Talk:Fargo season 3

Jim Gaffigan

There are a group of IPs (probably one editor) persistently moving Jim Gaffigan to recurring, and now removing from the article, claiming he doesn't appear because of "scheduling issues." All the sources we have indicate Gaffigan IS in the series, and is in the main cast; the following was published on EW this morning: [1]. I've asked the IP to provide a source Gaffigan will not appear (and I'm not sure tonight will be sufficient to determine yes or no); I can't find one. --Drmargi (talk) 16:23, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

After doing some digging, I found this (scroll to the bottom of the review). It appears he won't be in the season after all. Of course, it would have been helpful is those IPs actually provided some sort of source. Drovethrughosts (talk) 16:34, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

That must have taken some hunting, because I couldn't find a thing! As you say, this would have been easier had the editor simply provided a source. --Drmargi (talk) 18:54, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Neither could I until I looked on the Fargo subreddit and a found a thread about it. I shall make the changes soon. Drovethrughosts (talk) 21:50, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Glad you found it. I don't spend much time on Reddit (too much testosterone for me), but can't help but wonder why it didn't come up on a google search. --Drmargi (talk) 00:25, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Are they twins?

In regards to Emmit and Ray Stussy, I've seen some back and forth on this in the article and on the main Fargo article. From McGregor himself, he stated he's not playing twins ([2]); the official descriptions of the characters on the FX website regard them as "slightly older brother" and "slightly younger brother" ([3]). Then there are external sources that refer to them as twins ([4], [5], [6]), of course that could just be the journalists making assumptions. Has there been anything in season so far that explicitly stated that they are twins or not? Drovethrughosts (talk) 12:53, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

I assumed they were twins, but then came across numerous descriptions of them as older and younger brothers. No one refers to twins that way, except perhaps as a joke, as twins can only be separated by minutes. And no - nothing in any of the aired eps said they are twins. And they cannot be identical twins as some have claimed (one letting himself go and the other not) as they have different eye color! 96.94.3.209 (talk) 13:23, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

It is integral to the plot that Ray is the younger brother. He claims to have been cheated in the inheritance because Emmit was older, and therefore more knowledgeable of the comparative value of the stamps and the Corvette. Jack N. Stock (talk) 23:41, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

In episode 9, Emmit said he was two years older than Ray. Jack N. Stock (talk) 02:55, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Varga is russian

He has a british accent, but V.M. Varga read the verse "Curved legs" and tell this is from his country, this verse wrote Kornej Tsjoekovski, who is from Russia. This confirms his origin more than his "British accent". Accent doesn't mean nothing. Accent may be the poor part of the acting. Or accent can be got if somebody lived many years in the same country. But the best thing to do it's to put his Unknown Origin on the main place, because by the story it's very important: Varga don't have roots. On the question "where are you from", he simply says "from america". He called himself "citizen of the world", he travels A LOT and his offshore all over the world. The best thing to do, is to change his origin to UNKNOWN, or mention his will to be called "Citizen of the world".— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.148.208.147 (talk) 07:30, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

You're interpreting his dialogue, but we know he's evasive. The accent is the actor's natural accent, not poor acting. We can only conclude that he's British. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 08:31, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Listen to Varga's dialogue and follow the script and idea of scriptwriters and director. Do not listen to "natural accent" of the actor and don't make a conclusions because of his "natural accent". It's not a proof that this character is British. Follow the facts, not your senses. And maybe then wikipedia become better. Stop changing Varga's nationality to British. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.148.208.147 (talk) 15:45, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

With only two nationalities listed among all the characters, why the hell does any matter here? Varga has more stories than Heath Ledger's Joker? — Wyliepedia 08:42, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Because the secondary main idea of 3rd season of Fargo is influence of russian mafia and hackers to america. If Yuri presents Ukraine, Meemo presents Kazakhstan/China, and Varga must present Russia, but there are not strong proofs for that, only a smallest hint of Tchaikovsky's verse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.148.208.147 (talk) 15:45, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

"Varga must present Russia, but there are not strong proofs for that." I rest my case. — Wyliepedia 15:55, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

As there are not proofs at all even small hints that he is British. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.148.208.147 (talk) 16:42, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Yes there is: his British accent. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 18:50, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

You have said that this is "actor's natural accent". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.148.208.147 (talk) 19:03, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Peter and the Wolf is also Russian. Definitely a Russian motif this season. I have also thought it likely that Varga is Russian. It's not rare for a European to speak a second language at a native level. There are all sorts of ways that English can be learned to this level, especially if a person starts learning early in life. Jack N. Stock (talk) 20:26, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

All of this is speculation. Please provide a source. Power~enwiki (talk) 20:46, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Please read the thread. Speculation was mention of the nationality at first place. You did the right thing, that you removed it all. I've tried to do this many days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.148.208.147 (talk) 21:36, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

The Varga origin is answered in the finale, i.e. "unknown". — Wyliepedia 04:17, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Is Yuri Gurka Ukrainian?

Yes, of course it's "in-universe." Yuri Gurka is a fictional character who only exists in the TV series Fargo.

