Talk:Awan (tribe)

President of pakistan Arif Alvi is also Awan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.8.128.148 (talk) 06:46, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

Marg

Mārg̲: A Magazine of Architecture and Art, Volumes 1-2

1946, page 32:

"The people of this area are 90 per cent Muslims of the Awan tribe. They are an independent and proud set, claiming unmixed descent from a tribe of Arab invaders."

The above can be included in the main article.

QutbShah (talk) 21:51, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Issue with a passage

Christophe Jaffrelot says: The Awan deserve close attention, because of their historical importance and, above all, because they settled in the west, right up to the edge of Baluchi and Pashtun territory. Legend has it that their origins go back to Imam Ali and his second wife, Hanafiya. Historians describe them as valiant warriors and farmers who imposed their supremacy on the Janjua in part of the Salt Range and established large colonies all along the Indus to Sind, and a densely populated center not far from Lahore.

What historians in particular have claimed this? Can anyone explain where in particular in salt range Awans have a supremacy over Janjuas? The source Christophe Jaffrelot is some amateur journalist from France with no formal training in history or anthropology to be making such tall claims. I am requesting people with editing rights to remove this passage unless another source can back this up.

On the other hand, the Shahpur district (which included Khushab) Gazetteer of 1917, page number 94, had the following to say about Janjuas living in the neighborhood of Awans, which goes against the assertion of any perceived supremacy:

"North of Khushab towards the Jhelum border are three villages with 16,393 acres owned by the Janjuhas, a tribe found chiefly further north in Jhelum and Rawalpindi. They are admittedly of high rank and claim a Rajput descent, but are more probably the descendants of the aristocracy among the Awans, just as the Rajputs are the aristocracy of the Jats and the Khanzadas of the Meos in Gurgaon." 195.252.220.207 (talk) 03:49, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

I suggest you look at the 1883 Tribal Map of Jhelum District (which includes areas of Chakwal), issued by the British-Raj government of the time, apart from Kot Sarang and Dharabi villages, the rest of the western portion of Jhelum district was dominated by the Awan tribe.

Leading Awan families were considered nobility depending on the areas they ruled or had control over in the Rawalpindi and Jhelum districts. Also, their Chiefs are mentioned in the Jhelum Gazetteer.

A few sources to enlighten you:

"He does not look on himself as a Rajput first and then as a Gakhar or a Janjua or an Awan, but as a member of one of these tribes first, and then as Sahu or as Rajput, which entitles him to a certain social position" (Wikeley, J.M. (1915) 'Punjabi Musalmans' page 4).

From the 18th to the 20th centuries, 'Sahu' term became synonymous with those families from aristocratic backgrounds and meant a "...gentle lifestyle of hawks, horses and servants" (Young, Tan Tai (2005). The Garrison State: Military, Government and Society in Colonial Punjab, 1849–1947. page 82)

"...the chief tribes, such as the Gakkars, Janjuas, Awans, etc., are "Sahu", though not necessarily all Rajputs. The "Sahu" will, however commonly call himself Rajput, whilst the zamindar is called Jat." (Ranken, G.P. (1895). Notes on Pathan of the Pathan Recruiting district. page 8). QutbShah (talk) 22:20, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

PS: What kind of references are those? Malik Muhammad Sarwar? Now we will take the word of random Awans as history or facts? Awans never "displaced" Janjuas from the Soon Sakesar region, they still have multiple villages there where they were perceived by British colonialists to be the "aristocracy" compared with the peasant Awans. The main fortress of Soon valley, the Akrand fort, was also controlled by a Janjua chief named Raja Taatar Khan before the Sikhs displaced them from it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.210.107.129 (talk) 23:12, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Just because he Malik in his name doesn't mean he is from the Awan tibe. If you are are truly from that area/region, you would know that the 'Malik' title is used by all landholding tribes including Rajputs. QutbShah (talk) 22:23, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

I have read Jhelum gazetteer and a whole series of books on the topic including Baburnama, ain-e-akbari, etc. Janjuas never numerically dominated in western Chakwal and Attock districts, and even in Rawalpindi and Jhelum, they are the minority. They simply levied the populations living there according to Baburnama. The british did speculate that Janjua rule collapsed in those areas after their "subjects turned on them", however, the real reason was probably Akbar handing over that entire area to the Gakhars. In all likelihood, it was the Gakhars who evicted Janjuas from those regions rather than the locals rebelling.

