Talk:9 to 5: Days in Porn

Interviewees

Including a few of the 77 individuals who were interviewed for this documentary for context is per Film MOS. The first reversion by Hullaballo Wolfowitz of the per-consensus inclusion of some of these interviewees used the summary "unreliably sourced at best, appears to associate similarly named persons outside field with porn participants) ".[1] Through his summary, it appear that he has no actual familiarity with the documentary itself and has made no good faith effort to review any of the many sources available online for verification of these individual's participation. I reverted his deletion, with a summary that the documentary itself is suitable for sourcing the interviewees. [2] He reverted yet again, now using a summary "blp issues not addressed." As the individuals are verifiable as being interviewed for this documentary, there is no "blp issue" to address. If he researches and offers a source stating that one of the credited cast listed were not in the film, he is welcome to remove that one. I again reverted his undiscussed deletions and explained very clearly that the individuals are verifiable.[3]. After which, I am bringing this to the talk page. I invite editors who have contibuted to the article over many months to comment. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 01:53, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Stop playing with your vuvuzela, Michael; you're just going to keep embarassing yourself. You can noisily rant all you want about The Big Bad Wolfowitz, but you're the one who hasn't done his homework. I spotchecked several of the links on this lousy list, and two of three proved spurious. Is Aidan Kelly, 70-year old poet and writer on Wiccan subjects, really in this film? Could it possibly be that the article, as linked, confuses him with the nonnotable Aiden Kelly, who turns out to have been married to one of the porn performers listed as interviewed? Is Lorelei Lee, professional athlete/entertainer really in this film? Or does the article confuse her with the undistinguished porn performer Lorelei Lee, who with a similar lack of imagination lifted her pseudonym from Gentlemen Prefer Blondes? Could it possibly be that when I said, as you quoted, the list "appears to associate similarly named persons outside field with porn participants" that I had "actual familiarity" with the matter at issue? The problem of such bad links in porn related articles is pestilential; I've removed hundreds of such links myself, and it took a team of editors months to do the cleanup on List of male performers in gay porn films when the issue as forced there. This laundry list is unsourced and, as it stands, demonstrably inaccurate, and your edit warring to reinstate is grossly inconsistent with applicable policy and with responsible editing generally. Find something constructive to do. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:01, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

List cleanup is welcome, and thank you for pointing us such problems. A total list removal however is not the way to go. Also please be a bit more civil in your interactions with M.Q.Schmidt --Cyclopia^talk 17:05, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

It's an unreferenced list containing BLP violations, and it adds no encyclopedic value to the short list of more notable interviewees in the text. So it should go. As for civility, Michael led off with unfounded accusations of a lack of good faith etc, and merited a strong response (as well as an independent civility warning, I would hope). When an editor behaves badly, pointing out the extent of bad behavior is not uncivil. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:12, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

It's referenced in the movie itself, see above. BLP violations can be removed without removing all the list. That "adds no encyclopedic value" is only your opinion. --Cyclopia^talk 17:17, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Agree. I have reverted to the version containing the list. --Cyclopia^talk 16:12, 15 July 2010 (UTC)\

Agree. An individual BLP violation is to be either removed, properly wikilinked, or unlinked if no article on the subject exists. THAT fixes the individual problem. Kind of simple. There is absolutely no need to remove entire blocks of contextual information when one or two simply tweaks would have resolved the issue. Further, insulting other editors in what could otherwise have been a civil discussion, does little to improve the project. HW's latest reversion[4] of User:Cyclopia was again, without discussion , and is begining to look a lot like his personal opinion is more important that that of any other editor. His latest reversion summary states "rv, remove unsourced list containing BLP violations. If you're not willing to thoroughly check, source, and correct the list, don't restore it)", and as the individuals are sourced to the film itself, I will go through the information personally to make sure the listed individuals are the ones credited as being in the documantary. And the simple and courteous solution is that if the wikilinks are to the wrong person, I will correct the link. If there is no article on a listed individual, I will unlink the name. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 01:33, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup

Going through them one by one and checking for history or Wikipedia articles, I found ONLY 5 that were improperly wikilinked. Was that so hard to do?

Monique Alexander - pornographic actress and nude model

Joanna Angel - alternative pornographic actress and director and writer of adult films.

