Talk:Belfast Celtic F.C.

Religion/Sectarianism

Shouldn't we explicitly say that this was the big Catholic team? And shouldn't we say this for other Northern Ireland teams, when appropriate? We discuss sectarianism straight out in Celtic F.C., for instance. john k 23:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

In terms of support Belfast Celtic was mainly Catholic but in terms of players and other staff it was mixed. It might be slightly misleading to describe them as the "big Catholic team" as in Scotland only Rangers can really be described teams representing one religion whereas in Northern Ireland many teams are closely associated with one religion.

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Belfast Celtic were the 'big Catholic team' that represented thousands of working class Roman Catholics in South/West Belfast, just as Linfield were the 'big Protestant team' a stones throw away. I see no harm in this being mentioned as it was a factior that distinctly defined both teams.

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It would be more accurate to use the terms "nationalist" and "unionist". Celtic was not a Catholic team - there were many Protestant supporters not to mention players and staff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Browalfrid (talk • contribs) 13:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

POV

Terms like glory days and the mighty are pov and we be removed from this article (Gnevin 12:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

Why is it POV to refer to a team by its nickname and in this context the glory days is used to stop the article from repeating itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.208.214.206 (talk • contribs)

Its not pov to say at the start

Belfast Celtic to which the nickname The Mighty was often applied.

As your telling the reader that this was a name given by supporters but to say the mighty in the middle of the article is pov as your saying Belfast Celtic are mighty but i might not think so or someone else and hence it's opinion.

As for glory days it's your opinion again ,to me Belfast Celtic are just a other soccer team and i don't consider many soccer teams having glory days but i was to make a list it would be completely different too yours and so yet again is pov (Gnevin 14:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

Many articles refer to the teams nickname in the middle and it could in no way be called POV. The purpose is to make it easier to read. There is no way anyone could say that in this context we are leading the reader to believe the team are somehow mightier than others.

As for glory days celtic park went from a being a major football stadium that was a social centre for its community in terms of social activities to being a shopping centre.

You aren't making the article neutral you are making it dull and unreadable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.208.214.206 (talk • contribs)

Please provide a link where a team nickname is in the middle of the article and isn't explicitly spelt out to be their nickname

It's still POV glory days to Liverpool would mean the 70's European cup etc , where as with Oxford it could be a cup win . Its too unclear and subjective (Gnevin 14:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

Also can you please sign as listed below (Gnevin 14:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

TYhe Celtic fc article includes many referencs that you will no doubt find POV, it just happened to be the first I clicked on.

And the glory days refers to all the whole history of the club, which lets remember no longer exists so in this context its a a very suitable term.

If you still disagree how do we sort it out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.208.214.206 (talk • contribs)

I strongly disagree with the use of glory days its totally pov ,but i would agree to the comprise of spelling out near the start

• Belfast Celtic to which the nickname The Mighty was often applied and using the italics version The Mighty when ever it is referred to later in the article.

I'd suggest asking some from either WP:WPF or WP:NIR to mediate this dispute if we can't agree(Gnevin 15:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

OK we can agree on the correct terminology for the mighty. We should get someone from where you suggested to decide on the other point.

"Glory days" is not a NPOV term and should not be used unless it is a term that has been generally used in reliable sources to describe a period, and in that case it should be referenced. Consider using "the most successful period" or another term that is more NPOV and that also better describes the situation. Unless it is perfectly clear in the article that the period actually was the most successful (if it was the only period the club won anything, for example), such a statement should be referenced anyway. – Elisson • T • C • 22:29, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. The first step here would be to WP:CITE some reliable sources for the disputed phrases. The pages Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words and Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms also give useful advice. Oldelpaso 23:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Have asked at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#Request_of_meditation (Gnevin 22:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

Okay, I'm here, what's the problem?? Rakuten06 23:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Belfast Celtic spent as long in all ireland league than they did in a strictly northern irish league. As they were a successful team in both setups it is only fair that the term Irish Football remains as it describes the island as a whole rather than a setup that the team spent less than half its existence in.