1. Episode 1, I contend that he is the same Yuri Gurka who, as a young man, murdered his girlfriend in Berlin in 1988 (this would make him 42 years old in 2010). The coincidence is too great that he is also a violent man with the same name.[7], [8] In episode 8, Gurka mentions the murdered girl from episode 1 by name, and provides the motive that she "talked too much." [9] [10]
2. Episode 8, Gurka is identified as a descendant of the genocidal murderers of Ukrainian Jews. You can read Ukrainian Auxiliary Police#Participation in the Holocaust for more information.[11]
3. Numerous reviews refer to Gurka as Ukrainian.[12], [13]

- Jack N. Stock (talk) 00:01, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

That's enough for a paragraph in the "Reception" section IMO, but I'm not sure why it needs to be in the character description. My take from your sources is that the show implies he's Ukrainian, but very deliberately never says it. Without having watched Season 3 yet, I can't comment further on the merits. Power~enwiki (talk) 06:20, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Episode 1, it seems to be right, but it's wrong. "Migrant from Ukraine" in 1988 would mean that this person migrant from specific part of USSR, or his last place of registration. This fact doesn't proof his nationality at all. There are was a lot of people from different nationalities in USSR who lived in Ukraine in 1988. Ukrainian Auxiliary Police was active in WW2, we can assume that his relatives were Ukrainians, just as the relatives of Vargo were Russian (because his grandmother read him Tsjoekovski), but you can't say for sure. Reviewers could take this false information from Wikipedia, which was previously untrustworthy. Those reeviews built on conjectures. These are not script writer's words.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.148.208.147 (talk) 6:02 am, June 17, 2017 (UTC−4)

That's a good counter-argument. As you say, in 1988 his nationality would have been Soviet, and he'd already migrated to East Germany, so he may have never lived in Ukraine as a nation. The weakness in point 2 is that his ancestor involved in the murder of Ukrainian Jews could also have been German, so point 1 might evidence a return to Germany. Although Gurka is a Ukrainian name, not a German name, that might not indicate a recent origin. Jack N. Stock (talk) 13:54, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

You both realize this is entirely original research, don't you? ----Dr.Margi ✉ 19:50, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Only if you ignore the seven citations that I provided, particularly where reviewers explicitly refer to Gurka as Ukrainian. Also, even if it was entirely OR, WP:OR states that "This policy of no original research does not apply to talk pages and other pages which evaluate article content and sources..." Jack N. Stock (talk) 00:47, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Michael Stuhlbarg is recurring?

I've been very confused as to why Michael Stuhlbarg is listed as recurring, even though he clearly plays one of the major characters. It's even weirder that Goran Bogdan is listed as the main cast, when he's had a smaller role than Stuhlbarg. Supposedly this is because in the billing, Stuhlbarg is listed as recurring, but that doesn't seem right at all. Could someone post a link to the billing as a reference? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.74.165 (talk) 05:20, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Listings here are taken from the episode credits given at the end of every episode. The main actors for each are shown individually without any designation (i.e. "starring"). Then crew credits are given, followed by the designated guest stars. Stuhlbarg has, so far, always been listed in the latter, thus "recurring" here. The recurring section fluctuates, based on the amount of appearances and not role size/screen time. — Wyliepedia 07:13, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

It doesn't make much sense, I agree, if we go by role size. Jeffrey Donovan drove a lot of action in S2 and appeared in all but one episode, but was billed as recurring. It's the way they seem to do it with these characters, and we have to list them the way the producers do. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 08:13, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

@Drmargi: you betcha! — Wyliepedia 10:16, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Order in credits is often contractual. Jack N. Stock (talk) 13:57, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Credits are a product of many factors. Billing and billing order may be contractual, yes. In this actor's case? Nah. He's not big enough for that. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 19:52, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

End date

@Radiphus: you can report anybody you want. Anyway, learn the difference between terms such as END DATE and END TIME first. The end date of the show is obviously today and that is simple as that. Asileb (talk) 16:15, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

No. At the time of these edits and this discussion, the final episode has not aired. Therefore, that means that the season is still airing. If you disagree with the usage of this parameter, please gain a consensus - dates and episode counts are only updated once the episode is released, per the consensus of the WikiProject Television. -- Alex^TW 16:25, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

The END DATE says nothing either an episode has been aired or not so. The parameter clearly specifies the end date of the show, and that is simple as that. Asileb (talk) 16:37, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Again, this is per the consensus from the members of the WikiProject Television. If you wish to change that consensus, then you will need to do so with a solid argument and reasonings. -- Alex^TW 16:55, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

The end date of the show can be seen on the episodes' table. The infobox describes the current state of the show's season, which is still airing. For example, Game of Thrones (season 7) doesn't even have an original release date, which will be added to the infobox parameters on July 16, 2017, after the first episode has been released. The "last aired" parameter will be added on August 27, after the release of the last episode of the season.
PS: I am not reporting "anybody i want". I intend to report someone who has already violated WP:3RR, if he/she doesn't accept the way wikipedia works.-  Radiphus  17:01, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

