Talk:Chocolate

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Chocolate article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6: 3 months

Chocolate was one of the Agriculture, food and drink good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 16, 2005	Good article nominee	Listed
June 9, 2007	Peer review	Reviewed
August 30, 2007	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
September 28, 2007	Good article reassessment	Delisted
May 20, 2008	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
May 26, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed
June 3, 2008	Peer review	Reviewed
June 10, 2008	Good article reassessment	Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

Food and drink Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink

Top

This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Food and Drink task list:

To edit this page, select here

Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink:

Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt
Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar
Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish
Participate in project-related deletion discussions.
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this.
Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here.
Provide photographs and images for Category:Wikipedia requested images of food
Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section

Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages.

Mesoamerica (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mesoamerica, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.MesoamericaWikipedia:WikiProject MesoamericaTemplate:WikiProject MesoamericaMesoamerica

Central America

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Central America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Central America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Central AmericaWikipedia:WikiProject Central AmericaTemplate:WikiProject Central AmericaCentral America

Indigenous peoples of the Americas Top‑importance

	Indigenous peoples of the Americas portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of the Americas, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Indigenous peoples of the Americas on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Indigenous peoples of the AmericasWikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of the AmericasTemplate:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of the AmericasIndigenous peoples of the Americas
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Indigenous peoples of North America Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Native Americans, Indigenous peoples in Canada, and related indigenous peoples of North America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Indigenous peoples of North AmericaWikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaTemplate:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaIndigenous peoples of North America
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Latin America Top‑importance

	Latin America portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Latin America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Latin America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Latin AmericaWikipedia:WikiProject Latin AmericaTemplate:WikiProject Latin AmericaLatin America
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Citation needed for "https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Chocolate#:~:text=A%202018%20report%20argued%20that%20international%20attempts%20to%20improve%20conditions%20for%20children%20were%20doomed%20to%20failure%20because%20of%20persistent%20poverty%2C%20the%20absence%20of%20schools%2C%20increasing%20world%20cocoa%20demand%2C%20more%20intensive%20farming%20of%20cocoa%2C%20and%20continued%20exploitation%20of%20child%20labor.", cannot find mentioned report. TitanFallout (talk) 11:04, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: I think it's references 160 and 163? NotAGenious (talk) 13:42, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TitanFallout Ok. BangladeshiEditorInSylhet (talk) 07:28, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thinking of a split

Hi all, I'm thinking of trying to broach whether a split is a good idea and how it would be done. The issue is chocolate and cocoa are two different concepts, but the article opens with "Chocolate or cocoa is a food made from roasted and ground cocoa seed kernels". Cocoa, according to how I understand it, refers more to the cocoa bean, in the various stages of being processed, particularly as a commodity. In British English, cocoa is what is referred to in American English as cacao. On future exchanges, "cocoa" is traded. Here is a quote from academics Carla Martin and Kathryn Sampeck:

In the Anglophone context, “cocoa” is used commonly in reference to the tree and the seed, and especially as a referent for the commodity once it has been sold or processed. An important caveat is that the use of the word “cacao” (instead of “cocoa”) is symbolically important in the niche, fine/specialty/craft cacao-chocolate community, where many see it as a return to the historical roots of the crop and a point of distinction from bulk commodity cocoa.

Chocolate generally refers to an end product. I think these concepts are obviously closely linked, particularly around the chocolate industry and chocolate making.

I'm not sure how a split would be done, but I think it's a) unhelpful to have them smushed into one article, especially without any effort at defining terms, and b) the first sentence is just flat out wrong for most uses of the term cocoa.

Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 16:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have slept on this issue, I apologize for not having this all laid out initially. While I am still confused, I think the page needs clarification, and to:

a) split up the "Processing" section into chocolate making and Cacao/cocoa processing, probably moving cacao/cocoa processing off the page entirely to a cocoa page. The ingredients for chocolate can include chocolate powder/liquor, sugar, milk and cocoa butter, and chocolate making is the process of combining these. I've rewritten the dark chocolate based on this idea of isolating chocolate making, see Dark chocolate#Manufacturing. Chocolate making should be its own page.

b) define cocoa. It is confusing to say in the first sentence that chocolate is also known as cocoa, and then refer to "Child labor in cocoa harvesting"; you cannot "harvest chocolate". Cocoa is used in a different way and should be differentiated.

c) likely get rid of the reference to cocoa in the lede. This may be a regional thing, but I don't hear people ask for "cocoa" when they want to eat chocolate. It refers to chocolate powder, which is just part of drinking chocolate (hot chocolate). This page does not discuss drinking chocolate. It is understood as eating chocolate, and types of chocolate has never included drinking chocolate. The extent to which chocolate as a drink is discussed, it is referred to as an ingredient/flavoring.

d) Move the page cocoa to cocoa (disambiguation)

e) Move the page cocoa bean to cocoa. The current lede is straight up incorrect;

1) Cocoa is not the same as cocoa beans, it is a more general concept. It refers to cacao in a context of production, and certainly not "the dried and fully fermented seed of Theobroma cacao". Cocoa powder is still considered cocoa, it is not still cocoa beans. You can still be "harvesting" cocoa, even without having dried and fermented it yet.

2) A lot of countries don't ferment cacao seeds, i.e., Indonesia, the third biggest producer. Are they not cocoa beans? There are a lot more issues with cocoa articles.

The articles are just too confusing and fuzzy. This is not entirely our fault: from an article in Confectionary News: "Leissle, an academic who has studied the chocolate industry for more than 20 years, says that even she struggles sometimes with the various nomenclature." I'm also very sorry for writing so much. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 08:35, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As the lede is abundantly linked (conspicuously overlinked, WP:OLINK) and the topics are closely related to chocolate overall, splitting parts of the article, including how it's made, to separate articles would create an undesirable WP:REDUNDANTFORK. Zefr (talk) 18:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Points well taken. I've made an effort to remove links from the lead and I won't split the chocolate making section off. I will start a conversation on cocoa bean about renaming to cocoa. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 03:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chocolate addiction merge

Following Talk:Chocolate/Archive_6#Merger_proposal, which merged Health effects of chocolate into Chocolate#Health effects. Chocolate addiction is very long, doesn't follow MEDRS, is quite silly and is a subcategory of Health effects of chocolate. Having it as a standalone page is UNDUE. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 04:39, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]