Sign

Please don't forget to As a courtesy for other editors, it is a Wikipedia guideline to sign your talk page and user talk page posts. To do so simply add four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your comments and your user name or IP address and the date will be automatically added along with a timestamp. Signing your comments helps people to find out who said something and provides them with a link to your user/talk page (for further discussion). For further info read Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. Thank you. (Gnevin 14:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC))

Flags

• Flags should be based on international team players played for.
  • Tom Aherne, Tommy Breen, Jackie Brown, Jimmy McAlinden, Billy McMillan and Jackie Vernon were all dual Irish international footballers so should therefore have both flags ( ) should be next to name.
  • Louis Bookman and Patrick O’Connell, although both southern Irish only ever played for Ireland national football team (1882-1950) and should have next to names
  • Although John Feenan was a Northerner he only ever played for the Republic of Ireland national football team. Djln--Djln (talk) 18:14, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
    • I think the Ulster Banner should be included for those from Northern Ireland for historical purposes because at the time in question, The Ulster Banner was the flag of Northern Ireland The C of E (talk) 17:41, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Jimmy Jones

Jimmy Jones broke his legs when he vountarily jumped into the terracing from the elevated pitch at Windsor Park. Alex Russell the Linfield goalkeeper offered to accompany him from the pitch but Jones declined his offer.I was there. 94.197.151.79 (talk) 18:56, 21 November 2011 (UTC)ref></ref>

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

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Match against "Scotland" on 29 May 1949

The match on 29 May 1949 was not against the Scotland national team. It was part of a North American tour by an S.F.A. XI side. See the webpage ( http://www.rsssf.com/tablesb/britishfatours.html ) for an explanation of what the Scottish FA XI was. As the webpage says, "The touring teams varied in strength over the years - on some occasions the teams were virtually identical to the full national teams in terms of personnel, but it must be emphasized that even in those cases, the matches were not recognized as full internationals, and no caps were awarded." The Scottish FA XI sides (like their English, Welsh and Irish FA counterparts) went on tours, usually abroad, which sometimes included quite a number of matches. Unlike the national teams, they played mainly against club and local representative sides; only occasionally playing international teams. When the FA XIs went overseas, the tours were sometimes wrongly advertised as visits by the full international teams of Scotland, England or Wales and their opponents often believed that this was who they were playing against. Some countries recorded official international matches against 'England' or 'Scotland' that were actually against English FA and Scottish FA XI sides but then removed them in the 1980s, when they discovered that their opponents had not actually been international teams.. I suspect that the Australian national team were quite pleased to be able to expunge from their official record their 17-0 defeat by 'England' on 30 June, 1951! The exception to this rule is the USA's match against 'Scotland' on 19 June, 1949 on Randall's Island. This involved the same Scottish FA XI squad that had lost to Belfast Celtic three weeks earlier at the same stadium. For some reason, the U.S. Football Association continues to list this as an official international match against Scotland. I fear that there is little point in trying to correct the misinformation in this article because there are still many published sources that wrongly list Scottish FA and English FA XI games as Scotland and England full international matches; which would give users cause for dispute and 'edit wars'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.209.194 (talk) 17:04, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

Scotland "never played a club side since" losing to Belfast Celtic

I have removed from the article the statement that Scotland have never played a club side since losing to Belfast Celtic because, although the cited source makes this claim, it is erroneous. As can be seen on this page -Scotland national football team results (unofficial matches) - Scotland/the SFA XI have played 19 matches against club sides since the one against Belfast Celtic. They played Sunderland AFC in 1953; Kilmarnock, Hibernian and Falkirk in 1954; Rangers, Heart of Midlothian, IFK Eskilstuna and Hibernian in 1958; Tottenham Hotspur in 1964; Leicester City in 1966; Coventry City in 1977; Rangers and Middlesbrough in 1978; Celtic and Grupo Despotivo Torralta (twice) in 1982; Los Angeles Heat and Hollywood Kickers in 1986; and Dundee United in 2002. Of those 19 matches, they won 10, drew 4 and lost 5. Of Scotland's 3 matches against club sides before the Belfast Celtic match, they won 2 and lost 1. Scotland's total record (as detailed on the Wikipedia article linked above) against club sides: won 12, drew 4, lost 7. 188.28.134.20 (talk)