Talk:Fallen Angels (Myers novel)

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2020 and 18 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lal579.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:08, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended plot and theme sections

To whoever wrote this: damn fine job. A lot better than it used to be... --24.180.237.105 (talk) 15:44, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the stuff on the page has been copied word for word from Sparknotes.com. The Plot and the Themes, Motifs, and Symbols are identical to what is on Sparknotes. Is that legal? --Drew2794 (talk) 14:40, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Themes, Motifs, and Symbols section reads like an analysis in a school textbook or something. Can someone please remedy this? Because I suck at that kind of thing RenegadeSanta (talk) 22:08, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

if copied, which i will check, its a total copyright violation. If not, ALL analysis needs to be SOURCED from other critics and academics, and not just written here. usually, this level of detail is reserved for works with sourced, multiple commentary. until someone can take the time to find multiple criticisms, source them, and summarize them here, most of this will have to go as original research at best, copyvio at worst. bye bye.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:06, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, all copyright vio. good eye, but we can ALWAYS deleted confirmed copyright violations, without notice. all thats left is the character list. someone needs to reformat it and give brief character descriipts, along with a plot synopsis. no sense having a section called PLOT with no content.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:21, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Great work on the original plot synopsis and the removal of the character list, which i thought was excessive.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

This article is a target of vandalism, and should be semi-protected. not surprising considering the content and its likely effect on young readers (thats a positive comment, by the way. If literature stirs up feelings, thats good. We just cant be a repository for such emotional responses)Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:40, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Fallen Angels (Myers novel)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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The material covered in this book combines several themes found in every Hollywood movie for the last two decades covering Vietnam.

There are several discrepancies in the mechanics of the Army that Mr. Myers writes about. One is that he talks about the main character being in a regular light Infantry squad lead by a Lieutenant, Squads are lead by Sergeants, Lieutenants Lead Platoons. Mr. Myers stated that all the privates in the Squad were promoted to CPL. It doesn't work that way in the Army. Mr. Myers calls the M60 machine gun a 60 Caliber machine gun. It is a .308 Caliber, 7.62mm. The Army in 1967 called the M60's round the 7.62mm. Also the manner in which Mr. Myers repeatedly calls everyone's weapons "piece" is comical. Additionally Mr. Myers apparently did not himself perform any helicopter mission while in the service as his description of the helicopter operations in his book are nothing short of comical. In his book Mr. Myers' fantasy squad flies in and out of all combat operations. At one point he states that the "struts" of the Huey helicopter are designed to take the impact of landing. The Huey has permanently mounted hard, inflexible skids (Not Skis as Mr. Myers states in another passage). Door Gunners on Hueys almost always used M60 machine guns (7.62mm), in Mr. Myers’ world they used .50 caliber machine guns. Mr. Myers has the pilot at one point turn around and kick a man in the head who had just accidentally discharged his weapon when boarding during a "Hot LZ" extraction. Point one is that the pilots cannot just "turn around" and kick someone when they are in the pilot seat (physically impossible) and secondly the pilots would be too concerned with getting out of the area first. Also the helicopters have two doors and in the book they only have one. The claymore mine is not detonated by trip wire as Mr. Myers stated at one point. Additionally not every claymore mine emplaced by American soldiers was found by the Viet Cong and turned around towards American troops as Mr. Myers would have you believe. There are several more major discrepancies in this book but I have gone on long enough. The only reason I continued to read the book was for the comedy of Mr. Myers' lack of basic Army knowledge, particularly the Infantry that which is what he wrote about. Reading this book was like have a conversation about room clearing with a cook. This book is actually a discredit to the "Brothers" who served in the Viet Nam war. The characters in this book all seem very uneducated, ignorant and two dimensional. To call this book a great book of Viet Nam history is a lie. Whoever gave this book an award was neither knowledgeable on military matters nor knowledgeable on Vietnam. This award must have been given on the "good 'ole boy" system.

I would not ban this book from schools due to the language it contains. I would ban this book due to the major historical inaccuracies it contains.

Last edited at 13:49, 13 September 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 14:56, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Article Reconstruction Plan

Hi everyone,

I am planning on adding the following changes to the article in the next few days. First, I have decided to re-structure the article into the following sections: Lead, Background, Plot Summary, and Reception. I have decided to re-structure the article in this way because I feel like the current "Sequel and prequel" section can be easily tied into another section. Next, I plan on rewriting the Lead section to be representative of the following sections and to give a wider overview of the article than the current Lead does. I feel like the current Lead does not effectively cover the information covered in the rest of the sections. More specifically, my new Lead will include 3 brief descriptions of the following 3 sections. I will also be rewriting the "Influence of author's military experience on his writing" section by removing its current plagiarized information and including a wider overview of Myers' background as an author; I will also be re-naming the section to "Background" because I will be expanding beyond the author's military experience. For those of you who may not know, Walter Dean Myers is a very well-accomplished author and I strongly feel that a section about him would add a lot to the overall quality of the article. Additionally, I plan on rewriting the "Plot Summary" section to expand upon the current sentence in the section. I feel like the current state of the section does not include enough information to give the reader a solid idea of the plot. I have built out several paragraphs that will give the reader a much more thorough understanding of the novel's storyline. Lastly, I plan on rewriting the "Critical reception" section by including different kinds of reception that the novel has received. This section only addresses the positive reception that the novel has received and does not acknowledge the vast amount of negative reception that it has received. I have decided to re-name the section to "Reception" and it will include two main paragraphs that highlight perspectives from both proponents and critics of the novel.

If you have any comments or concerns about my current plans, please let me know. I hope you all agree with the content gaps that I noticed and support the changes that I intend to make so that the overall quality of the article can be significantly raised. Thanks, Lal579 (talk) 01:15, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]