@Asileb: might I suggest that you wait about six more hours? — Wyliepedia 20:43, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

There was no reason to wait as explained above. My argument is clear and logical, the END DATE stands for END DATE, nothing more, nothing less. If the show concludes on June 21, the date is effective and still PRESENT right that day, regardless of hour. Asileb (talk) 21:04, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Why not wait until the last episode has aired? What's the rush? In any case, better to wait rather than WP:WAR! Jack N. Stock (talk) 21:58, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

From Template:Infobox television season: "While the season is airing, {{End date|present}} should be used." Jack N. Stock (talk) 23:28, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

All I can add is what everyone else has said: what's the damned rush? The policy is clear: we add the end date after the episode airs. The world won't come to an end in the meantime. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 00:04, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Fargo - Emmit and Ray Stussy.jpg

File:Fargo - Emmit and Ray Stussy.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a non-free use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

-- Marchjuly (talk) 07:53, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Why is Goran Bogdan listed as starring?

Goran Bogdan does not have a starring role - he seems to have been listed here as a mistake when he should be in the "recurring" section. As noted by another commenter, his character is smaller than Michael Stuhlbarg's and, I would argue, also Andy Yu's. I moved him into the recurring section but my edits were reversed - I think they should be reinstated. Source: show credits do not list him as starring, only listing the other four. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.2.196.20 (talk) 13:21, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

It all comes down to credits. The actor is billed in the "staring" billing block as opposed to a guest star. Drovethrughosts (talk) 13:26, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Yes but he is only listed in some episodes - e.g. He is listed in episodes 4, 5, 6 and 8 but not 3, 7, 9 or 10 so is a recurring star not a season star. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.2.196.20 (talk) 13:32, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

He is only credited when he appears, but is credited as starring, not a guest star. We (as viewers) don't decide who is starring or recurring, the credits do; and in this case, it's starring. Drovethrughosts (talk) 13:44, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Well it seems it's ambiguous to me but fair enough! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.2.196.20 (talk) 13:48, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

I see why you might be confused, but there really is nothing ambiguous about Bogdan's role in the series, as WP:TVCAST states that "main" cast members are determined by the series producers (not by popularity, screen time, or episode count). We don't get to make the distinction between main and recurring characters. -- (Radiphus) 14:50, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

I confirm that Goran Bogdan (a henchman who dies early in the series), has a decidedly supporting role. However, I do not understand why for three years now the falsity that this is not the case has to pass. --Kasper2006 (talk) 07:32, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Drovethrughosts: On this page you can see in detail the Main cast of Fargo 3 and the recurring cast (Bogdan considers that he is not even included in the recurring cast). If you wanted to change the section you could quote this note. On the contrary, what note would you quote to show that Bogdan is part of the Main cast?

Main cast

• Ewan McGregor as Emmit and Ray Stussy
• Carrie Coon as Gloria Burgle
• Michael Stuhlbarg as Sy Feltz
• Mary Elizabeth Winstead as Nikki Swango
• David Thewlis as V.M. Vargas​

Recurring cast

• Scoot McNairy as Maurice LeFay
• Jim Gaffigan as Donny Mashman
• Shea Whigham as Moe Dammick
• Karan Soni as Dr. Homer Gilruth
• Fred Melamed as Howard Zimmerman
• Thomas Mann as Thaddeus Mobley
• Hamish Linklater as Larue Dollars​ --Kasper2006 (talk) 07:56, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Are you seriously using a post on an internet forum by a random person as a source? Beyond it being irrelevant, that information is outdated anyway as it includes actors Jim Gaffigan and Karan Soni who never actually appeared in the third season. Goran Bogdan's role was unknown until the season premiered, so he was never listed until the season actually premiered. Per the end credits, he is billed as main cast; that is all that matters. Bogdan is billed in the same block as McGregor, Coon, Winstead, and Thewlis. Stuhlbarg, while having a major role, is still billed as a guest star; Stuhlbarg's cast announcement was as recurring, not main cast. The cast list on Fargo's MGM website (MGM being the main company that produces Fargo) reads: Ewan McGregor, Carrie Coon, Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Goran Bogdan, David Thewlis. The credits are all that matters and determins whether an actor is main cast or a guest star, not your personal opinion. It's that simple and there is no more discussion needed. Drovethrughosts (talk) 13:18, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. The impression is that, and this can be said by those who have seen the series, MGM insert random the names of the actors (as Imdb often does), but if you say that this is the case, I adapt --Kasper2006 (talk) 15:25, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

List of Fargo characters

A separate character page for Fargo is currently being developed at Draft:List of Fargo characters. Everyone is free to contribute to the page, and is also welcome to do so. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 16:16, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

E2 Re: "toss him off"

In much of the English speaking world, "toss him off" means to manually stimulate a male persons penis to climax. I don't think that is what was meant here. Accurate universal terms needed. 92.18.212.114 (talk) 05:10, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Replaced "toss" with "throw." I would have thought "a parking garage" made the meaning perfectly clear, but OK.

Billmckern (talk) 12:20, 17 April 2022 (UTC)