Talk:Amon Göth/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs) 06:10, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll get to this shortly.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 06:10, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Passing comments for WP:POLAND: 1) Hmmm, there should be an explanation on how his custody passed from US to Poland. 2) Pl wiki has somewhat off a different take/stress in certain issues, namely a) it discusses his corruption case in more detail, making a valid point that his theft was of such scale that even the relatively tolerant German Nazi authorities had to take note and 2) describes his diagnose with mental illness as a trick to avoid being seriously sentenced, and that he resided at the luxury health sanatorium at Bad Tölz (something our article does not mention). I'd suggest that those issues should be expanded upon before this article is GA'ed. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:51, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Piotrus. The article on the Polish wiki is without sources, so is of no help in improving this one. I can cite that he was extradited to Poland, and will add that right now. -- Diannaa (talk) 13:16, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't mean you should cite the pl wiki article. Rather that it suggests our research is incomplete here, as it is unlikely the pl wiki article is based on somebody's OR. In either case, I think the article should be expanded with regard to his SS trial. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 18:10, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I know you didn't mean that, Piotrus. and all I meant is that the Polish article does not give us any leads on further sources to develop the article. The information about Bad Tölz may have come from this blog, but where they got it from I do not know. Of course we cannot cite the blog. -- Diannaa (talk) 18:20, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Piotrus, please could you explain your assertion that the pl wiki article can be assumed not to be based on OR when if it is completely lacking in sources? I find myself rather nonplussed by this. I'm sure you're right, as Diannaa knows what you're talking about. I, however, do not know what you're talking about. (I do know where Goeth spent most of his war years, obviously.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:50, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My point was that it is unlikely somebody invented those facts, so somewhere out there there should be a reliable source for those facts. Now, I am not going to object to this being GAed if this is not addressed - I just wanted to signal this for the future (probably an issue for FA-level review). G'luck, and ping User:Sturmvogel 66 - time to get this show on the road. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:43, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More passing comments. Article relies heavily on one source "Crowe 2004" using template:Sfn. Meanwhile, the Wikipedia Help:Shortened footnotes recommends a different markup in this sort of situation. Please consider reformatting the bottom sections to conform with our popular standards:
==Notes== {{notelist}}
==Citations== {{reflist}}
==References== {{refbegin}} {{refend}}
and drop the superfluous section title: Biography (Bibliography ?) Many remaining sources are used only once and do not need the bloated {{sfn}} double-double at all. Please see Template:Notelist#Example for the recomended usage of these three templates together. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 17:53, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Okey dokey, thanks for catching this error. -- Diannaa (talk) 18:02, 28 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Don't normally see so many comments on articles that I'm reviewing, but that's OK.

Link Munich, SS-SturmbannY
Be sure to use pp. for multi-page references.Y
Is there any explanation why he was able to live in Austria after quitting the Party? I presume that he was still a wanted man after escaping custody in 1934. And do you know when quit the party and returned to Austria?
- He temporarily left the SS but not the Nazi Party in 1934 and resumed activities for the party in 1937. I have made a correction.
Was he forced to leave Austria when he rejoined the party in 1937?
- Crowe (p 220-221) says he smuggled goods from Germany into Austria, but does not show him having a permanent residence there. He lived in Munich from 1934 to 1937 (I had this wrong before and it's fixed now). Let me know please if this section still needs work.
Already know this: He served in this capacity for six months.Y
This is better rendered as "Goeth was assigned to the SS-Totenkopfverbände" Goeth was appointed an SS officer of the SS-TotenkopfverbändeY
Do we know if the charges against Goeth in 1944 were actually true, in whole or in part? They sound like the sort of thing used against people who've fallen out of favor in dictatorships. If not, it's no big deal, but I am curious.
- Crowe emphasises that the party felt the charge that he allowed prisoners access to camp records, including personnel files, was the most important. That charge was true, as his secretary (Mietek Pemper) testified that it was so, and he was in a position to know. Goeth had RM 80,000 ($32,000) cash on his person when he was arrested (Crowe p 355) so yeah, he was likely also stealing, as were many Nazi officials.
Fix the spelling of Touchstone and the capitalization of the series title in Roberts.Y hope this is right
Duplicate links for Hauptsturmführer, Obersturmführer, Krakow.Y
I don't think that the license for File:Amon Göth at his balkony Płaszów 1943.jpg is appropriate since it's only been 70 years since it was taken and the photographer lived into the 1960s according to the description.
- The photo was taken by Raimund Titsch and sold to Pfefferberg in the 1960s. Pfefferberg turned the collection over to the USHMM in the 1960s, and they are now the copyright holders. I am going to take it out, as we have the mug shots, and the shot on the balcony is readily accessible elsewhere.
  - USHMM released it to Wikipedia under GFDL Free Documentation License; see OTRS ticket no. 2007071910012533. Confirmed. — Poeticbent talk 15:17, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - Then somebody fix the license and restore it to the article.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 16:29, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      - It looks like only text is released under license, not images. I have asked an OTRS member to look at the ticket and should hear back in the next few hours. Thanks Sturmvogel for reviewing. We lose an image and gain some corrections to the prose, a fair trade I think. -- Diannaa (talk) 17:47, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        True, but it is a good image and improves the article, IMO, if we can use it.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 18:30, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No dabs and external links are fine.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 04:25, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]