As for Awans being a socially dominant clan in those areas, that's true and cannot be disputed, however, suggesting that they have some sort of supremacy over Janjuas is pushing it, hence my issue with the statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.210.107.129 (talk) 18:22, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

"Subjects turned on them" is so vague, that it can be any tribe or set of peoples.

Janjuas have been losing estates and kingdoms since the time of Mahmud of Ghazni, the loss of land accelerated under the time of Sultan Hathi Khan Gakkhar and the arrival Babur to the sub-continent.

Also,to write off Christophe Jaffrelot as an amateur journalist is disingenuous, his particular subject field is the Indian sub-continent including its politics and history.

Supremacy can have a number of meanings and connotations, one of which, is having dominance (through numbers). Even though that is up for a debate regarding, how the Awan tribe can have so many large numbers. QutbShah (talk) 20:04, 24 January 2025 (UTC)

1: Jhelum gazetteer speculates the "subjects" in question were the tribes paying tribute to Janjuas described in Baburnama. Those tributaries could include Awans and Dhanni tribes, whom Babur referred to as Jats in his diary. However, it is well clear Awans were already there in the salt range/potohar region during Babur's arrival. Based on Babur's descriptions alone, they could have been one of the tribes paying tribute to Janjuas or Gakhars.

2: Janjuas were not contemporaries of Mehmud of Ghazni. Our family trees do not go that far back. The first mention of Janjuas living in salt-range happened during the time of Delhi sultanates. Loss of land did occur under Hathi Gakhar, however, a Janjua noble named Malik Darwesh Khan is said to have defeated both Hathi Gakhar and his cousin Sarang Khan, chasing them up to their stronghold of Dhangali. When Hamayun returned from his exile, Sultan Adam Gakhar requested his support against Janjuas which suggests Gakhar expansion was ultimately checked by the Janjuas.

3: Christophe Jaffrelot is more a regional, french language journalist. He is not a mainstream international journalist by any shot. It appears only Awans know him in Pakistan, some of whom might even have helped him write his book which I haven't read. However, it is highly unlikely he spent enough time in rural Potohar, salt-range etc., hence a general lack of experience can be assumed.

4: Supremacy is not ambiguous terminology. Numerical superiority generally does not imply supremacy. For example, we cannot claim there was an African supremacy in apartheid South Africa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.210.107.130 (talk) 23:12, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

1. You are speculating and your statement is absolute conjecture. No where in history does Babur equate Awan with Jutts. Even to this day, there are many tribes and their offshoot clans based in the Salt-Range from various backgrounds and lineages.

2. Janjuas claim lineage from Hindu Shahi Dynasty and even further back to Arjuna. Just because your family documents are limited, it doesn't mean the rest of Janjuas families have limited records or manuscripts. Malik Darwesh Khan was a contemporary of Akbar and not Babur and Sultan Hathi Khan Gakkhar was defeated by a number of generals of Babur who came with him via Afghanistan. Sultan Adam Khan Gakkhar defeated the Janjuas of Tope Mankiala (Rawalpindi) due to their rebellion, which he put down, amongst Gakkhars, Awans also helped the Gakkhars in putting this rebellion down.

3. Chris Jaffrelot is just a "journalist", a quick google-search will show that he is a professor at King's College London in the field of Indian Politics and Sociology.

4. Han Chinese dominated their local counterparts due to their sheer numbers. QutbShah (talk) 13:39, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

President of pakistan Arif Alvi

Ex president of pakistan arif alvi is A.wan 61.8.128.148 (talk) 06:48, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 February 2025

ADD THIER PUNJABI ETHNICTY WarriorBlood1 (talk) 15:16, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Kline • talk • contribs 15:09, 18 February 2025 (UTC)