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DYK nomination

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I need to thank sroc for an outstanding contribution to this article and corresponding discussion—this copyeditor deserves some kind of recognition for this, as he/she has gone above and beyond the "call of duty", so to speak.--Soulparadox (talk) 07:45, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Soulparadox. And thanks for your contributions as well. My hope is that we can clear up the concerns over the reliable source questions and get Briggs on the Wikipedia main page for one day. —[Mr] sroc (talk) 10:44, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources

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Some issues were flagged on my talk page by 3family6 and Kudpung about some of the sources in this article not meeting Wikipedia's policies for reliable sources.

In response, I have deleted all citations pointing to YouTube, Facebook and the Rapper Tag Tumblr blgo.

The article contains the following references to Briggs' own accounts:

  • Twitter:
    • Briggs has fathered a daughter named Kora Belle Briggs.
    • "ShepLife" is a term that Briggs has used on Twitter…
  • Instagram:
    • He has a tattoo of his daughter on his upper left arm.
  • Tumblr:
    • It was his first time overseas.

Although citing self-published sources is "largely not acceptable", there is an exception in WP:SELFSOURCE that:

Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, especially in articles about themselves, without the requirement that they be published experts in the field, so long as:
  1. the material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim;
  2. it does not involve claims about third parties (such as people, organizations, or other entities);
  3. it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject;
  4. there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity;
  5. the article is not based primarily on such sources.
These requirements also apply to pages from social networking sites such as Twitter, Tumblr, and Facebook.

I believe that the above references are acceptable on this basis, namely:

  1. The referenced facts (i.e., that Briggs' had a daughter, that he used the term "ShepLife" on Twitter, etc.) are not self-serving;
  2. They do not involve claims about third parties (other than the fact that his daughter was born, which is uncontroversial);
  3. They do not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject;
  4. There is no reasonable doubt as to their authenticity (they are made by the subject himself, are not disputed, and some are verified by additional citations);
  5. The article is not based primarily on such sources (4 out of ≈34 footnotes).

In addition, even with these references excluded, the subject meets the notability criteria for musicians and ensembles. In particular, Briggs:

  • "Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works";
  • Will later this year have "released two or more albums on a major label" (Golden Era);
  • "Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network" (Triple J);
  • Has "been nominated for a major music award" (Deadly Awards in 2011 and 2012); [inserted —sroc (talk) 05:03, 9 September 2012 (UTC)][reply]
  • "Has been a featured subject of a substantial broadcast segment across a national radio or TV network" (Message Stick on ABC TV).

Can we now remove the "reliable sources" tag and have the DYK nomination re-approved? —sroc (talk) 04:46, 8 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I'm fine with those sources. The ones I have a problem with are "G&T", "AllAussieHipHop", rhythm & poetry, "TheOrangePress", and "Luna Digital". Can you please demonstrate why these are reliable? (For instance, author has work published by a third-party, the source is published by a third-party source, the source is cited in news articles, etc.)--¿3family6 contribs 22:27, 8 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure the best way to demonstrate that these are reliable sources.
Starting with AllAussieHipHop, I am aware that this is a well-respected source in the Australian hip-hop community. It's hard to find links back to the website as Google's "link:" operator only shows a tiny random sample of all website link-backs, but I did find references to it from:
Rhythm & Poetry, which is linked to from some of the above sites, also links back to AllAussieHipHop. I note that AllAussieHipHop has also been referenced in other Wikipedia articles.
I will try to dig up information on the other sources when I get a chance, but hopefully this will help to quell the concerns over AllAussieHipHop at least (and possibly Rhythm & Poetry, too). —sroc (talk) 04:57, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Luna Digital/Luna Magazine editor Karin Pearson, who wrote the cited article, is also a writer for RT Advertising and Magicorp Australia, amongst other credentials in the media.[1][2]
TheOrangePress articles are sometimes re-posted on Seek Stumble Listen Live. DJ Nick La Rosa, who writes for TheOrangePress, also co-hosts the radio show "Unknown Pleasures" on East Side FM in Sydney.[3]
Unfortunately, the site that I used to find link-backs has a limit on how many searches you can do a day, which I have now reached. —sroc (talk) 05:26, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have dug up some info about Gifted & Talented (G&T), which runs as a website[4], magazine[5] and iPhone app[6]. It has been reported on by Retrospect Galleries in NSW, 4ZZZ FM in Queensland and Joy French Gallery. Matthew Dunn, who wrote the piece on Briggs, is a journalist and editor-in-chief of G&T.[7]
Hope that helps! —sroc (talk) 13:56, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, that looks fine, go ahead and remove the unreliable sources template. I commend you on your effort to improve this article.--¿3family6 contribs 17:50, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Great, thanks! Are you able to re-approve the DYK nomination now? —sroc (talk) 18:01, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rapper or MC?

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I changed the wording in the lead from "MC" (which linked to Master of Ceremonies) to the more appropriate rapper (which refers to "MCing" in the lead of that article). I think that this "rapper" is a more appropriate term than "Master of Ceremonies" in this context, and is in line with other hip-hop artists. Indeed, the section Master of Ceremonies#Hip hop refers to artists (e.g., Kool G Rap and MC Hammer) whose articles describe them as "rappers" but not "MCs".

Thanks again to Soulparadox for the top-notch editing. Keep it coming! —sroc (talk) 01:33, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Most fitting sroc; I'm glad someone is double-checking :-) Thanks for the kind words.--Soulparadox (talk) 03:22, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
On closer inspection, Master of Ceremonies#Hip hop and rapper seem to overlap. The former already linked to the latter in the first line. I've added a reciprocal link from the latter to the former in a hatnote. Keen to see whether anyone has any better ideas for amalgamating them or if it's OK as it is. —sroc (talk) 06:21, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just noticed that Soulparadox reverted "rapper" to "MC" following the above discussion, and was just wondering if there was a reason for this (the edit summary simply says "Term correction"). In fact, Briggs said in a recent interview that he prefers to be known as a rapper than a hip-hop MC: "If you don't wanna call it rap music, fuck off. I make rap music. R-A-P. ... I'm not a hip-hop purist. ... I make rap music. Rap! With a capital P. RA-PUH!" (from 13:52 in the recording) and he emphasised this part of the interview in a Facebook status. —sroc 💬 13:31, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, no, that wasn't me. I made the change before the discussion in April 2012, but I have left it alone since then, as I don't have any issue with MC. My most recent update was in his "Personal life" section after a recent interview.--Soulparadox (talk) 03:32, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's odd. This link from the page history says you made the change on 24 April 2013. Oh, well, as long as you're happy with "rapper", I've changed it back. —sroc 💬 06:15, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

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Finally got an Infobox up for Briggs, but it really needs someone to add an image. Also, I am unsure of his birthdate and have used the year that his myspace page was published for the "Years active" section, as I have no other reference.--Soulparadox (talk) 07:04, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ask and ye shall receive!
Well done on the latest edits, too. —sroc (talk) 08:51, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Perfect sroc.--Soulparadox (talk) 12:24, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We have another option:
—sroc 💬 10:16, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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