as Friar Marcos had described it to them, they found Chichilticalli.[8] The chronicle of Laus Deo description reports that "at Chichilticalli the country changes its character again and the spiky vegetation ceases. The reason is that the gulf reaches as far up as this place, and the mountain chain changes its direction at the same time that the coast does. Here they had to cross and pass the mountains in order to get into the level country".[9] Then, they followed another river they called "Red River" (possibly the Zuni River) into the Cíbola region. There he met a crushing disappointment. Cíbola was nothing like the great golden city that Marcos had described. Instead, it was just a complex of simple pueblos constructed by the Zuni Indians. The soldiers considered killing Marcos for his mendacious imagination, but Coronado intervened and sent him back to Mexico in disgrace.

Palatkwapi (talk) 14:04, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Done elektrikSHOOS 16:53, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

References

Coronado's father

The text states that Juan Vásquez de Coronado y Sosa de Ulloa was his father, but the link is to an article about Juan Vásquez de Coronado y Anaya, born 13 years after our Coronado. The source cited at the end of that sentence is also about Juan Vásquez de Coronado y Anaya. -- Donald Albury 12:18, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I found a usable source and rewrote a bit. I left out that Juan Vásquez de Coronado y Anaya was Francisco Vásquez's nephew. I wasn't sure where to put it. -- Donald Albury 14:15, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Other proposed routes

The routes used in this page neglect other's theories such as those from Morris, Holden, etc. We know the route did not go that far north on the 'going' trip. A southern route is more likely since there are artifacts in Blanco Canyon dating to Coronado. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aualliso (talk • contribs) 07:53, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Conquest of Cibola

After the Conquest of Cibola article, there are some random words saying "Wiener meiner dietar anamagrantet". It should be erased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.88.72.38 (talk) 00:01, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Americas

The sentence that begin, "In the New Spain, he married ...." needs editing for readability. Iss246 (talk) 20:32, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Surname

The article mentioned constantly "Coronado" as if that was actually Francisco's last name. It wasn't. His father's surname was "Vásquez de Coronado", and as such, that would equal Anglo customs for last name. "Luján" and maternal names in general are pretty much unused as a last name both in Spanish countries and elsewhere. It is a gross error to refer him as "Coronado", instead of the correct "Vásquez de Coronado". --201.215.141.30 (talk) 00:34, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

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