Andrew Blake - American adult film director and producer.

Ashley Blue - American pornographic actress.

Cindy Crawford - American pornographic actress,

Jonni Darkko - pornographic actor and director.

Sophie Dee - British pornographic actress

Jeffrey Douglas - Canadian actor (not porn actor or porn director)

Erik Everhard - Canadian pornographic actor and director

Manuel Ferrara - French pornographic actor and adult film director

Jada Fire - American pornographic actress

Jesse Jane - American pornographic actress and model

Kimberly Kane - American pornographic actress and director

Aiden Kelly - poet and the author of books (not a porn actor)

Skeeter Kerkove - American pornographic actor and director

Dr. Marty Klein - American sex therapist,

Lorelei Lee - American wrestler (not the porn actress[5])

Miles Long - American pornographic director, actor, & cinematographer

Lexi Love - American pornographic actress

Rick Masters no article

Sharon Mitchell - Director of the Adult Industry Medical Health Care Foundation

Pat Myne - American pornographic actor and director

Adrianna Nicole - American pornographic actress

Gia Paloma - American pornographic actress

Chelsie Rae - American pornographic actress

Ava Rose - American pornographic actress

Claudia Rossi - Slovak pornographic actress

Alex Sanders - veteran pornographic actor

Julie Silver - American folk musician

Sierra Sinn - American pornographic actress

Karen Stagliano - American pornographic actress

Bobbi Starr - American pornographic actress

Johnny Thrust - American pornographic actor

Sandee Westgate - adult model.

All but the struck 5 may be verified/sourced to the onscreen film credits as being IN the documentary. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 02:10, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Modified "Interviewees" section to be returned to the article... cleaned up, properly wikilinked, and set as prose per WP:MOSFILM#Cast to include identifying contextual background on the individuals:

Among the film's many interviewees are 2006 AVN Award winner Audrey Hollander, former porn star and Director of the Adult Industry Medical Health Care Foundation Dr. Sharon Mitchell, stripper-turned-porn star/director Belladonna, as well as Katja Kassin, Otto Bauer, Sasha Grey, Mia Rose, Nina Hartley, John Stagliano, Roxy Deville, and filmmaker Ed Powers. Other credited interviewees include American sex therapist Dr. Marty Klein, American pornographic actors/directors Joanna Angel, Jonni Darkko, Kimberly Kane, Skeeter Kerkove, Miles Long, and Pat Myne, Canadian pornographic actor and director Erik Everhard, French pornographic actor and director Manuel Ferrara, American porn actresses Monique Alexander, Ashley Blue, Cindy Crawford, Jada Fire, Jesse Jane, Lexi Love, Adrianna Nicole, Gia Paloma, Chelsie Rae, Ava Rose, Sierra Sinn, Karen Stagliano, and Bobbi Starr, Slovak pornographic actress Claudia Rossi, British pornographic actress Sophie Dee, American porn actors Alex Sanders, and Johnny Thrust, adult model Sandee Westgate, and American porn producer/director Andrew Blake.

Sure wasn't too difficult to improve. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 02:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Just coming to this as an un-involved editor. I agree that it is perfectly appropriate to include a list of subjects interviewed for the film. Indeed, I can't imagine a rational reason to intentionally remove such a list without attempting to source/improve it first. Simply look for sourcing, cite the list, modify it if need be-- This is just standard practice for any contributor of content to Wikipedia. Though such work seems to be beyond some people-- very few people, actually-- Michael has taken up the task and done a good job. Though I'm not interested enough in the article to join in on the editing, I recommend going with the version worked out here on the talk page. Dekkappai (talk) 05:44, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Per WP:DISAMBIG the correction of the few mis-linked names would have been the far more preferred option and could easily have been done by anyone, specially as the removed information represented only a few of the many credited individuals[6] who were interviewed for their insights into the industry. Perhaps his repeated removal[7][8][9][10] of all those listed might have been because he simply wished others to be aware that a few were mis-linked... even though yes, per WP:DISAMBIG, he could have made the simple corections himself. But the corrections are now done, and per WP:MOSFILM, the partial list has been converted into prose that offers contextual information to the reader. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 18:11, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

References