Talk:Château of Arenberg

Copyvio

The initial version of this rticle seems to be verbatim from website. I reworded it to try to avoid copyvio.

Moved to Arenberg Château

Hello. I moved this page to Arenberg Château because it is a château, not a castle, which is a false friend. -Oreo Priest ^talk 14:11, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately Arenberg Chateau is not good English, and it is not called that by English speakers. How about Château d'Arenberg, if you feel that Arenberg Castle is really intolerable? Jsmith1000 (talk) 13:08, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Do you live in Leuven? Would you happen to know what English speakers actually call it there? (For my part, the answer to both of those questions is no.) And let's leave the page where it is for the moment, pending the completion of the discussion at Talk:List of castles in Belgium. My feeling is that it might very well be moved. Oreo Priest ^talk 18:21, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Kindly drop the attitude. I am a native English speaker. "X Château" is not how we customarily use the word "château" - (e.g.) Château de Chenonceau. As to the "wider debate" I have already contributed to it. Perhaps you should have followed your own advice and discussed the matter before making this unsatisfactory move (which I note you have already had to edit once for the spelling error). Jsmith1000 (talk) 22:04, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I've just seen your reply at the broader discussion and will make any further response there.Jsmith1000 (talk) 09:30, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

No offence or attitude was intended! The first two questions were asking if you might have had special insight (which would have been very helpful! I sadly don't have that insight myself.) but if not, it's certainly no problem! As for the discussion, in my defence, I moved this page before opening the wider discussion, and I am by no means certain this is the best title. I also hope you'll share your thoughts on my proposal there so the two of us could put forward a final proposal for vetting by everyone else. Cheers, Oreo Priest ^talk 15:11, 3 October 2012 (UTC) Edit: Re-reading my original post, it does seem like hostile interrogation. But that's never what I meant by it! Sorry for any misunderstanding. Oreo Priest ^talk 15:17, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry to have taken offence where there was none intended. Thank you very much for clearing it up! I'd be happy if we could find a stable solution to the whole problem of what best to call these buildings.Jsmith1000 (talk) 21:38, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

'Arenberg Château' is a complete made up name and not used outside Wikipeia. If Castle is not a good title that I suggest we use the official name. But actually Arenberg Castle is not a wrong name. Oreo Priest may think that castle and Chateau are false friends. But in reality Arenberg Castle is used (see this official source. In French, Dutch there is no distinction between castle and château. They are practically the same words so I find it a bit artificial to split up. . --Wester (talk) 21:00, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

There was an extensive discussion about this at Talk:List of castles in Belgium, with sadly no consensus. 'Castle' is certainly used, but it's erroneous. Regardless, I support your move of the page to 'Kasteel', but next time please seek consensus, especially when it's been discussed before. Oreo Priest ^talk 22:10, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

The literal translation of 'kasteel' is castle. So to name Kasteel van Arenberg 'Arenberg Castle' is not wrong. And lot's of sources use 'Arenberg Castle'. --Wester (talk) 22:15, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps 'Arenberg Castle' would not be wrong as a translation, but arguably terming it a castle would not be right as the present structure appears to have no elements of fortification. I quite like the distinction in French between château-fort and château. The first is a castle in the English sense of the word, and the latter closer to a country house, which would be applicable to Arenberg. Of course, the application of the terminology – whether English or French – is not consistent, and where a case is unambiguous the -fort aspect is often dropped (most likely for simplicity of a sort), for example Château de Gisors rather than Château-fort de Gisors.

Anyway, Kasteel van Arenberg seems like a decent name for this article. Nev1 (talk) 22:33, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

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